2600+ "other capabilities"

[Zonie]

Noodling thoughts here.

It seems the 2600+ is really capable of way more than the 2600/7800 games, I mean, it's a Rockchip computer, Basically and it runs emulators and rom dumpers for the 2600/7800. I also assume there is code in the system that detects what was plugged in to determine what to dump the ROM to.

 

@Ben from Plaion, is there any plan to release new content that will take advantage of this console's hardware that couldn't actually play on a 7800 or 2600? Has this been considered? Is it possible to make carts that have something completely different and new that if plugged into an old 2600 or 7800 would simply not run or display a message saying not compatible, and also, not causing damage to either the console or the cart?

This basically has similar guts to the Evercade... New content that can be put into a classic 7800 cart and talk to the cpu would make this little console much more desirable to way more than us 50+ year-olds.

 

Edited July 2 by Zonie

[Bakasama]

I remember reading somewhere the emulator that runs the 7800 games has the functions of the XM add on the was designed years ago.

[John Stamos Mullet]

19 minutes ago, Bakasama said:

I remember reading somewhere the emulator that runs the 7800 games has the functions of the XM add on the was designed years ago.

It does. I have an original Donkey Kong XM cart that Tep made, and it runs perfect, with pokey sound and all.

[Zonie]

I also read someplace it should be able to run SNES games? Basically if it can run an emulator, it can run anything, but the interface has to match the hardware cart port.

[Trebor]

2 hours ago, Bakasama said:

I remember reading somewhere the emulator that runs the 7800 games has the functions of the XM add on the was designed years ago.

2 hours ago, John Stamos Mullet said:

It does. I have an original Donkey Kong XM cart that Tep made, and it runs perfect, with pokey sound and all.

The bulk of the XM capabilities is a conglomerate of cartridge based hardware addition, such as more memory and sound chips.  Something the 7800 sorely lacked during its original retail run, but its contemporaries were provisioned in spades.  Back in 2008, doing this game by game would have been significantly more expensive than a one-time hit with a centralized unit containing the cartridge based hardware expansions.

 

Graphic capabilities of the system remains solely on the 7800 MARIA graphics chip, whether a title was planned "XM compatible/required", or not.

 

The difference between Donkey Kong XM and Donkey Kong PK is the XM edition excluded the POKEY sound chip on the cartridge PCB, expecting the XM module to provide the sound chip.   The PK edition includes the POKEY chip.  The XM designated carts run perfectly fine under a base 7800 console, minus sound of course. 

 

The 7800 emulator for the 2600+ simulates the POKEY chip whether the chip is present or not if there is ROM code present that calls for it.  Same way it furnishes YM Sound when running Pac-Man Collection 40th Anniversary Edition.  It simulates the YM2151 sound chip, despite the chip not being present on the cartridge PCB.

[+swlovinist]

Blockem Sockem for the 7800 has been programmed with YM sound.   It takes advantage of this cool feature in the 2600+ and I am happy to be small part of that.   

[Maztr_0n]

I mean i'm far from 50 but ya know... it plays Adventure, Ikari, Fatal Run and Pokey+YM sound, plus new games???

 

 

I basically have most of my other retro systems on read because of how convenient this is.

[Ben from Plaion]

10 hours ago, Zonie said:

Noodling thoughts here.

It seems the 2600+ is really capable of way more than the 2600/7800 games, I mean, it's a Rockchip computer, Basically and it runs emulators and rom dumpers for the 2600/7800. I also assume there is code in the system that detects what was plugged in to determine what to dump the ROM to.

 

@Ben from Plaion, is there any plan to release new content that will take advantage of this console's hardware that couldn't actually play on a 7800 or 2600? Has this been considered? Is it possible to make carts that have something completely different and new that if plugged into an old 2600 or 7800 would simply not run or display a message saying not compatible, and also, not causing damage to either the console or the cart?

This basically has similar guts to the Evercade... New content that can be put into a classic 7800 cart and talk to the cpu would make this little console much more desirable to way more than us 50+ year-olds.

 

Well the RK3128 chip is basically capable of running all consoles upto the 32 bit era. It starts to struggle with maintaining decent framerates with 3D based games. But yeah all SNES, Megadrive, Neo Geo, CPS1 and 2 games would run sweet on 2600+ hardware.

 

We talked about having modern Atari games play on the machine like the recharged series because the RK3128 I presume has the power. However there is an immediate blocker. The cartridge dumper has really slow throughput. It takes a a few seconds to transfer a 2k game, and when you get to 100k games like Circus Convoy it begins to be an irritatingly long load time. Imagine a modern indie game that have a file size magnitudes bigger, it would take forever to load.

 

To me though these discussions are pipedreams anyway as we still havent got every single 2600/7800 game compatible and accessory support is still lacking, and this is after 8 months. Then there is the hold on, lets step back and think, just because we can do this, should we? At the moment my personal view would be for the 2600+ to concentrate on purely 2600 and 7800 games, get the firmware upto scratch and then release legacy, ports and new games strictly within the 2600/7800 spec.

[CPUWIZ]

7 minutes ago, Ben from Plaion said:

The cartridge dumper has really slow throughput. It takes a a few seconds to transfer a 2k game

 

Do you know why, parallel to serial conversion?  Is this all C code, or worse?  Or is it the 64byte packet limitation on the USB bus?  I mean, seconds is pretty weird, I can transfer data on the joystick port faster than that.  One of my custom 7800 BIOS's can program my MCP cart directly in the slot, which is a 144K transfer and that's about 20 seconds.

[MarcinJ]

3 hours ago, Ben from Plaion said:

At the moment my personal view would be for the 2600+ to concentrate on purely 2600 and 7800 games, get the firmware upto scratch and then release legacy, ports and new games strictly within the 2600/7800 spec.

I completely agree with @Ben from Plaion here. IMHO, there are so many consoles playing other retro games, there is no reason to add mediocre functionality to 2600+ just because it is possible. I would welcome a focus on 7800 and 2600 games, that is where the 2600 shines. The audience for that is there.

However, I would think that adding an extra USB port to the next generation of 2600++ to allow updates and use of purchased roms would be a very welcome addition. 

[Ben from Plaion]

3 hours ago, CPUWIZ said:

 

Do you know why, parallel to serial conversion?  Is this all C code, or worse?  Or is it the 64byte packet limitation on the USB bus?  I mean, seconds is pretty weird, I can transfer data on the joystick port faster than that.  One of my custom 7800 BIOS's can program my MCP cart directly in the slot, which is a 144K transfer and that's about 20 seconds.

I dont recall, but your scenarios around bus width and code sound familiar. As soon as I found out that the dumper transfer is very slow and cant be changed, I stopped thinking about it and moved on.

[CPUWIZ]

49 minutes ago, Ben from Plaion said:

I dont recall, but your scenarios around bus width and code sound familiar. As soon as I found out that the dumper transfer is very slow and cant be changed, I stopped thinking about it and moved on.

 

Actually, strike the USB comment, the dumping is done internally obviously.  A bit puzzling, need to look at the board a bit more.

 

This reminds me, I still haven't provided the A/B shot for the new cartridge slot/port.  

[JetmanUK]

4 hours ago, Ben from Plaion said:

Well the RK3128 chip is basically capable of running all consoles upto the 32 bit era. It starts to struggle with maintaining decent framerates with 3D based games. But yeah all SNES, Megadrive, Neo Geo, CPS1 and 2 games would run sweet on 2600+ hardware.

 

We talked about having modern Atari games play on the machine like the recharged series because the RK3128 I presume has the power. However there is an immediate blocker. The cartridge dumper has really slow throughput. It takes a a few seconds to transfer a 2k game, and when you get to 100k games like Circus Convoy it begins to be an irritatingly long load time. Imagine a modern indie game that have a file size magnitudes bigger, it would take forever to load.

 

To me though these discussions are pipedreams anyway as we still havent got every single 2600/7800 game compatible and accessory support is still lacking, and this is after 8 months. Then there is the hold on, lets step back and think, just because we can do this, should we? At the moment my personal view would be for the 2600+ to concentrate on purely 2600 and 7800 games, get the firmware upto scratch and then release legacy, ports and new games strictly within the 2600/7800 spec.

Agreed, this isn't a one stop shop box. Let's make it the best 2600/7800 machine it can be.

I have an Evercade for the other types of games discussed here anyway... Plus many other devices.

[pseudografx]

18 hours ago, John Stamos Mullet said:

It does. I have an original Donkey Kong XM cart that Tep made, and it runs perfect, with pokey sound and all.

LOL, guess what I've been testing just a moment ago.

 

 

Edited July 3 by pseudografx

[Maztr_0n]

15 hours ago, Maztr_0n said:

I mean i'm far from 50 but ya know... it plays Adventure, Ikari, Fatal Run and Pokey+YM sound, plus new games???

 

 

I basically have most of my other retro systems on read because of how convenient this is.

i will say this though, i figure that they could put quality of life enhancements into the 2600+ to give it a big benefit.

perhaps saves/password storage, atari 8-bit support? something like that.

[Gabe]

12 hours ago, Ben from Plaion said:

Then there is the hold on, lets step back and think, just because we can do this, should we? At the moment my personal view would be for the 2600+ to concentrate on purely 2600 and 7800 games, get the firmware upto scratch and then release legacy, ports and new games strictly within the 2600/7800 spec.

Couldn't agree more. Though it may be able to run those other systems doesn't necessarily mean it should. I'd so much rather the concentration be put into improving the console for the 2600/7800 games and peripherals it's meant for. Granted, there are people out there who would love it to run as much as possible from as many systems as possible, but I'm definitely not one of them. Plus, at least for me, the nostalgia just wouldn't be there while playing non Atari 2600/7800 games on it.

 

Of course, I'm talking about you guys, not the end user. If end users want to fiddle around with it to try to get it to do more than it currently does, more power to them.

 

And it's fairly easy and inexpensive, relatively speaking, for people to make their own multi system "console" with a Raspberry Pi or similar device. I use one for NES and SNES games, and have it in an SNES type case. Gotta have that nostalgia!

[Maztr_0n]

honestly out of anything we need to have it focus on 2600 and 7800 games mostly, doesnt mean that any kind of upgrade wouldn't be possible, but i think it would moreso be, perhaps supporting different kinds of enhancements and the like that original hardware would need seperately or something.


Honestly if anything... i'd just hope if somehow this console does well, we get a special Vader edition console with special star wars games, or later down the line a 2600+ JR or maybe some novelty like "2200+ portable" consoles.

Plus i mean, if we could get 7800 and 2600 homebrew to be as easily accessible and widespread as Game Boy/Color is, i'm pretty sure we'd also have far more Demakes, Tie-In Titles, Side Games, Etc... I mean if McDonalds was able to put out a game boy game, imagine who'd pay for the ACTUAL console company to do a release. Not saying Pepsi Invaders will get a remaster, but ya know... theres a lot that could be done by people.

Plus even without nostalgia, it would be odd to play something that isn't at least like a 7800 game, like even with Lynx level games, i'd feel like you're pushing it... Not saying i wouldn't wanna see any lynx games come to the big screen but ya know, thats what the 7800 is for! The kids of people buying into this console, even the ones who never had nostalgia for atari to begin with, are buying it to find out why people like atari, or idk some kids want to see their parents or grandparents nostalgia, or are young hobbyist homebrewers who'd take any platform, but if 2600/7800 is as accessible as the 2600+ is theoretically, that helps those platforms out ten fold, and even just young retro gamers in general who have no clue about any of this.

Sure it'd be nice to see extra features, but i'd rather see better compatibility and if anything, cross compatible accessories with 7800/2600, so that way it adds onto the experience for many and even those who dont have a 2600+, i am all for something like a Keyboard attatchment or Memory expansion to put more advanced Sim/Strategy games on the platform or something like that, but not just exclusively for 2600+

[Marc Fiorillo]

As an end user, I would prefer to see the concentration be placed on the immediate goals/uses of the 2600+, which is all 2600 and 7800 games and controllers run properly, before concentrating on other uses, plus the occasional new release cartridge.  I am a big fan of the 5200, and I would love to either see a 5200 adapter for the 2600+, or a 5200+ with cartridge slots for both the 5200 and 400.  But this would need to be done right, with good proper analog controllers, and a better system of testing before release.  (I'll do it!) The 2600+ is the first platform of its kind from Atari, and a good platform to figure out how to test and get things in order, and those lessons learned can be used on the next unit. 

[tradyblix]

9 hours ago, Marc Fiorillo said:

As an end user, I would prefer to see the concentration be placed on the immediate goals/uses of the 2600+, which is all 2600 and 7800 games and controllers run properly, before concentrating on other uses, plus the occasional new release cartridge.  I am a big fan of the 5200, and I would love to either see a 5200 adapter for the 2600+, or a 5200+ with cartridge slots for both the 5200 and 400.  But this would need to be done right, with good proper analog controllers, and a better system of testing before release.  (I'll do it!) The 2600+ is the first platform of its kind from Atari, and a good platform to figure out how to test and get things in order, and those lessons learned can be used on the next unit. 

Give me the giant boat, I want a full size replica of the 5200 just because 

[Ripweade]

Personally, I bought this device because I missed my VCS and this device, styling and playability, gave me back my youth.  It may have more advanced functionality, but it wouldn't interest me.  It has a 4-switcher styling, so that shows its roots.  Keep the focus on the VCS/2600.  That is where it kicks a**.  The 7800 functionality is a definite plus (I recently bought 7800 Galaga and PP 2), which is great, but I prefer the "original gamer" machine.  Keep the focus on 2600/7800 functionality.

[Maztr_0n]

16 hours ago, Ripweade said:

Personally, I bought this device because I missed my VCS and this device, styling and playability, gave me back my youth.  It may have more advanced functionality, but it wouldn't interest me.  It has a 4-switcher styling, so that shows its roots.  Keep the focus on the VCS/2600.  That is where it kicks a**.  The 7800 functionality is a definite plus (I recently bought 7800 Galaga and PP 2), which is great, but I prefer the "original gamer" machine.  Keep the focus on 2600/7800 functionality.

 

Yeah literally this, aka i agree with this, i bought it basically because i was stuck between wanting a 2600 Jr or a 7800 to try the games and i just thought "screw it, this is cheaper than some tested 7800 consoles and will probably someday play decathlon.

 

And honestly the most i'd even want to see is like, the ability to play advanced 7800 games, basically still a 7800 game but maybe with less sprite limitations, different input methods [Like KB+M], save games [via the game itself ofc], Digital WAV audio or MP3s even, light 3D graphics.

 

But legit nothing that i dont think a Game Boy Color or Master System would sweat running too much or a 7800 on its own, i see the use in wanting to expand slightly beyond the 7800's stock hardware, but also i think atari can do that with both platforms at once, retro is big...

 

So keep the compatibility coming, cant wait for the public Linux Update.

[TwoShedsWilson]

Honestly the only thing I would like to see is maybe Polymega-ish functionality, but I don't really know if there's enough storage in it to make it feasible. 

[Video]

Just concentrate on making full (games and accessories) compatibility and not worry about systems it wasn't blatantly designed to do. Having an all in one might be cool, but I'd prefer to get individual consoles tat do one, or a small number of related consoles (5200 and 4/800 for instance) maybe, MAYBE, after getting perfect functionality they could look at expansions, but I'd rather not, or build dedicated systems for those that want other stuff.

[JetmanUK]

I don’t really want Atari to expand the 2600 Plus to support modern games, but as we are playing around with concepts here…

 

They could manufacture an adapter which plugged into the USB C port and gave a USB C port for power, a micro SD slot and a standard USB slot too. This would allow larger games to be stored and read quickly. Or how about a custom mini cart slot for modern releases? It would then be similar to an Evercade VS, it’s very similar hardware, but with 2600/7800 cart support too.

 

It could be a small box that clips on the back, made of the same plastic as the console, or just a simple in-line box with an Atari logo on. It could be bundled with one of the Recharged series of games and a modern style multi button controller. Perhaps Atari 50 would be a good pack in game.

 

Just a concept, I have an Evercade already, plus consoles and PC, but this would give Atari a modern and classic box all in one.

[JetmanUK]

A thought just struck me.

 

The 2600 Plus doesn't have a cart slot that is compatible with 5200 games, we all know that, so no classic 5200 games. But there's no reason that 5200 games couldn't be available on a 2600/7800 is there? The games get dumped into memory anyway, all you need is a 5200 emulator in the firmware. 

 

Now I get that it would be confusing to say it supports 5200 games as the classic carts wouldn't fit. So I wouldn't recommend selling individual 5200 branded games, I am thinking of things like a Centipede collection. It could have 2600, 5200 and 7800 versions on the cart. Other collections too. 5200 games will be small so they load fast enough, they don't require any more hardware grunt to emulate, they would work just fine on the 2600 Plus hardware*. 

 

The only hurdle is to make sure that no-one thinks that they are are getting a cart which would slot into their original 5200, but making 5200 games part of a compilation would make that pretty clear anyway. A mix of two or three consoles (any two or three from 2600, 5200, 7800) games on one cart is obviously targeted at the 2600 Plus. A sticker on the box could clarify this. 

 

This could be expanded further, how large are Lynx games? If small enough to dump quickly they could also be added to compilation carts. How about Atari 8 bit games? Could be a fun compilation. All just a thought. 

 

*One thing came to mind as I wrote this, the analogue controller, well they could sell one. But I guess most games would work on just a 7800 joypad anyway? 

 

EDIT:

Of course they could sell a cart slot adapter, but that is more things to manufacture so that may not be desirable, how big is the demand? I would think multicarts which include 5200 games which work with a 7800 joypad would be a low enough bar to be financially viable.

Edited July 30 by JetmanUK