CXSTICK note from Atari

[TrogdarRobusto]

Just wanted to let the community know that we (Atari, Plaion & Retro Games) are seeing and collecting all the reports of issues and questions related to the joystick and passing them on to the product team. We expect it will take some time for that team to come to a full understanding of the situation and any potential resolution(s), but we will come back to the community with their findings. Retro Games is in the engineering seat on this one. 

Please note, I am not involved in the day-to-day work of the product team, so I am not the right person to engage with specifics. The product team is monitoring this forum for intel, and they may chime in or ask questions.

One additional note, the Atari Classic Joystick that was created for the Atari VCS is compatible with THE400Mini. Plugging it in will unlock two additional games that benefit from that Joystick's paddle/twist functionality. (Super Breakout and Castle Crisis)

If you have a Classic Joystick at home, you can try that as an alternative. It has fewer buttons, so there will no doubt be some remapping involved. I am not suggesting that this is the long-term solution, or trying to generate additional sales. I am just raising it as a related topic and curious to get some feedback on it from this community.

[+Fred_M]

7 minutes ago, TrogdarRobusto said:

One additional note, the Atari Classic Joystick that was created for the Atari VCS is compatible with THE400Mini. Plugging it in will unlock two additional games that benefit from that Joystick's paddle/twist functionality. (Super Breakout and Castle Crisis)

 

Thank you for the update!👍

 

Sadly the Atari VCS joystick is not available in Europe....

[ErikDavid]

I appreciate Atari's acknowledgement of the CXSTICK's issues. 

[TrogdarRobusto]

18 minutes ago, Fred_M said:

 

Thank you for the update!👍

 

Sadly the Atari VCS joystick is not available in Europe....

I may have to bring a few cases to Gamescom

[JetmanUK]

Thanks for the update.

 

As someone who had a very bad joystick I was left with no other choice than to return the whole package, I will watch this and see how it develops.

 

I am glad that the issue is being acknowledged and hope we can all move away from the narrative refered to in the Metal Jesus video.

 

Good news. 😊

Edited April 12 by JetmanUK

[+Fred_M]

My joystick is very bad too. As an Atari 8-bit user since 1985 I can honestly say that this is the worst (and most expensive) joystick I have ever had 😢

 

As the Atari 8-bit computers have a large and enthousiastic user group worldwide (and on AtariAge) I can not understand why RGL/Plaion/Atari did not collaborate with "us". So many mistakes could have been avoided. Sorry, I am Dutch and Dutch people are direct. This product lacks passion.

Edited April 12 by Fred_M

[Metal Jesus]

25 minutes ago, JetmanUK said:

I am glad that the issue is being acknowledged and hope we can all move away from the narrative refered to in the Metal Jesus video.

Is this specifically the Bruce Lee portion of my video? Glad to hear it's being looked at. 👍

[JetmanUK]

Just now, Metal Jesus said:

Is this specifically the Bruce Lee portion of my video? Glad to hear it's being looked at. 👍

The part where you were told that you were using the joystick incorrectly, which of course you were not.

[+Fred_M]

Just now, JetmanUK said:

The part where you were told that you were using the joystick incorrectly, which of course you were not.

Yeah that was really ridiculous 😆 But (I am being honest here) those youtubers got their consoles for free, I was not expecting unbiased reviews.

[Metal Jesus]

4 minutes ago, Fred_M said:

Yeah that was really ridiculous 😆 But (I am being honest here) those youtubers got their consoles for free, I was not expecting unbiased reviews.

I always try to give an honest review. I've been doing reviews for almost 25 years now (long before YouTube) and it's your audience that you are beholden to, and not a marketing department that sends you something for free. That said, I do try to be professional, which is why I reached out for comment on the joystick before I made my video to see if they knew about it or had a solution.

[suspicious_milk]

The Atari Gamestation Pro Joystick has incredibly similar directional issues.  It can also be mitigated by physically interfering with the base/shaft.

 

No YouTubers called this out & it seems largely ignored.  Most users tend to simply use a modern controller & forget about it.

 

To my knowledge; it's not been recognized or addressed in any way from MyArcade.

 

Curious why the different treatment from the community for pretty much the same issue?

[JetmanUK]

1 hour ago, suspicious_milk said:

The Atari Gamestation Pro Joystick has incredibly similar directional issues.  It can also be mitigated by physically interfering with the base/shaft.

 

No YouTubers called this out & it seems largely ignored.  Most users tend to simply use a modern controller & forget about it.

 

To my knowledge; it's not been recognized or addressed in any way from MyArcade.

 

Curious why the different treatment from the community for pretty much the same issue?

I personally never had an issue like that with the GSP joysticks, the only issue I have had with them is that the lag when used wirelessly is awful. I use them via USB cable and they are fine. Perhaps I got lucky, like some have with the CXSTICK. 

Edited April 13 by JetmanUK

[+Torq]

2 hours ago, suspicious_milk said:

The Atari Gamestation Pro Joystick has incredibly similar directional issues.

 

16 minutes ago, JetmanUK said:

I personally never had an issue like that with the GSP joysticks,

 

I found the Gamestation Pro joysticks were more prone to simply getting "stuck" (physically, it seemed) when doing diagonals, as opposed to accidentally mis/not-registering.  River Raid was almost unplayable on the sticks that came with my first GSP (I have two, same with the THE400 Mini, one each for the bi panel in the family room, one for the main panel in my "den").  The sticks that came with the second GSP weren't nearly as bad, but still got "stuck" occasionally.

 

Since the GSP has a simple control scheme (stick + two buttons), pretty much any USB controller works fine with it.

 

I've been lucky with my two CXSTICKs (once I adjusted to not keep hitting the ring accidentally), but I can easily see them being issues for others - and am still working on coming up with a custom stick to replace them (I still need to buy a couple if anyone bought extras and is willing to sell them vs. return them).

[suspicious_milk]

4 hours ago, JetmanUK said:

I personally never had an issue like that with the GSP joysticks, the only issue I have had with them is that the lag when used wirelessly is awful. I use them via USB cable and they are fine. Perhaps I got lucky, like some have with the CXSTICK. 

Lol, let me know how far you get in Ms Pac-Man 😝

 

Yeah, hopefully your sticks are okay.  But I'm certain it's a manufacturing flaw.  It's more pronounced in certain games & like the CXStick it may have some differences depending on how vigorous one handles it?

[mimo]

Returned  my 400 mini, I'm not paying £100 for something that is this poor.

Atari were all over replies to issues with the 2600+ but until now total silence on the 400 mini issues.

Really not good enough 

[PMFonck]

To be honest I never expected much from the CX40 stick anyway. Back in the days almost everyone would switch out their stick from third parties like Wico, Suzo etc. 
What I would really like is the 400 mini to be less picky, or more configurable on the USB input side. That would really solve a lot of frustration. 
Like right now having an 8bitdo wireless adapter in usb1 the cx40 won't fit next to it in usb2. So if I could designate controller port to usb3 would help. Just an example. 

[Marc Oberhäuser]

Quite late feedback. I have since sent my Mini back to Amazon. For this proud price (most mini consoles are significantly cheaper), the system simply offers too little. Too little testing (-> poor hardware that should never have passed QA), loveless presentation (the interface is rather mediocre, no manuals etc.), very mediocre games (and again disastrous QA -> partly wrong or hacked files) and generally an input lag that I found annoying (which didn't improve even with various tricks). The great case and the beautiful packaging alone are simply not enough.
I will follow closely how Atari addresses the problems with the manufacturer and how the buyers are compensated (i.e. -> better software, replacement of the controllers, etc.), maybe I will then get the system again. If not, I'll eventually buy a used system cheaply on eBay to put on the shelf with the other mini consoles. Too bad.

[Sean_1970]

18 hours ago, suspicious_milk said:

Curious why the different treatment from the community for pretty much the same issue?

If I had to guess a large part would be down to this being the first mini console to feature 8-bit computer titles, so more interest than yet another 2600 compilation console. Anectodally it sounds like the quality of various flashback machines so expectations for the GSPro were probably not that high. Lastly coming hot on the heels of the 2600+, which showed better attention to QA and garnered a positive response, expectations were likely I higher. I can safely say that after my experience with the 2600+ I pre-ordered my 400Mini and an extra controller (the latter having since been cancelled), without hesitation. Without that experience I probably would have ignored it initially - after all I can play a lot of 8-bit computer games on my Evercade VS courtesy of three C64 compilations.

[JetmanUK]

It has to be said that Ben/Plaion have given excellent support and a constant presence here since the launch of the 2600 Plus.

 

It is true that the Plus had a much better launch, it being an all round more polished product, but shortcomings that were there were quickly acknowledged and positive action via beta/experimental firmware released with a high level of engagement and input form the community. Basically, done the right way. 

 

Now with the 400 Mini it was too quiet for too long, just one Retro Games/Atari representative saying we hear you, we will look into this within a week of launch would have made a difference.

 

The comment which was given to Metal Jesus only served to anger people, the old 'you're using it wrong' really pissed me off personally, I can't be alone on that. 

 

I am glad that a presence is here now and some acknowledgement of possible action may happen. For many it is too little too late as a lot of units will have been returned. I still wish success to this product and I think errors can and probably will be corrected. 

 

Edited April 14 by JetmanUK

[r_chase]

I'll be completely honest and say that we really put too much expectations on RGL and Atari this time around. I'm glad Atari themselves are acknowledging the problems with the CX ting.

While I still wish Atari would perk up and make a Speccy Next clone or anything related to ZX Spectrum, I now feel we went overboard on the hype train on THE400 MINI because there was obviously some problems with the system. Granted, RGL will fix them eventually. Maybe with even a hardware revision. Still, I now think this entire ting was overhyped and we should think critically next time before going all in and then later asking for a heaven-forsaken refund.

[JetmanUK]

1 hour ago, r_chase said:

I'll be completely honest and say that we really put too much expectations on RGL and Atari this time around. I'm glad Atari themselves are acknowledging the problems with the CX ting.

While I still wish Atari would perk up and make a Speccy Next clone or anything related to ZX Spectrum, I now feel we went overboard on the hype train on THE400 MINI because there was obviously some problems with the system. Granted, RGL will fix them eventually. Maybe with even a hardware revision. Still, I now think this entire ting was overhyped and we should think critically next time before going all in and then later asking for a heaven-forsaken refund.

I dunno man, expecting a joystick to work wasn't that high an expectation. 🤷🏻

 

I agree that I'd love more Spectrum products though. 🤟🏻 Retro released a C64 and Amiga so you never know. 

Edited April 14 by JetmanUK

[+Fred_M]

On 4/13/2024 at 5:56 PM, suspicious_milk said:

Curious why the different treatment from the community for pretty much the same issue?

 

My thoughts.... the atari 8-bit computer community is a different one compared to the 2600. Take a look at the 8-bit computer forum here on AtariAge. Most of the people there are serious and passionate users. They have been using their 8-bit computers for a very long time and are still creating new games, hardware pheripherals and magazines. These people are proud of their Atari 8-bit home computers and are not necessarily a fan of the 2600/GSPRO consoles. For example, I never had a 2600 or a 7800 as a kid, but I did have an 800XL. So I would not say there is only "one" community.

 

These Atari 8-bit computer enthousiasts know their stuff and are probably not the target audience of the 400 mini (the GSPRO and the 2600+). That is probably why you do not see many of them in this part of the forum. But these people know their stuff and know what the Atari 8-bit computers are capable of. It is hard to see that RGL/Plaion/Atari made a product that does not show the full potential of the Atari 8-bit computer line. Simple testing would have showed that: the joystick is not responding correctly, the placement of the function keys in the ring of the joystick is not a very good idea, MULE has some bugs, the display does not show enough of the available screen, (virtual) keys are missing on a connected USB-keyboard, strange mapping of the keys of an USB keyboard, stereo Pokey is not supported (the Atari800 emulator does support this), artifacting is not supported and controlling 5200 games is very difficult with the CXstick.

 

The Atari 8-bit computer community is a small community, but a very active community. If they don't like something they will say it out loud 😉

Edited April 14 by Fred_M

[+remowilliams]

2 hours ago, JetmanUK said:

I agree that I'd love more Spectrum products though. 🤟🏻 Retro released a C64 and Amiga so you never know. 

Since this is a stick thread, I'll point out that I discovered that theC64 mini controller is truly abominable.

 

While the400 stick is flawed, I refused to use that theC64 piece of crap stick for more than about a minute.

 

A key difference though is that I paid about $75 less for theC64 - so just throwing the controller in the trash is a more 'acceptable' solution...

 

9 minutes ago, Fred_M said:

These Atari 8-bit computer enthousiasts know their stuff and are probably not the target audience of the 400 mini (the gSPRO and the 2600+).

Definitely a huge part of the reception overall.

 

Some folks were tripping over themselves to ignore/excuse 2600+ flaws, here for the400 not so much.

[rocco188]

I have the "The C64 Maxi". A lot of wishes were fulfilled during the patch cycles. REU (memory expansion) as an example which was a big one. Issues (bugs) were resolved and it kept getting better.

 

I'm not saying all of your peoples concerns will be addressed. They didn't fulfill every desire. But if the past is any guide they are probably going to address the issues that cause problems (bugs) and attempt to satisfy a lot of what you want/wish to have happen.

 

I don't know how they will solve the cx stick issue though.

 

 

[WozNYC]

On 4/14/2024 at 12:29 PM, Fred_M said:

the display does not show enough of the available screen 

This *really* bugs me.  Even with display height set to 212 and vertical offset set to 14, it still isn't enough.

You can clearly see this when using certain utilities or 16MB hard disk images. The text at the top of the screen gets cut off.

Edited April 23 by WozNYC
Added picture.