JetmanUK Posted August 7 Share Posted August 7 Just now, MrChickenz said: I’ve never had a 5200 myself but the controllers wouldn’t work anyway I don’t believe. It’s not the DB9 and you would need the keypad as well. I may be wrong, but aren't there games which just use simple one or two button commands? If so they could be mapped to the two 7800 buttons. I am really no expert on the 5200 though. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrChickenz Posted August 7 Share Posted August 7 1 minute ago, JetmanUK said: I may be wrong, but aren't there games which just use simple one or two button commands? If so they could be mapped to the two 7800 buttons. I am really no expert on the 5200 though. True! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Fred_M Posted August 7 Share Posted August 7 (edited) The games of the 5200 are IDENTICAL (graphics and sound) to the ones for the Atari 8-bit computer series and do not use the 5200 controller, which is DB15 by the way 😉 The 5200 and the Atari 8-bit computer series use the same hardware, including the Pokey chip (built in the computer/console). So there is no need for a workaround for the joystick if an adapter was created to use Atari 8-bit cartridges. Ms Pac Man 5200 Ms Pac Man Atari 8-bit (normally there is no color difference) Atari 5200 cartridge Atari 8-bit cartridge This is a nice comparison of cartridge sizes. Left: 5200 cartridge, upper right: Atari 8-bit cartridge, lower right: 2600 cartridge. Edited August 7 by Fred_M 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maztr_0n Posted August 7 Share Posted August 7 1 hour ago, tradyblix said: I think you should watch the angry video game nerd episode on it lol. i did, i also saw the one where he finally beats it! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Fred_M Posted August 7 Share Posted August 7 (edited) 42 minutes ago, MrChickenz said: I’ve never had a 5200 myself but the controllers wouldn’t work anyway I don’t believe. It’s not the DB9 and you would need the keypad as well. I’m guessing some games would need the keypad? Not sure. I have the 5200 and a couple of games. Some games do need the keypad and use a cover that can be attached to the keypad. The 5200 joystick is horrible! It is analog in stead of the digital CX40, CX24 and CX78. These joysticks were known to break very fast and most of the games do not support the analog controls very well. These joysticks are VERY different to the joysticks of the 2600, 7800, Jaguar, Atari 8-bit computers and Atari 16-bit computers. My English is not good enough to describe how the 5200 joystick works, so I copied a part of Wikipedia. The 5200's controllers have an analog joystick and a numeric keypad along with start, pause, and reset buttons. The 360-degree non-centering joystick was touted as offering more control than the eight-way Atari CX40 joystick of the 2600, but was a focal point for criticism. The controller prototypes used in the electrical development lab employed a yoke-and-gimbal mechanism that came from an RC airplane controller kit. The design of the analog joystick, which used a weak rubber boot rather than springs to provide centering, proved to be ungainly and unreliable. They quickly became the Achilles' heel of the system due to the combination of an overly complex mechanical design and a very low-cost internal flex circuit system. Another major flaw of the controllers was that the design did not translate into a linear acceleration from the center through the arc of the stick travel. The controllers did, however, include a pause button, a unique feature at the time. Edited August 7 by Fred_M 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben from Plaion Posted August 7 Share Posted August 7 5 hours ago, JetmanUK said: That would be nicer... I was thinking from a business point of view, cost - a cheaper cart as no extra chip, and marketing - a reason to own a 2600 Plus. I would rather have POKEY type sound available somewhere than not at all. I find TIA sound jarring on 7800 games, whereas it's endearing on 2600 games. If my suggested solution meant improved sound when played on particular hardware then I think it's a good comprimise. You'd have to think of it as a bonus feature when played on certain hardware rather than a feature that has been taken away, as there wouldn't be a chip present in the cart to offer the feature anyway. This kind of thing has occured in gaming for decades, software running different features on hardware which supports it. The first thing that comes to mind is AY multichannel sound when you play a Spectrum game on a 128K model, load the exact same game and you get Beeper one channel sound on a 48K model, that goes back to the mid 80's. PC games too, if your graphics card can handle it you can ramp up the resolution, graphical features, the FPS. I just wouldn't want Atari to write off the idea of improved sound in 7800 games if they were not willing to spend the money on a chip, my proposed solution allows it. You already get improved image quality on a 2600 Plus anway. What do you think @Ben from Plaion? Yes of course. In fact pokey is really causing me a real headache right now. The fricken millionth variation of Atari 2600/7800 carts, if its not fukcing bank switching schemes, it super chip RAM, or PAL NTSC variations and now pokey. Drives me insane. 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Fred_M Posted August 7 Share Posted August 7 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Ben from Plaion said: Yes of course. In fact pokey is really causing me a real headache right now. Mybe The fricken millionth variation of Atari 2600/7800 carts, if its not fukcing bank switching schemes, it super chip RAM, or PAL NTSC variations and now pokey. Drives me insane. Welcome to the world of Atari 🤣🤣🤣 Maybe the Pokeymax clone is an option... Or the "AtariAge" Hokey: https://erstwhile-technologies-7800.square.site/product/hokey-sound-chip/6 Edited August 7 by Fred_M Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
infinite.pies Posted August 7 Share Posted August 7 5 hours ago, Fred_M said: The games of the 5200 are IDENTICAL (graphics and sound) to the ones for the Atari 8-bit computer series and do not use the 5200 controller, which is DB15 by the way 😉 The 5200 and the Atari 8-bit computer series use the same hardware, including the Pokey chip (built in the computer/console). So there is no need for a workaround for the joystick if an adapter was created to use Atari 8-bit cartridges. Yes, the 5200 sits in the Atari 8-bit family. The Atari 400 Mini has 5200 compatibility (albeit without the cartridge slot), which seems like the more logical place for it to sit. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maztr_0n Posted August 8 Share Posted August 8 4 hours ago, infinite.pies said: Yes, the 5200 sits in the Atari 8-bit family. The Atari 400 Mini has 5200 compatibility (albeit without the cartridge slot), which seems like the more logical place for it to sit. on the 5200 thing... no shade to 5200 owners and fans and i 100% get the question and i wont dismiss the desire for any 5200 cartridge support in the modern day. but could some titles just be ported to 7800, assuming rights arent a big issue at least for a few titles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maztr_0n Posted August 8 Share Posted August 8 5 hours ago, Fred_M said: Welcome to the world of Atari 🤣🤣🤣 Maybe the Pokeymax clone is an option... Or the "AtariAge" Hokey: https://erstwhile-technologies-7800.square.site/product/hokey-sound-chip/6 i was hoping Hokey would be mentioned, i mean, not to continue to be clueless but, seems like the closest possibility... or exclusive updates and what not, but it would be cool if it was universal... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Stamos Mullet Posted August 8 Share Posted August 8 Just now, Maztr_0n said: on the 5200 thing... no shade to 5200 owners and fans and i 100% get the question and i wont dismiss the desire for any 5200 cartridge support in the modern day. but could some titles just be ported to 7800, assuming rights arent a big issue at least for a few titles. There really aren't that many great games for the 5200 where the 7800 doesn't already have an equivalent or better version. 8-Bit had a bunch more games, but it also had a fair share of shovelware. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maztr_0n Posted August 8 Share Posted August 8 6 minutes ago, John Stamos Mullet said: There really aren't that many great games for the 5200 where the 7800 doesn't already have an equivalent or better version. 8-Bit had a bunch more games, but it also had a fair share of shovelware. i guess fair enough and the same question may apply, but Fractalus will always be in my heart, even though... i dont know how you'd even approach the house of mouse about an obscure IP from the mid 80's to possibly, maybe get the rights to finish a prototype for an 80's 8-bit console to be made for said system now... but i can always dream about the 5200/8-bit titles that i know will probably never come again or shouldn't... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRingBearer Posted August 8 Share Posted August 8 26 minutes ago, John Stamos Mullet said: 8-Bit had a bunch more games, but it also had a fair share of shovelware. M.U.L.E. would be a great one to see ported and The Great American Cross-Country Road Race. To name a couple I'd like to see personally. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pseudografx Posted August 9 Share Posted August 9 On 8/8/2024 at 3:52 AM, Maztr_0n said: on the 5200 thing... no shade to 5200 owners and fans and i 100% get the question and i wont dismiss the desire for any 5200 cartridge support in the modern day. but could some titles just be ported to 7800, assuming rights arent a big issue at least for a few titles. The 7800's architecture is very different from the Atari 8-bit series. Basically the only common thing is the CPU, but you cannot easily port a game between the systems. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Fred_M Posted August 9 Share Posted August 9 (edited) 1 hour ago, pseudografx said: The 7800's architecture is very different from the Atari 8-bit series. Basically the only common thing is the CPU, but you cannot easily port a game between the systems. True, but the 2600+ is a emulator device, so an Atari 8-bit/5200 emulator can be added. The problem is that 5200 and Atari 8-bit cartridges need a different cartridge slot, so that's why it was suggested to put some of these games in an Atari 7800 "cartridge". But in my opinion it is better to focus on 7800 games because it is the most powerful system of the three. Edited August 9 by Fred_M 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Stamos Mullet Posted August 9 Share Posted August 9 If some kind soul would finally just port the 5200 version of Pitfall II to the 7800, I would be very happy. Always thought it was really lame that the 2nd level in that version never made it to any other consoles, and the 5200 was already pretty much dead by the time it came out. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrChickenz Posted August 9 Share Posted August 9 (edited) 33 minutes ago, John Stamos Mullet said: If some kind soul would finally just port the 5200 version of Pitfall II to the 7800, I would be very happy. Always thought it was really lame that the 2nd level in that version never made it to any other consoles, and the 5200 was already pretty much dead by the time it came out. I like this idea! But don’t forget Keystone Kapers as well! Edited August 9 by MrChickenz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maztr_0n Posted August 9 Share Posted August 9 35 minutes ago, MrChickenz said: I like this idea! But don’t forget Keystone Kapers as well! Kapers + Cannonball? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THX-1138 Posted August 9 Share Posted August 9 On 8/5/2024 at 4:10 AM, Maztr_0n said: Well heres my two cents... i think i'd wanna see a 5200+ instead if the timeline allows for it to co-exist, however i do think said system should also be an Atari 8-Bit+, keyboard and all! Who knows, now Atari have publicly mentioned the "Atari + Platform" in their recent Universal Registration document for the French regulators, perhaps there will be other + Platform products like a 5200+ or Intellivision+ etc. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maztr_0n Posted August 9 Share Posted August 9 2 minutes ago, THX-1138 said: Who knows, now Atari have publicly mentioned the "Atari + Platform" in their recent Universal Registration document for the French regulators, perhaps there will be other + Platform products like a 5200+ or Intellivision+ etc. oui oui! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRingBearer Posted August 9 Share Posted August 9 1 hour ago, MrChickenz said: I like this idea! But don’t forget Keystone Kapers as well! MuddyVision has released Keystone Koppers for the 7800 which is a nice version of Keystone Kapers. Hopefully he can make the carts available again soon but for now you can purchase the ROM from him. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bakasama Posted August 9 Share Posted August 9 A Megamania clone with a moving star field or Chopper Command with parallax scrolling for the 7800 would be pretty great. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Stamos Mullet Posted August 9 Share Posted August 9 2 hours ago, MrChickenz said: I like this idea! But don’t forget Keystone Kapers as well! There is already a 7800 version. Keystone Koppers, by MuddyFunster. It's fantastic. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrChickenz Posted August 9 Share Posted August 9 54 minutes ago, TheRingBearer said: MuddyVision has released Keystone Koppers for the 7800 which is a nice version of Keystone Kapers. Hopefully he can make the carts available again soon but for now you can purchase the ROM from him. 32 minutes ago, John Stamos Mullet said: There is already a 7800 version. Keystone Koppers, by MuddyFunster. It's fantastic. Thank You! I forgot I did get the Rom, I was thinking physical copies. But you’re right it is fantastic! I’ve been playing so much 2600+ / 7800+ and haven’t played much emulation lately. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tradyblix Posted August 9 Share Posted August 9 3 hours ago, Bakasama said: A Megamania clone with a moving star field or Chopper Command with parallax scrolling for the 7800 would be pretty great. Megamania is my jam. Only downside is it's a "get up and reset to start" game. which I hate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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