Thomas Jentzsch Posted April 13, 2004 Share Posted April 13, 2004 Hmm...this is all news to me. I have not been aware of any "wars" or "feuds" between AA and DP... IMO you can consider yourself lucky. (and whatever other websites exist out there catering to classic gaming) AFAIK(!) its only between AA and DP and those who are (considered to be) related. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shortly Posted April 13, 2004 Share Posted April 13, 2004 All I know is that I try to stay out of the middle of these sort of things, having been in the middle of a brouhaha in the ADAM community back in 89. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Wolfe Posted April 13, 2004 Share Posted April 13, 2004 I for one can speak to the difficulty of forgiveing and forgetting when you have been stabbed in the back. It is much easier to sit on the periphery and espouse good will and the notion of "can't we all get along" when you have not been the focus of smear tactics or harrassment. As for proof of these so called 'stories' one needs only to READ first hand what has transpired. Much of it can be found right here by the original authors of the statements and is not hear-say. On the topic of internet harrassment, not many people here know that I had a stalker of sorts prior to Philly Classic [nothing at all related to this or any other classic game forums or organization]. it went on for a year and at one point this person sent a picture of me decapitated to my wife through AIM. I DID get the police and PC5 security involved and they took it very seriously. They actually stopped this indivdual in the parking lot at PC5. I did not press charges due to the young age of this guy and I felt the situation was "handled" and since then all harrassment has stopped. In closing, and this is the last I'll say on the subject of in-fighting, I would love nothing more than to have this all resolve itself in some way but I ask for patience from those on the periphery who are feeling as though we should be able to wrap this up. I'm not asking anyone to chose sides, just be patient. -Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cvo Posted April 13, 2004 Share Posted April 13, 2004 Hmm...this is all news to me. I have not been aware of any "wars" or "feuds" between AA and DP... IMO you can consider yourself lucky. (and whatever other websites exist out there catering to classic gaming) AFAIK(!) its only between AA and DP and those who are (considered to be) related. It is not as simple as boiling this down to just something between AA and DP, Thomas. There are other people and organizations that have been harassed, slandered and libeled by members of the latter org. This is not as simple as two orgs vying for people to side with them. This is a matter of one org acting nonprofessionally to other people and orgs that are deemed as competition, potential competition or whatever. People are getting tired of being lied to, being lied about, being harassed, etc. To call these guys jerks is an understatement. "Why can't we all just get along" kind of mentality is not going to make this problem go away. I agree with you, however, that things need to be made public so that the reasons WHY there are problems in this hobby can be solved. The people who know more about what is going on are frustrated that things are getting worse and driving people out of this hobby, and the people who don't know what is going on are frustrated because all they can see from their perspective is stupid drama. My vote is to get all this crap out into the open and do a lot of spring cleaning in the process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NovaXpress Posted April 13, 2004 Share Posted April 13, 2004 It's clear that there's no solution here. War has been declared. Whoever takes the highest road will remain standing in the end. Thanks to all those from both the AA and DP camps who sent me empathizing messages. I think both groups would like to end this feud, but no one wants to be the first to say "we're done." My intention never was to start a AA-DP war, and I really hope that's not what is going to happen. I've kept silent about the harassment I've been suffering for almost a year now hoping the person responsible would just give it a rest. However once it became appearent that said individual had some serious problems and started to step up his harassment of me and my friends, I felt I had to take this public. I hope you nail his ass to the wall. You certainly didn't start any war, but by throwing in the subject of Scott Stilphen's harassment in an AA-vs-DP thread, you are throwing fuel onto the fire. Your feelings are totally justified, but when presented in this way it comes of like "see what evil people they are on the other side." Was this the best time and place to raise the issue? If anyone decides to leave either community as these events transpire I say good riddance and don't let the door hit you too hard on the way out. Yes, those who just want to have fun with the hobby and avoid these pissing matches are the LAST people we need. Okay. Once there's no one left in the hobby but the AA and DP insiders I'm sure everything will be much better. People who are not involved in this directly are making too big a deal out of this. Before this turns into another Hozer thread, I suggest stepping back and leaving it alone. Guess what? You guys are making damn sure that we all get involved. These kind of wars affect all of us. So now we can only get certain distributors and meet certain gamers at certain sponsored conventions. Better save up those airline miles. A division like this means that the information isn't being shared with everyone. It scares off newcomers to the hobby, the ones who'll be buying all those homebrews and repros now that the top collectors pretty much own everything already. The people of both Digital Press and AtariAge took on the responsibility of being leaders in this hobby. As the years have gone on, both groups have worked to make themselves essential to anyone who wants to participate. So don't dare say that we have no right to speak up about this. The message from everyone not involved in this little soap opera is clear: either drop this shit or keep it to yourselves because we believe that it's going to hurt a scene that we love. And if that doesn't mean anything to you classic gaming promoters, if it is indeed more important to fight over who's king of the hill, then you deserve to fail. And don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sku_u Posted April 13, 2004 Share Posted April 13, 2004 People who are not involved in this directly are making too big a deal out of this. Before this turns into another Hozer thread, I suggest stepping back and leaving it alone. Guess what? You guys are making damn sure that we all get involved. These kind of wars affect all of us. So now we can only get certain distributors and meet certain gamers at certain sponsored conventions. Better save up those airline miles. A division like this means that the information isn't being shared with everyone. It scares off newcomers to the hobby, the ones who'll be buying all those homebrews and repros now that the top collectors pretty much own everything already. If that's the case, the solution to this is very simple. Don't go to EITHER of the cons (Austin or CGE) this summer until both groups sit down and get over their stupid pissing war. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saikyo Posted April 13, 2004 Share Posted April 13, 2004 NovaXpress wrote Yes, those who just want to have fun with the hobby and avoid these pissing matches are the LAST people we need. is this just a typo or are you saying that the people who post in this forum who dont argue should leave? if this is true im going now! EDIT sorry if this sounds retarded Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Wolfe Posted April 13, 2004 Share Posted April 13, 2004 NovaXpress wroteYes, those who just want to have fun with the hobby and avoid these pissing matches are the LAST people we need. is this just a typo or are you saying that the people who post in this forum who dont argue should leave? if this is true im going now! EDIT sorry if this sounds retarded I'm fairly certain he was being sarcastic. sarcasm is also one of the reasons why fights begin bcause we have no way of knowing the person's intention. I am often guilty of that and its what got me into trouble last summer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tempest Posted April 13, 2004 Share Posted April 13, 2004 Was this the best time and place to raise the issue? Read the first line of my message. I wasn't going to bring this up at all until I got yet another magazine subscription in the mailbox that afternoon. It was Scott himeslf who forced my hand... Since it was becoming clear that ignoring the problem wasn't going to make it go away (as I've said, the person invovled seems to have some serious problems), I thought that maybe making it public would help him see the light. At first I had tried to contact him privately but was ignored. After that I tried to go through his friends (hoping they would talk some sense into him) and was lied to then publicly berated. After that I simply started ignoring him hoping that he would eventually lose interest. Trust me when I say that taking this public was the last thing I wanted to do, but I really had no choice. Tempest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MegaManFan Posted April 13, 2004 Share Posted April 13, 2004 Before things go any further in this direction, I'd like to say I don't agree with the sentiment that "Albert didn't need to say this" or "Albert could have kept this quiet" or "AA shouldn't air it's dirty laundry in public." I personally APPLAUD Albert for making this information public, because I knew there had been harassment of AA users both on and off the boards for some time. Making this information public isn't intended to start a war. What it does do is this: * Put an end to the harassment by taking the incidents public. * Protect other AA users from being harassed themselves. * Keep AA members vigilant to prevent harassment in the future. I'll only say this once so let's make this absolutely clear: Scott Stilphen != Digital Press. Whatever you might think of one should have absolutely nothing to do with the other. Scott Stiplhen is a troubled man with some personal problems he needs a forum to resolve, and that's not online. Take it from a man who had some anger management issues himself in college, it DOES help to talk to a trained mental health professional. I hope Scott gets the help he needs, I hope the harassment ends, and I hope people finally realize that this isn't about DP or a war between DP and AA. It's about ending some unnecessary bullshit good people like Mark, Albert, and Matt shouldn't have to deal with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tempest Posted April 13, 2004 Share Posted April 13, 2004 I'll only say this once so let's make this absolutely clear: Scott Stilphen != Digital Press. Whatever you might think of one should have absolutely nothing to do with the other For those who aren't programmers, != means "Not Equal". And let me just say that my problem is with Scott and Scott alone. I have nothing against the people who post over at DP. Once again, this should not be construed as some kind of "AA vs. DP" thing. Tempest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saikyo Posted April 13, 2004 Share Posted April 13, 2004 Ruddygore Said: I'm fairly certain he was being sarcastic. sarcasm is also one of the reasons why fights begin bcause we have no way of knowing the person's intention. I am often guilty of that and its what got me into trouble last summer. Thanks for informing me Ruddy it's just because i like to conform to the rules and regulations of these forums and dont want to become one of those "Physically Abusive" people that we want stamped out that i asked just to make sure everything is ok! Also i do think that you ae right arguments do seem to start a lot when people dont know what others are talking about! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jentzsch Posted April 13, 2004 Share Posted April 13, 2004 And let me just say that my problem is with Scott and Scott alone. I have nothing against the people who post over at DP. Once again, this should not be construed as some kind of "AA vs. DP" thing. Ok, maybe it's better to handle the sitaution step by step. I know, though he is very active on that board, Scott != DP. So maybe you can even get some help from DP to solve the problem too. That would be a really nice move from them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Wolfe Posted April 13, 2004 Share Posted April 13, 2004 Ruddygore Said:I'm fairly certain he was being sarcastic. sarcasm is also one of the reasons why fights begin bcause we have no way of knowing the person's intention. I am often guilty of that and its what got me into trouble last summer. Thanks for informing me Ruddy it's just because I like to conform to the rules and regulations of these forums and dont want to become one of those "Physically Abusive" people that we want stamped out that i asked just to make sure everything is ok! Also I do think that you ae right arguments do seem to start a lot when people dont know what others are talking about! One of the things we all seem to share in common aside from a love of classic gaming is a very good and often dark sense of humor. Many of us truly just want to laugh and have fun often at each others expense because as you know, making fun of say Al or Curt can be quite rewarding [jovial tags ON] I am willing to concede that I have at timess gone overboard with sarcasm at a time when no one really knew who I was and I am willing to publicly state for the record to all who will listen that my temper and sense of humor are very much in check and it is something I am actively working to monitor and I humbly apologize to any and all parties who's feathers I have ruffled in the past due to my own inabilty to articulate my true feelings in an on line forum. I'm not saying I am not still hurt over the events that caused me to get that way in the first place last sumer, but I am willing to admit and own up to my part in the aftermath of said events. -Mark Wolfe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tempest Posted April 13, 2004 Share Posted April 13, 2004 So maybe you can even get some help from DP to solve the problem too. That would be a really nice move from them. Re-read my message. I tried that the first time around... Tempest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jentzsch Posted April 13, 2004 Share Posted April 13, 2004 Re-read my message. I tried that the first time around... I know, but some times people change their minds, especially when there are new facts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacGurl Posted April 13, 2004 Share Posted April 13, 2004 Sorry, I know I promised to stay out of this AA/DP thing, but you know me, I can't keep quiet. First, let me say that I've made peace with Joe @ DP so I'm definitely not trying to stir things up with DP again. However, Scott is part of DP..an integral part. You'd be kidding yourself to think otherwise. He's a part of CGE. To think that the rest of the guys there know nothing of this is not likely. Whether or not the rest of DP has anything to do with this, you have to watch the company that you keep when you're a key figure in any hobby or industry. As more dirty laundry airs, it'll be interesting to see how DP reacts as their reputation could seriously be in jeopardy. As I said before, even if DP themselves have nothing to do with anything, which we'll probably find out is not true either, if they're supporting people and involving people that do things like we've seen in this thread, that will damage them as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orangest Posted April 13, 2004 Share Posted April 13, 2004 First, let me say that I've made peace with Joe @ DP so I'm definitely not trying to stir things up with DP again. ...even if DP themselves have nothing to do with anything, which we'll probably find out is not true either Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liquid_sky Posted April 13, 2004 Share Posted April 13, 2004 you know, the more that people come out of the woodwork to get offended when people just GUESS that there might be a DP connection (and might i add, people have GUESSED about things in all walks of both public and private life since the beginning of time) tends to be quite disadvantageous to your collective cause. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orangest Posted April 13, 2004 Share Posted April 13, 2004 i have no cause and am on no side; i dig both digital press and atari age, and have even contributed to atari age in the past. i just didn't see how the accusatory innuendo followed the stated intent of not trying to "stir things up" in this particular instance, that's all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saikyo Posted April 13, 2004 Share Posted April 13, 2004 orangest i second that i cant see anything wrong with Digital Press at all! people who use Digital Press simply need to get on with us Atariagers because after all said and done we like retrogaming so that means we should join together and exchange views and not quabble all the time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Siegler Posted April 13, 2004 Share Posted April 13, 2004 Can't we just have one big group hug? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Wolfe Posted April 13, 2004 Share Posted April 13, 2004 Can't we just have one big group hug? Only if you bathe first, Al makes good use of a breath mint and Curt promises to keep his hands above the waist! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tempest Posted April 13, 2004 Share Posted April 13, 2004 History Book Club came today. Fascinating reading. Too bad I didn't sign up for it... Tempest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scooterb23 Posted April 13, 2004 Share Posted April 13, 2004 The more I read, the more I believe that the people who keep the "war" going actually don't have any part of any of the issues that need to be dealt with. I'm actually beginning to wonder if there really is a rift between the two sites...or if it's all in just a few very bitter, and loud, people's heads... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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