CX78+, 7800 carts delayed

[DEANJIMMY]

1 hour ago, yamazaki said:

Received my PAL 7800 rereleases yesterday.  There may be a palette issue with Fatal Run - stage 7 displays almost entirely black and is unplayable (as I cant see the road!).  This is the same on experimental firmware r3 and r4.  Can anyone else confirm this (or could it just be my TV)? 

 

 

Never got that far.

Hopefully the palette could be adjusted only for this game. Many games had wrong colors and look fine now. If we change the palette in general, I am afraid many other games will look strange (like Choplifter) or not nice (like Commando) or ugly (like Xevious) again🤔

Maybe a special debug load could kick Fatal Run in level 7 after start, so we could all compare?

[TwiliteZoner]

It looks like Amazon in the US is being pushed back to late July for the CX78+.

[+Intellivision Master]

21 hours ago, Ben from Plaion said:

There are some announcements planned for August for future releases.

This is great.  Looking forward to it.

[The Dubious One]

On 5/16/2024 at 12:34 AM, SuperZapperRecharge said:

Don't worry it's a loudmouth calling a noob a loudmouth. These forums need to be more understanding to new members.

 

I get that some new members here are frustrated at the bumbling of Atari. This is one of the few places on the internet that they can state their opinion and I gladly welcome everyone as long as we are all reasonable. 

 

By the way I'm a noob too, posting a lot since the 2600+ was released. Glad there is such a great community here.

Newbie here, and I agree with you completely.  It's almost like Atari wants to stay niche and just cater to a their existing customer base.  I've been extremely interested in buying the 2600+ for months, but when I see that literally almost everything related to the system has been sold out for months on end, it makes me think twice about wasting my money on something that isn't actively being supported.  It feels like they manufactured what they did and have plans to invest anymore money to grow their customer base.  Doesn't make sense to me, but I've been waiting for months for things to change and nothing ever does.  

[+LS650]

9 hours ago, TwiliteZoner said:

It looks like Amazon in the US is being pushed back to late July for the CX78+.

Really?  Amazon Canada shipped my CX-78+ a couple of days ago, and it's out for delivery sometime this afternoon.

[TwiliteZoner]

10 minutes ago, LS650 said:

Really?  Amazon Canada shipped my CX-78+ a couple of days ago, and it's out for delivery sometime this afternoon.

That's what the email said. Maybe that's just an automated date and the actual delivery date won't be so far off. I guess I'll find out soon enough.

[John Stamos Mullet]

32 minutes ago, TwiliteZoner said:

That's what the email said. Maybe that's just an automated date and the actual delivery date won't be so far off. I guess I'll find out soon enough.

It may be based on when you ordered, compared to others who ordered ahead of you. 
 

I ordered direct from Atari, and I still haven’t received a shipment confirmation email yet, but I also ordered a few days after the pre-sale started.

[+H454]

I ordered a set of the CX78s on may 21 - during there sale Atari.com. I got three separate shipments so far.

I got an email on the 20th notifying me of shipment for the controllers from Azusa, CA.

Tracking says delivery by 26 at 9pm.

 

I don't care about the delays, I'm more annoyed about my $31.58 shipping charge because everything shipped in four different boxes at four different times.

[+jeremiahjt]

3 hours ago, The Dubious One said:

Newbie here, and I agree with you completely.  It's almost like Atari wants to stay niche and just cater to a their existing customer base.  I've been extremely interested in buying the 2600+ for months, but when I see that literally almost everything related to the system has been sold out for months on end, it makes me think twice about wasting my money on something that isn't actively being supported.  It feels like they manufactured what they did and have plans to invest anymore money to grow their customer base.  Doesn't make sense to me, but I've been waiting for months for things to change and nothing ever does.  

They just released six brand new products for the 2600+, how is that not "being actively supported" by Atari?

[TwiliteZoner]

Updates on Amazon. Now showing delivery for the 9th of July. 
 

You can order 1 now for delivery expected July 5th thru the 9th.

[Trebor]

17 hours ago, yamazaki said:

Received my PAL 7800 rereleases yesterday.  There may be a palette issue with Fatal Run - stage 7 displays almost entirely black and is unplayable (as I cant see the road!).  This is the same on experimental firmware r3 and r4.  Can anyone else confirm this (or could it just be my TV)? 

 

Codes jumping to the various Checkpoints are in the spoiler below.

 

Can it please be confirmed which Checkpoint the screen appears as it does above?

 

Spoiler

Checkpoint #1    Eagle1 (Beat 1-4)
Checkpoint #2    Zebra (Beat 5-8)
Checkpoint #3    Lynx (Beat 9-12)
Checkpoint #4    Hornet8 (Beat 13-16)
Checkpoint #5    Dolphin (Beat 17-20)
Checkpoint #6    Gorillas (Beat 21-24)
Checkpoint #7    Turtle (Beat 25-28)
WIN GAME (Beat 29-32)

 

From the look of the capture, I'm torn between it being an emulation issue rather than a palette issue exclusively, due to how odd the mountains appear; a speckled design that does not seem to be a part of the game, and the road completely missing, or a combination of factors, emulation issue as well as how a palette value luminance may be interpreted on the display being utilized.

 

Here are Checkpoints 5, 6, 7 under PAL:

 

Though the road should be clearly visible, the surrounding area, for Checkpoint 5, the very dark green, is palette value $10 for PAL, which I can confirm two things:

 

1.  The $x0 value for any hue is the darkest luminance.  TV brightness* may need to be turned up to see it.  Though again, the road itself should still be clearly visible.

2.  No connection to Xevious palette item as that involved the $Fx range and not the $1x range.

 

Between the road being 'gone' and the odd speckled effect on the mountains, I do believe we may have an emulation issue item though, @raz0red, or something else is awry.

 

Perhaps after @yamazaki confirms which Checkpoint, another PAL user with Fatal Run may be able to test how the re-released version appears under their display.  A check with an original retail release version of Fatal Run would be useful too, again, from a PAL user.

 

@Ben from Plaion would anyone in house be able to try the Checkpoints listed above in the spoiler under the PAL re-release cart and see if they can duplicate the result?

 

*Note: For my Samsung TV, I had to turn off "Contrast Enhancement" under the Picture --> Expert Settings, for the darkest luminance values to not appear a bit too dark involving both 2600 and 7800 titles.

 

^EDIT: I tested all the checkpoints with my original NTSC cart, and all appears perfect under 2600+.

[kjames_s_2000]

1 hour ago, jeremiahjt said:

They just released six brand new products for the 2600+, how is that not "being actively supported" by Atari?

There has also been active user engagement/testing on a revised cartridge port, a revised main board and a newly sourced paddle potentiometer for the 2600+.  That all says "actively supported" to me.  No product is perfect, but I consider the plus to be a pretty good value (and I'm a bit of a cheapskate without a ton of disposable income).  It's made it easier than ever to break out my old cartridges and have plenty of fun in 30 minute increments.  Can't wait for the August announcement hinted at.  Most likely I'll be making a pre-order or two.

[+LS650]

Woo hoo - just arrived...

[JetmanUK]

10 hours ago, Trebor said:

 

Codes jumping to the various Checkpoints are in the spoiler below.

 

Can it please be confirmed which Checkpoint the screen appears as it does above?

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Checkpoint #1    Eagle1 (Beat 1-4)
Checkpoint #2    Zebra (Beat 5-8)
Checkpoint #3    Lynx (Beat 9-12)
Checkpoint #4    Hornet8 (Beat 13-16)
Checkpoint #5    Dolphin (Beat 17-20)
Checkpoint #6    Gorillas (Beat 21-24)
Checkpoint #7    Turtle (Beat 25-28)
WIN GAME (Beat 29-32)

 

From the look of the capture, I'm torn between it being an emulation issue rather than a palette issue exclusively, due to how odd the mountains appear; a speckled design that does not seem to be a part of the game, and the road completely missing, or a combination of factors, emulation issue as well as how a palette value luminance may be interpreted on the display being utilized.

 

Here are Checkpoints 5, 6, 7 under PAL:

 

Though the road should be clearly visible, the surrounding area, for Checkpoint 5, the very dark green, is palette value $10 for PAL, which I can confirm two things:

 

1.  The $x0 value for any hue is the darkest luminance.  TV brightness* may need to be turned up to see it.  Though again, the road itself should still be clearly visible.

2.  No connection to Xevious palette item as that involved the $Fx range and not the $1x range.

 

Between the road being 'gone' and the odd speckled effect on the mountains, I do believe we may have an emulation issue item though, @raz0red, or something else is awry.

 

Perhaps after @yamazaki confirms which Checkpoint, another PAL user with Fatal Run may be able to test how the re-released version appears under their display.  A check with an original retail release version of Fatal Run would be useful too, again, from a PAL user.

 

@Ben from Plaion would anyone in house be able to try the Checkpoints listed above in the spoiler under the PAL re-release cart and see if they can duplicate the result?

 

*Note: For my Samsung TV, I had to turn off "Contrast Enhancement" under the Picture --> Expert Settings, for the darkest luminance values to not appear a bit too dark involving both 2600 and 7800 titles.

 

^EDIT: I tested all the checkpoints with my original NTSC cart, and all appears perfect under 2600+.

My 2600 Plus is on the latest firmware and dumper, the new cart slot and I have the new release PAL Fatal Run. 

 

Checkpoint 5

The roadside is a very dark green, but the sky is grey, to me it looks like a time of day/weather colour choice by the devs.

 

 

Checkpoint 6

All good here

 

Checkpoint 7

It's fine here.

 

All seem fine to me. 

 

 

HOWEVER...

I just watched a YouTube play through video and I saw the moutains that are in the OP's photo at 26 minutes, but in different colours. I wonder if he means the 7th overall section? So we would need to play to that section within Checkpoint 2 to check the issue out. Take a look at this, could @yamazaki confirm which stage has the probem?

 

 

This looks like an emulation issue to me, the colours seem ok.

 

Edited June 24 by JetmanUK
Possibly looking at the wrong part of the game

[Ben from Plaion]

12 hours ago, Trebor said:

 

Codes jumping to the various Checkpoints are in the spoiler below.

 

Can it please be confirmed which Checkpoint the screen appears as it does above?

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Checkpoint #1    Eagle1 (Beat 1-4)
Checkpoint #2    Zebra (Beat 5-8)
Checkpoint #3    Lynx (Beat 9-12)
Checkpoint #4    Hornet8 (Beat 13-16)
Checkpoint #5    Dolphin (Beat 17-20)
Checkpoint #6    Gorillas (Beat 21-24)
Checkpoint #7    Turtle (Beat 25-28)
WIN GAME (Beat 29-32)

 

From the look of the capture, I'm torn between it being an emulation issue rather than a palette issue exclusively, due to how odd the mountains appear; a speckled design that does not seem to be a part of the game, and the road completely missing, or a combination of factors, emulation issue as well as how a palette value luminance may be interpreted on the display being utilized.

 

Here are Checkpoints 5, 6, 7 under PAL:

 

Though the road should be clearly visible, the surrounding area, for Checkpoint 5, the very dark green, is palette value $10 for PAL, which I can confirm two things:

 

1.  The $x0 value for any hue is the darkest luminance.  TV brightness* may need to be turned up to see it.  Though again, the road itself should still be clearly visible.

2.  No connection to Xevious palette item as that involved the $Fx range and not the $1x range.

 

Between the road being 'gone' and the odd speckled effect on the mountains, I do believe we may have an emulation issue item though, @raz0red, or something else is awry.

 

Perhaps after @yamazaki confirms which Checkpoint, another PAL user with Fatal Run may be able to test how the re-released version appears under their display.  A check with an original retail release version of Fatal Run would be useful too, again, from a PAL user.

 

@Ben from Plaion would anyone in house be able to try the Checkpoints listed above in the spoiler under the PAL re-release cart and see if they can duplicate the result?

 

*Note: For my Samsung TV, I had to turn off "Contrast Enhancement" under the Picture --> Expert Settings, for the darkest luminance values to not appear a bit too dark involving both 2600 and 7800 titles.

 

^EDIT: I tested all the checkpoints with my original NTSC cart, and all appears perfect under 2600+.

I can check it this afternoon.

[Ben from Plaion]

17 hours ago, The Dubious One said:

Newbie here, and I agree with you completely.  It's almost like Atari wants to stay niche and just cater to a their existing customer base.  I've been extremely interested in buying the 2600+ for months, but when I see that literally almost everything related to the system has been sold out for months on end, it makes me think twice about wasting my money on something that isn't actively being supported.  It feels like they manufactured what they did and have plans to invest anymore money to grow their customer base.  Doesn't make sense to me, but I've been waiting for months for things to change and nothing ever does.  

I can tell you that Atari and Plaion want to sell as much product to the consumer as possible.

 

What product/s and website are you refering to here please?

[John Stamos Mullet]

4 minutes ago, Ben from Plaion said:

I can tell you that Atari and Plaion want to sell as much product to the consumer as possible.

 

What product/s and website are you refering to here please?

lol, nothing quite like registering on a site to complain and troll about a product, and getting an immediate, cordial response from the literal product manager from the company you’re trying to trash…

[Trebor]

2 hours ago, Ben from Plaion said:

I can check it this afternoon.

Thank you, but mystery solved @Ben from Plaion and @raz0red.  It is definitely a display/brightness adjustment issue @yamazaki

 

Below is the level in question.  To reach it quickest, enter "EAGLE1" under Continue from the title screen and play until reaching the 4th Track in that set. 

 

Technically, it could be considered Track 8.  This is how it should appear under PAL:

 

 

Here is the palette breakdown for the questionable areas:

Mountains/Background = $30, $34, $4A
Road = $00, $01
Ground = $00

 

By design, this is an extremely dark track.  Most of the ground and road is absolute Black, $00.  Part of the road is the next to darkest grayscale value, $01, and even part of the mountains utilizes the darkest luminance for Hue $3x range - $30.

 

This is neither a palette or emulation accuracy issue.  The display will need adjusting to see it proper.  Whether it is additional picture processing feature(s) turned off, or/and increasing the brightness.

[JetmanUK]

22 minutes ago, Trebor said:

Thank you, but mystery solved @Ben from Plaion and @raz0red.  It is definitely a display/brightness adjustment issue @yamazaki

 

Below is the level in question.  To reach it quickest, enter "EAGLE1" under Continue from the title screen and play until reaching the 4th Track in that set. 

 

Technically, it could be considered Track 8.  This is how it appears under PAL:

 

 

Here is the palette breakdown for the questionable areas:

Mountains/Background = $30, $34, $4A
Road = $00, $01
Ground = $00

 

By design, this is an extremely dark track.  Most of the ground and road is absolute Black, $00.  Part of the road is the next to darkest grayscale value, $01, and even part of the mountains utilizes the darkest luminance for Hue 3 - $30.

 

This is neither a palette or emulation accuracy issue.  The display will need adjusting to see it proper.  Whether it is additional picture processing feature(s) turned off, or/and increasing the brightness.

Good to hear.

Out of interest, does it look similar in the NTSC version? Or did they choose very different colour schemes for this game?

Edited June 24 by JetmanUK

[+LS650]

On 6/21/2024 at 12:12 PM, Ben from Plaion said:

Did you notice that the thumbstick is not screwed in out of the box and instead is in a little plastic bag....that was a conscious decision.

Of course the thumbstick had to be included for authenticities sake but yeah I play dpad only with the CX78+. 

My CX-78+ actually came with two thumbsticks, each in a separate little Ziploc. 

Was there supposed to be only one stick included?  Hopefully no one else got shortchanged...

 

I tried a variety of 7800 games with it: Asteroids, DigDug, Ms Pacman, and Food Fight.  It seemed to work well. 

I have an original CX-78 that has some sort of intermittent connection: sometimes works for 5 minutes, then stops.

 

The new pad is comparable in look, feel, and response to the old one.  I think the buttons are slightly more 'clicky'.

Overall it may be a little better, but then my old gamepad is likely worn badly.

I found most games I prefer with the D-pad - but with Food Fight I found the stick actually helped a bit.

[JetmanUK]

2 minutes ago, LS650 said:

My CX-78+ actually came with two thumbsticks, each in a separate little Ziploc.  Was there supposed to be only one?  Hopefully no one else got shortchanged...

 

I tried a variety of 7800 games with it: Asteroids, DigDug, Ms Pacman, and Food Fight.  It seemed to work well. 

I have an original CX-78 that has some sort of intermittent connection: sometimes works for 5 minutes then stops.

The new new is comparable in look, feel, response.  Maybe a little better, but then the old gamepad is likely work badly.

I found most games I prefer with the D-pad - but with Food Fight I found the stick actually helped a bit.

Mine only came with one and I have not heard any talk of it coming with two, you got lucky!

Edited June 24 by JetmanUK

[Trebor]

1 hour ago, JetmanUK said:

Good to hear.

Out of interest, does it look similar in the NTSC version? Or did they choose very different colour schemes for this game?

It is very different. Here is the same track palette breakdown under NTSC:

Mountains/Background = $C3, $C4, $F6
Road = $05, $06
Ground = $D2

 

Below are the sets of tracks after entering EAGLE1 for both NTSC and PAL.

 

Track 1:

 

Track 2:

 

Track 3:

 

Track 4:

 

I'm thinking this is very much unintentional, a conversion/programming error, as the other tracks are very close in appearance.

 

Anyone interested in updating/hacking the PAL track to closer match NTSC, the PAL values should be changes as follows:

Mountains/Background = $D3, $D4, $26
Road = $05, $06
Ground = $E2

 

Additionally, under NTSC, the Sky = $CC.  Then, under PAL, it would need to be updated to Sky = $DC.

[JetmanUK]

1 minute ago, Trebor said:

It is very different. Here is the same track palette breakdown under NTSC:

Mountains/Background = $C3, $C4, $F6
Road = $05, $06
Ground = $D2

 

Below are the sets of tracks after entering EAGLE1 for both NTSC and PAL.

 

Track 1:

 

Track 2:

 

Track 3:

 

Track 4:

 

I'm thinking this is very much unintentional, a conversion/programming error, as the other tracks are very close in appearance.

 

Anyone interested in updating/hacking the PAL track to closer match NTSC, the PAL values should be changes as follows:

Mountains/Background = $D3, $D4, $26
Road = $05, $06
Ground = $E2

Thanks for the detailed reply.

I know we would be changing history here, but could the palette be 'fixed' in Stella on the 2600 Plus for this game only?

[Trebor]

5 minutes ago, JetmanUK said:

Thanks for the detailed reply.

I know we would be changing history here, but could the palette be 'fixed' in Stella on the 2600 Plus for this game only?

I do not believe that would be possible, even if the palette could be 'fixed' for this game. 

 

Changing the value intended for black $00, causes any other place in the game to be affected as well.  Indeed, changing any of the mentioned values to point to another spot/color not only impacts the track in question, but any other place in the game that leverages that palette value properly.  It would not look correct elsewhere throughout the game.

 

The better course of action would be the ROM could be hacked and the values corrected for the track.  However, that is much easier stated then done.

[JetmanUK]

14 minutes ago, Trebor said:

I do not believe that would be possible, even if the palette could be 'fixed' for this game. 

 

Changing the value intended for black $00, causes any other place in the game to be affected as well.  Indeed, changing any of the mentioned values to point to another spot/color not only impacts the track in question, but any other place in the game that leverages that palette value properly.  It would not look correct elsewhere throughout the game.

 

The better course of action would be the ROM could be hacked and the values corrected for the track.  However, that is much easier stated then done.

I thought that this would be the case. Best course of action - ramp that TV brightness up!

 

EDIT:

@Trebor

Although I do wonder if the lighter colour on the road on the offending track could be made 1 or 2 shades lighter. It would make the track more visable, with a higher contrast between the stripes, and the effect on the other parts of the game may be minimal?

Edited June 24 by JetmanUK