Atari is finally embracing their Japanese heritage

[JPF997]

1 minute ago, Sauron said:

You're severely overblowing the "Japanese heritage" of the company, to the point where it's an extreme stretch to say it has any Japanese heritage at all beyond its name. This has been pointed out to you over and over and over during the course of the thread. You really tend to choose the worst hills to die on.

 

You know what Sega calls the Brazilian  game company Tec Toy ?  The most Japanese Brazilian company that's ever existed, even though Tec Toy never had a real presence in the  Japanese market  or   ever employed a significant portion of  Japanese game developers, so why do you think former Sega CEOs called them that ?

[John Stamos Mullet]

12 minutes ago, JPF997 said:

spiritual heritage.

A.k.a. “Entirely made-up fictional nonsense that doesn’t exist except in your warped mind”

[+Sauron]

1 minute ago, JPF997 said:

You know what Sega calls the Brazilian  game company Tec Toy ?  The most Japanese Brazilian company that's ever existed, even though Tec Toy never had a real presence in the  Japanese market  or   ever employed a significant portion of  Japanese game developers, so why do you think former Sega CEOs called them that ?

I think that's completely irrelevant to Atari not having any Japanese heritage beyond its name. You're reeeeaaaallllyyy stretching here to make that connection, and if you have to stretch that much to make it, surely at some point you have to realize that you're looking at it in the wrong way? 

 

[JPF997]

3 minutes ago, John Stamos Mullet said:

A.k.a. “Entirely made-up fictional nonsense that doesn’t exist except in your warped mind”

If it only exists in my mind then why do I see that Heritage resurfacing in the Recharged games, Yars Rising, Lunar Lander Beyond, Fatal Run 2089, the reimagined games in Atari 50 etc

[Giles N]

@JPF997

 

Can you elaborate about your heading?

 

What do you mean by Atari to embrace its japanese heritage?

 

I mean, its like all the discussion here drop the whats-in-a-word factor: ‘heritage’ in what sense? - money, companies, culture, ideas, industry…

Spoiler

imperial pedigree lineage, anything…

?

 

Please explain why and how so.

 

(I’m not saying you are wrong or right; just explain how you get to something and in what sense you use your wording)

Edited Wednesday at 01:57 PM by Giles N

[John Stamos Mullet]

13 minutes ago, JPF997 said:

If it only exists in my mind then why do I see that Heritage resurfacing in the Recharged games, Yars Rising, Lunar Lander Beyond, Fatal Run 2089, the reimagined games in Atari 50 etc

You don’t. 
 

You see Atari jumping on the current marketing bandwagon of “Anime is popular, let’s make everything anime-themed”.

 

Thats not an indicator of heritage. It’s cultural appropriation. Your culture is being exploited as a costume party for monetary gain. 

Edited Wednesday at 01:50 PM by John Stamos Mullet

[Giles N]

12 minutes ago, John Stamos Mullet said:

It’s cultural appropriation.

So according to you the thread heading should read ‘Atari is finally embracing their appropriation of japanese culture’ ?

 

 

 

JPF is ‘heritage’, but you are leaning towards (or happen to be all-in-with) ‘appropriation’ ?

 

 

Why..? And how so…?

Edited Wednesday at 02:03 PM by Giles N

[John Stamos Mullet]

4 minutes ago, Giles N said:

So according to you the thread heading should read ‘Atari is finally embracing their appropriation of japanese culture’ ?

 

 

 

JPF is ‘heritage’, but you are leaning towards (or happen to be all-in-with) ‘appropriation’ ?

 

 

Why..? And how so…?

Because Atari has literally no historical connection with Japan at all, but Japanese Anime style cartoons have become popular in recent years in the US (mostly through porn), so Atari jumped on the Anime bandwagon because they can cash in on the pink haired cosplaying weirdos who love it. 

[JPF997]

49 minutes ago, Giles N said:

@JPF997

 

Can you elaborate about your heading?

 

What do you mean by Atari to embrace its japanese heritage?

 

The  link that ties Atari together with Japan was always of a spiritual nature, even though it was a company founded by Americans the fact that it has a Japanese name and it's logo looks like the most iconic Japanese symbol  means something, Opperman can yap all he wants  about not taking inspiration from the Fuji mountain but the fact is he made a logo that looks extremely similar to it for a company that has a  Japanese name, if that's not the Stars aligning I don't know what is.

49 minutes ago, Giles N said:

I mean, its like all the discussion here drop the whats-in-a-word factor: ‘heritage’ in what sense? - money, companies, culture, ideas, industry…

  Reveal hidden contents

imperial pedigree lineage, anything…

?

The Heritage is mostly cultural, more specifically from  70s/80s Japanese pop culture (old school anime, Cyberpunk,  the gameplay is King philosophy of Japanese gaming that Atari also embraced).

 

It's great to see Atari embrace all these things again in they're new games, Jack Tramiel took Atari in a different ( worse ) direction and I'm glad things have been getting better  ever since Infogrames took over and became the new Atari ( even better now since Wade took over ).

49 minutes ago, Giles N said:

Please explain why and how so.

 

(I’m not saying you are wrong or right; just explain how you get to something and in what sense you use your wording)

It's not easy  to  casually explain my viewpoint on this subject ( especially to an audience that's not very receptive to these new interpretations of old gaming history) but I hope that  I made things I bit more clearer for you.

Edited Wednesday at 02:32 PM by JPF997

[+Sauron]

57 minutes ago, John Stamos Mullet said:

Because Atari has literally no historical connection with Japan at all, but Japanese Anime style cartoons have become popular in recent years in the US (mostly through porn), so Atari jumped on the Anime bandwagon because they can cash in on the pink haired cosplaying weirdos who love it. 

Still beating that drum even though you've already been proven wrong. You should bow out of this thread before you humiliate yourself even more.

 

46 minutes ago, JPF997 said:

 

The  link that ties Atari together with Japan was always of a spiritual nature, even though it was a company founded by Americans the fact that it has a Japanese name and it's logo looks like the most iconic Japanese symbol  means something, Opperman can yap all he wants  about not taking inspiration from the Fuji mountain but the fact is he made a logo that looks extremely similar to it for a company that has a  Japanese name, if that's not the Stars aligning I don't know what is.

The logo looks like most mountains, not just Mount Fuji. Take a look at this mountain, and tell me which one it is:

 

 

Looks kinda like the Fuji logo too, doesn't it? Should we start saying that Atari has its historical heritage in the Pacific Northwest just because it's logo looks like Mount Rainier? Again, you're stretching to ridiculous lengths to make the connection.

 

[John Stamos Mullet]

24 minutes ago, Sauron said:

Still beating that drum even though you've already been proven wrong. You should bow out of this thread before you humiliate yourself even more.

You didn’t prove anything wrong. You made a bunch of claims you believe to be correct, and then demanded that I agree with you. That doesn’t constitute “proof” of anything. That’s just you writing your own head canon to justify your opinion. 

Edited Wednesday at 03:38 PM by John Stamos Mullet

[+Sauron]

9 minutes ago, John Stamos Mullet said:

You didn’t prove anything wrong. You made a bunch of claims you believe to be correct, and then demanded that I agree with you. That doesn’t constitute “proof” of anything. That’s just you writing your own head canon to justify your opinion. 

I provided proof against your claim about doing a search for anime images as well as evidence refuting your constant claims of anime only being for perverts, and you've provided fuck-all in return to prove your own claims. I'm not repeating "head canon" here, I've presented facts in opposition to your claims. Please stop projecting your own shortcomings onto others.

 

[John Stamos Mullet]

26 minutes ago, Sauron said:

I provided proof against your claim about doing a search for anime images as well as evidence refuting your constant claims of anime only being for perverts, and you've provided fuck-all in return to prove your own claims. I'm not repeating "head canon" here, I've presented facts in opposition to your claims. Please stop projecting your own shortcomings onto others.

 

I never said anime is “only” for perverts, or anyone else. in fact, I never used the word “only” or anything related to anime being “only” anything. Again - you invented head canon to justify your opinion. 

in fact, if you go back to where I originally started replying in this thread, and read from my first reply, there is literally nothing I wrote that indicates “only” or any sort of exclusivity regarding anime. Yet JPf himself specifically asked me if I thought anime was solely for creeps who fap to that shit, and I never acknowledged that claim. So the person you really should be yelling at is him, not me.

 

Edited Wednesday at 04:14 PM by John Stamos Mullet

[JPF997]

57 minutes ago, Sauron said:

Still beating that drum even though you've already been proven wrong. You should bow out of this thread before you humiliate yourself even more.

 

The logo looks like most mountains, not just Mount Fuji. Take a look at this mountain, and tell me which one it is:

 

 

Looks kinda like the Fuji logo too, doesn't it? Should we start saying that Atari has its historical heritage in the Pacific Northwest just because it's logo looks like Mount Rainier? Again, you're stretching to ridiculous lengths to make the connection.

 

I guess they  call It the Fuji Logo instead of the Everest logo just because right? It just so happens  that one day everyone started randomly calling it the Fuji logo and  somehow no one ever questioned why ?

[Giles N]

Number one significant influence concerning Atari and Japan, - twoway-influence -, is Namco buying Atari Japan, and in general Namco snd Atari cooperating from 1974 - 1985 on several things. Its more of ‘bridge’ thing: it helped Namco get a stronger presence in the US, while initially helped Atari get a foot in the Japanese market.

 

The other influence is the shared generral interest for Arcade- and video-game technology. But this seems more like asking where did Arcade- and Video Games originate(?) leading to the answer they emerged very much out of toy and entertainment infustrial competition and cooperation between American and Japanese companies, the Japanese perhaps leading in Arcades (Sega, Namco, Nintendo) while America lead on the homefront with many super early video game systems and then the more globally impacting 2600.

 

Its not directly wrong to associate these beginnings with ‘some stuff Atari got into concerning important interactions with Japan’, but it seems to both ways.

 

Arcades and Video Games seems to originate from competitions between emerging technologies of the 60ies and 70ies with the main actors being either Japanese or American, both influencing each others on many areas.

 

@JPF997 @John Stamos Mullet

Edited Wednesday at 04:27 PM by Giles N

[John Stamos Mullet]

2 minutes ago, JPF997 said:

I guess they  call It the Fuji Logo instead of the Everest logo just because right? It just so happens  that one day everyone started randomly calling it the Fuji logo and  somehow no one ever questioned why ?

Correct. Because nobody ever tried to claim it had anything to do with Atari’s “spiritual heritage” (whatever the fuck that’s supposed to mean) until you showed up here inventing things out of thin air.

[atarifan88]

All the "talk" in this thread has made me think of this for some reason...

 

[John Stamos Mullet]

13 minutes ago, Giles N said:

Number one significant influence concerning Atari and Japan, - twoway-influence -, is Namco buying Atari Japan, and in general Namco snd Atari cooperating from 1974 - 1985 on several things. Its more of ‘bridge’ thing: it helped Namco get a stronger presence in the US, while initially helped Atari get a foot in the Japanese market.

 

The other influence is the shared generral interest for Arcade- and video-game technology. But this seems more like asking where did Arcade- and Video Games originate(?) leading to the answer they emerged very much out of toy and entertainment infustrial competition and cooperation between American and Japanese companies, the Japanese perhaps leading in Arcades (Sega, Namco, Nintendo) while America lead on the homefront with many super early video game systems and then the more globally impacting 2600.

 

Its not directly wrong to associate these beginnings with ‘some stuff Atari got into concerning important interactions with Japan’, but it seems to both ways.

 

Arcades and Video Games seems to originate from competitions between emerging technologies of the 60ies and 70ies with the main actors being either Japanese or American, both influencing each others on many areas.

 

@JPF997 @John Stamos Mullet

While all of this may be accurate from a company-interaction during the beginning of video game industry standpoint, literally none of this has anything to do with why Atari is now jumping on the “Anime is popular now, so let’s use that to market our new games” bandwagon.

[+Fred_M]

On 9/30/2024 at 6:13 PM, JPF997 said:

all you're doing is tearing down Atari's origin myth replacing it with a boring/soulless Realism interpretation of history.

I think JPF997 already forgot he wrote this 3 weeks ago...

 

[phoenixdownita]

Wrt anime oversexualization of minors before you feel enraged with his reaction as I once was please read:

you need to be signed in to access it. Point 3 is just terrible.

 

I didn’t dare to ask for more details as I am afraid of the horrors but I share the same feelings aka protect the children, always. And if that means requiring to tone down or altogether remove even mild sexualization of minors then that’s the right thing to do, always.

Edited Wednesday at 04:52 PM by phoenixdownita

[Giles N]

20 minutes ago, John Stamos Mullet said:

“Anime is popular now, so let’s use that to market our new games”

Well, assuming first that Anime doesn’t need to be indecent or overtly sexualizing, but just (a) manga-style animated piece, it would perhaps serve as getting attention among kids and younger gamers very much into the Switch and secondarily the PS4 & 5. 

 

Some would say, not much ‘heritage’ there, - leaving us with the possibility the thread to have disconnected bits as to concrete examples and how they play out in the Atari history, but still connected by emotional associactions that actually do go far back (Namco-Atari cooperation) in time and aren’t totally irrelevant to history.

 

Its almost like @JPF997 had valid points, but the games Lunar Lander Beyond and Yars Rising were poor examples given to prove a point.

 

Guess, we have to wait around to see if Atari and Namco can find back to some of the synergy that made it all begin, put some differences aside and for old time sake bring Retro Gaming to new heights… 

 

Much more to Japans game industry than Anime and Cyberpunk… Much more to Japan than Manga/Anime.

Edited Wednesday at 04:53 PM by Giles N

[John Stamos Mullet]

12 minutes ago, phoenixdownita said:

Wrt anime oversexualization of minors before you feel enraged with his reaction as I once was please read:

you need to be signed in to access it.

 

I didn’t dare to ask for more details as I am afraid of the horrors but I share the same feelings aka protect the children, always. And if that means requiring to tone down or altogether remove even mild sexualization of minors then that’s the right thing to do, always.

And I won’t share details because it’s off topic. But I can share that while I thankfully escaped mostly unscathed, I had two friends who committed suicide over it later in life. So yeah - it really, really bothers me when people gloss over anime as being harmless, which the. Commercialized versions certainly are, by pretending the filth that permeates that genre aren’t horrific, easily accessible, and way outnumber the commercial stuff.

 

Thankfully nobody here has gone down the “it’s Art/it’s fictional/get over it” line of defense of that stuff that most 4chan incel creeps on other forums uses as their go to excuse for having hard drives filled with stuff that would possibly land them on an FBI watchlist. 

Edited Wednesday at 04:59 PM by John Stamos Mullet

[CharlesEChuck]

[+Sauron]

1 hour ago, John Stamos Mullet said:

I never said anime is “only” for perverts, or anyone else. in fact, I never used the word “only” or anything related to anime being “only” anything. Again - you invented head canon to justify your opinion. 

A matter of word choice on my part, but you know what I mean. Ok, not "only", but "mainly". There, is that better? Hardly a matter of head canon, though. Again, stop projecting.

 

10 minutes ago, John Stamos Mullet said:

And I won’t share details because it’s off topic. But I can share that while I thankfully escaped mostly unscathed, I had two friends who committed suicide over it later in life. So yeah - it really, really bothers me when people gloss over anime as being harmless, which the. Commercialized versions certainly are, by pretending the filth that permeates that genre aren’t horrific, easily accessible, and way outnumber the commercial stuff.

Yet again you're generalizing an entire art form based on the worst of it. The vast majority of anime is harmless, and furthermore, placing blame on fiction where it should be on the actions of people is a complete cop-out that does nothing to solve any problems.

 

 

[Giles N]

19 minutes ago, John Stamos Mullet said:

But I can share that while I thankfully escaped mostly unscathed, I had two friends who committed suicide over it later in life.

I’m sorry to hear about that. 
 

19 minutes ago, John Stamos Mullet said:

So yeah - it really, really bothers me when people gloss over anime as being harmless, which the. Commercialized versions certainly are, by pretending the filth that permeates that genre aren’t horrific, easily accessible, and way outnumber the commercial stuff

Perhaps not ‘everyone pretends’, but - if not into it - only really knows about the commercial stuff (that are actually harmless), and truly believes the pornographic animes to be a minority/shadowy side…?

 

I personally have had no other/deeper take or analysis on any of this than that Asian entertainment have another standard than western countries when it comes to when, where and how sex, love & romance is presented. Yes, I’ve picked up that it seems very ‘common’ for anime/manga to have their stuff crammed with ‘babes’, but I didn’t suspect the pornographic world to be bigger than the normal versions.

 

Edited Wednesday at 05:18 PM by Giles N