What do you think of the Atari 2600+ at the moment...

[Ben from Plaion]

11 minutes ago, Defender_2600 said:

 

If a wired version isn't possible, an alternative would be to use AA (or AAA) batteries like the Atari Flashback CX40 does, as well as Xbox 360 and Xbox One controllers, etc. These batteries will always be available. Just a thought.

Looked into this, there is not enough room internally for replaceable batteries, would require a change to the shape of the Joystick base and that's a no from me.

[+bent_pin]

5 minutes ago, Ben from Plaion said:

Looked into this, there is not enough room internally for replaceable batteries, would require a change to the shape of the Joystick base and that's a no from me.

I'd just use a standard size lithium pack and add a connector so it can be changed out when it eventually gives out. The right type of BMS will allow the controller to be used while it's charging.

[Ben from Plaion]

Just now, bent_pin said:

I'd just use a standard size lithium pack and add a connector so it can be changed out when it eventually gives out. The right type of BMS will allow the controller to be used while it's charging.

Yes, of course, interestingly I get fed best practice guidance on stuff like this, this relates to regulatory bodies guidelines,  in the case of CX78+ and CX40+ wireless controllers we had to ensure the internal battery packs are socketed and not soldered for this reason.

[+bent_pin]

12 minutes ago, Ben from Plaion said:

this relates to regulatory bodies guidelines,  in the case of CX78+ and CX40+ wireless controllers we had to ensure the internal battery packs are socketed and not soldered for this reason.

I'm outside of that area and do not get exposed to those guidelines. It's nice to see that they've caught up with standards of repairability. 

[Ben from Plaion]

8 minutes ago, bent_pin said:

I'm outside of that area and do not get exposed to those guidelines. It's nice to see that they've caught up with standards of repairability. 

Sometimes the beaurocracy irritates me if it looks spurious, but in the case of repairability with guidance on socketed over soldered battery packs it's a no brainer

[+bent_pin]

2 minutes ago, Ben from Plaion said:

Sometimes the beaurocracy irritates me if it looks spurious, but in the case of repairability with guidance on socketed over soldered battery packs it's a no brainer

Same with the use of USB to power devices. So much nicer that having to break out the old box o'dongles.

[Ben from Plaion]

2 minutes ago, bent_pin said:

Same with the use of USB to power devices. So much nicer that having to break out the old box o'dongles.

Yeah exactly I get a little bit of heat with not including a power brick with the consoles, but my opinion is the ubiquity of USB power...it's totally standard on virtually all TVs makes it again a no brainer

[+bent_pin]

5 minutes ago, Ben from Plaion said:

Yeah exactly I get a little bit of heat with not including a power brick with the consoles, but my opinion is the ubiquity of USB power...it's totally standard on virtually all TVs makes it again a no brainer

Including a power brick with everything contributes to e-waste. People need to use them for multiple devices and unplug them when not in use to reduce energy consumption, IMHO.

[Bakasama]

12 hours ago, MarcinJ said:

Any chance to get CX40+ for left-handed guys like me? Especially wireless version would be great

There was an old issue of Atari Age that showed how to rewire a CX40 for left handed use. Now, I don't know CX40+es could be rewired the same way but it might be worth looking into.

[DhaemonX]

2 minutes ago, Bakasama said:

There was an old issue of Atari Age that showed how to rewire a CX40 for left handed use. Now, I don't know CX40+es could be rewired the same way but it might be worth looking into.

Left handed people? I thought that was a myth started by the Simpsons. 

[Ben from Plaion]

28 minutes ago, DhaemonX said:

Left handed people? I thought that was a myth started by the Simpsons. 

I googled it earlier today, around 10% of humans are left handed.

 

So popping that into the p&l forecasted unit sales gives me a sales volume that doesn't hit break even point.

 

Now this I think goes into sensitive area. If I had a total addressable market of say a modern day console where there are massive prospective sales that would cover costs of a left handed controller then you just do it. But if like the 2600+ 7800+ machines that are niche and have a raw profitability measure that is the basis of ensuring the continuation of bringing out new machines, games and accessories, profit negative products are rejected.

 

Having said that there is a somewhat intangible value of the good news of Atari releasing a left handed CX40+! 

Edited 19 hours ago by Ben from Plaion

[Ben from Plaion]

37 minutes ago, bent_pin said:

Including a power brick with everything contributes to e-waste. People need to use them for multiple devices and unplug them when not in use to reduce energy consumption, IMHO.

Yes indeed, it's a convenient fact that allows the ommision of power bricks that in the end leads to lower COGs and end consumer RRP.

 

I think that the inclusion of a power brick to 2600+ 7800+ would make me recommend to Atari that we raise the RRP 10 USD/Pound/Euro. It's clear that the pricing levels set down for A+ products has been well received and fiddling with this upwards ain't the best course of action in my opinion.

[shane857]

1 hour ago, Ben from Plaion said:

Looked into this, there is not enough room internally for replaceable batteries, would require a change to the shape of the Joystick base and that's a no from me.

I agree. All 'New' Atari joystick/controllers should keep the same shape and structure of the originals, if possible.

[+Fred_M]

13 hours ago, Bakasama said:

There was an old issue of Atari Age that showed how to rewire a CX40 for left handed use. Now, I don't know CX40+es could be rewired the same way but it might be worth looking into.

I have opened the CX40+. The original CX40 has (old fanshioned) contacts inside and each wire has its own connector. It was possible for the user to simply change the positions of the wires on the PCB. The CX40+ is more modern and uses one connector for all wires. That makes it a bit more difficult to change the order of the wires but it is still a fairly simple job. The easiest way is to cut the wires (that corresponds with the directions of the joystick) a centimeter before the connector and attach them to the wire in the connector of the direction 90 degrees to the left. In simple words: direction "up" must be connected to direction "left", left to down, down to right and right to up. If people need some help doing this, I can make a small tutorial.

[Ben from Plaion]

11 minutes ago, shane857 said:

I agree. All 'New' Atari joystick/controllers should keep the same shape and structure of the originals, if possible.

It's vital.

 

Having said that I wouldn't mind a crack at a CX78+S...keep everything the same but move fire button 2 position up a bit to be diagonally in line with button 1 and the Atari logo.

 

Then make both buttons protrude a bit higher similar to a NES pad, maybe redesign the two fire buttons to be a bit closer together as well.

 

 

[DEANJIMMY]

5 hours ago, Ben from Plaion said:

@bent_pin Spent half hour looking at switches today, heavy resistance (current prototype), Sanwa switches and very light (old prototype)

The one on the left might be very solid but the one in the middle would let you play faster🤗

The one on the right might play nice but would break before the other two 🤔

The Micro Händler and Multifunction joysticks had similar switches. They play nice but I replaced the switches in the mean time 😊

It's nice to see how the switches were placed on the right board (not 90 degrees), so you do not have to bend the levers like in my old sticks🤙

 

I would expect an Atari joystick with micro switches will be very well received. Recently a friend asked if the CX40+ has got micro switches, as he is going to mod a CX40 otherwise 😅

[phoenixdownita]

6 hours ago, Ben from Plaion said:

@bent_pin Spent half hour looking at switches today, heavy resistance (current prototype), Sanwa switches and very light (old prototype)

You do know there are alternative “micro switches”.

 

For example the Neogeo cd pad uses “button sized” micro switches (they are really just clickety “domes” inside the plastic, I opened a handful that had issues due to oxidation) … you could argue the Xbox one and series controllers dpad are using micro switches even if those are also “just” more clickety domes on a piece of transparent tape …. meta point is we could get clickety action on an upgraded cx40+ and cx78+ with different implementations of “micro switches”.

 

But the ones you chose are what us old timers would most likely expect, so told there may be space for intermediate clicketyness options at cheaper price points.

Edited 18 hours ago by phoenixdownita

[Atari_Dan]

I was walking the dog pondering how to expand the CX40 design concept into a two button ambidextrous design.  Here is my quick rendering.   The scale is a little off.   Also, I did a quick cut-n-past to add a d-pad for the heck of it.  IMHO, it's a little wonky with the d-pad.   

 

Also, there was thoughts about CX40+S and many permutations.  I suggest the CX40+ is a family line.   And, they keep getting numbers like CX42+, CX44+, CX48+ 

[LynxJagLunatic]

6 hours ago, Ben from Plaion said:

I googled it earlier today, around 10% of humans are left handed.

 

So popping that into the p&l forecasted unit sales gives me a sales volume that doesn't hit break even point.

 

Now this I think goes into sensitive area. If I had a total addressable market of say a modern day console where there are massive prospective sales that would cover costs of a left handed controller then you just do it. But if like the 2600+ 7800+ machines that are niche and have a raw profitability measure that is the basis of ensuring the continuation of bringing out new machines, games and accessories, profit negative products are rejected.

 

Having said that there is a somewhat intangible value of the good news of Atari releasing a left handed CX40+! 

I am left handed and I was so stoked when I first saw the Lynx. I thought wow I can play it left handed. I think I played it left handed maybe a dozen times in the last 30 years. I’m so used to my controllers being right handed I just don’t notice it. Same with playing guitar. I have a harder time finding left handed guitars so I just play right handed.

[NicodemusLegend]

19 hours ago, Ben from Plaion said:

I googled it earlier today, around 10% of humans are left handed.

 

So popping that into the p&l forecasted unit sales gives me a sales volume that doesn't hit break even point.

 

Now this I think goes into sensitive area. If I had a total addressable market of say a modern day console where there are massive prospective sales that would cover costs of a left handed controller then you just do it. But if like the 2600+ 7800+ machines that are niche and have a raw profitability measure that is the basis of ensuring the continuation of bringing out new machines, games and accessories, profit negative products are rejected.

 

Having said that there is a somewhat intangible value of the good news of Atari releasing a left handed CX40+! 

FWIW, as a left-handed person, the idea of having to use a differently-configured joystick perplexes me. *Maybe* I'd have found it easier to use a button that was placed in the left corner rather than the right, if that was an option all those years ago, but years of accomodating the joystick that exists make that pretty second-nature, and having to relearn that would, itself, be more frustrating.