Ideas for new games?

[Ze_ro]

Ever had an idea for a video game that you think would be amazingly fun, but it was never made, and you never thought you had what it took to make it yourself? Sure, we all have. So, if you have ever had an idea that you think could turn into a great new game for the 2600, post it here for everyone to see... you never know, maybe someone reading will like the idea so much they'll help you make it a reality! Keep in mind some of the limitations of the Atari. As many of you know, a lot of the limitations can be worked around (Pitfall 2 is a long way away from Combat), but don't say you want some 3D, texture mapped, gourad shaded, z-buffered, (insert buzzword here)'ed game for the year 3000

 

To be honest, most of the time I think of a nifty idea that could work on the Atari, it turns out to be almost a complete clone of an existing game, so I decide it's stupid and forget about it. For example, I thought it might be neat to create a type of space shooter game that used the driving controller for aiming, and a joystick for steering (Probably two players, or at least a four-armed individual)... but I decided it was too similar to both Asteroids and Cosmic Creeps, so I ashcanned my hopes. Basically, I was just hoping I could find some other use for that stupid Driving controller!

 

To get the ball rolling, here's my (real) game idea: Taxi Cab. The idea isn't really original, as I thought of it as porting Crazy Taxi to the 2600. I see it as an overhead driving game with "floaty" steering that allows you to slide around turns and other such fun things (Imagine Asteroids with friction). Of course, the limitations of the Atari will leave out a lot of the Dreamcast features behind... but hopefully all the scoring could be kept intact. I'm not sure exactly how/if Crazy Jumps could be implemented, but who knows.

 

I actually plan on programming this game eventually (Or at least, trying to program it), so please don't steal my idea... unless I still haven't done a damn thing a year from now, then consider yourself welcome If you want more details, I posted a thread in the programming forum.

 

--Zero

[khryssun]

First screenshots of my new game for the VCS Simulator will be relesased within 2 weeks... I hope

[mos6507]

The biggest challenge is coming up with a game design that hasn't been done to death on the 2600, let alone other classic game systems.

 

It's still possible to port over games that appeared elsewhere (like my idea with Death Race) but it's near impossible to find a game idea that has never been done before on any system (especially if you consider the 8-bit home computers which had so many 3rd party titles written for them over the years).

 

Even within the 2600's lifespan there was a lot of repetition in game designs, just reskinned or done slightly differently from game to game.

 

I think if you're going to do something that's already been done, it's still okay as long as you do it that much better than any other game on the 2600 did it. Implementation does matter.

 

Mixing genres is one way to find originality in the cracks between genres. Oystron is a good example of that. It takes the basic concepts from several games and puts it together. The Java applet JoustPong is another good example, mixing two totally different genres.

 

I also think starting out with the most abstract concepts and working inward is the way to go. The basic goals in a classic game:

 

- race

- collect objects

- destroy enemies

- protect friendly objects

- evade enemies

- put object through goalpost

- avoid others from putting objects through your goalposts

- volley/bounce (all pong/pinball games)

- pattern matching (for puzzle games)

 

This is a bit more substantial list than Rob Fulop's list of game primitives.

[Joel D. Park]

The more I think about it, there are a ton of folks who would love to write an Atari 2600 game but it's kind of a pain with all the clock counting and limitation of the VCS.

 

I have been doing quite a bit of research into doing a new game and even though I'm not ready to write a game yet, the other night everthing just "Clicked" and I was kind of able to understand what was going on..

 

I've been programming in Visual basic for quite a few years now. I wonder if there is a default enough set of Assembler and VCS rules that I (or someone like me) could write a VCS assmebler generator in VB. There is allready a VB application for drawing playfields which could be very easily integrated. We'd need a sprite drawing application, some kind of Psudo-Code language. All the actual compiling could be done with DASM running in the background.

 

Could be a very fun project, but I definately don't have the assembler skills yet.

[Ze_ro]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Glenn Saunders:

The biggest challenge is coming up with a game design that hasn't been done to death on the 2600, let alone other classic game systems.

---

 

This is the problem I ran into when I was trying to think of a good project to start with on the Atari. Every time I came up with an idea that wouldn't be overly difficult, I'd realize that it was basically Space Invaders with a slightly different theme. While that normally wouldn't be that bad, when you consider the limitations of the VCS, you realize the games would only be mildly different. I hope to eventually program a number of games, but have yet to think up any really unique ideas other than Taxi Cab (Which itself isn't terribly unique).

 

Either that, or all my ideas are too complicated to really be done decently on the 2600. I briefly thought of Robotron 2084 (One of my old favorites that was never on the 2600), but I'm sure everyone thought of that before they realized the 2600 can only really handle 2 sprites rather than the 5,000 that Robotron pretty much needs. Maybe one of these days I'll write a watered down version, but if it's obvious it would suck, then I'd rather not do it.

 

--Zero

[Ze_ro]

I just thought of another idea that might be possible on the VCS. Once again, it's pretty much a direct port of an existing game, but it hasn't been done on the VCS yet, so it might be interesting:

 

The game was Lords of Conquest on the Commodore 64 (and possibly others). It was essentially a Risk clone where you chose countries on a map, placed armies, and attacked your enemies to try to take control of the whole map. Now, games that use the whole screen are a little difficult on the Atari, and I haven't completely thought this one through yet, as I just thought it up 5 minutes ago... but I think it could be done without it sucking too badly. I can't think of any strategy/war games on the Atari at the moment.

 

One of my friends in real life suggested I make a game that basically consisted of flying around on bombing runs, and blowing the crap out of stuff. If you ignore the fact that he related it to recent events (He's quite opinionated), it actually could make for an interesting game, and wouldn't be too technically demanding for the Atari.

 

--Zero

[Inky]

I was thinking the old genesis game Desert Strike could probably work.. albeit watered down.

[Cousin Vinnie]

I think I have two killer ideas that are not rip offs (that I know about) for when someone comes out with all of the stuff we need to start making 7800 games. Then I need to learn code and all of that crap...but oh well, an idea is a start.

 

I will not share the ideas, but I will release the working titles:

 

Bad Guys, INC

Convoy Cutter

 

So....whoopie.

Cousin Vinnie www.bigfishusa.com

[+cvga]

I'd like to see someone create a version of Oil's Well for the Atari. I really enjoyed playing this game on the C-64 and later the Colecovision. It seems like it would be feasible for the 2600.

[Ze_ro]

I just thought of two other games that I would love to see ported to the Atari:

 

M.U.L.E. (Though this might be a little complicated, or at least require extra RAM on the cartridge or something)

 

... and one of my all-time arcade favorites:

 

Major Havoc! I know, I know... converting vector games for raster machines isn't always great... but this game was so good that I think it's well worth it. Maybe after I get Taxi Cab going (Y'know, a year or so from now ), I should work on this.

 

--Zero

[Tempest]

I actually thought about doing a Major Havoc inspired game for the 2600 when I first started programming. The first two stages wouldn't be a problem, but that last stage inside the space station would be almost impossible. I thought about doing a 5200 port, but that that's still beyond my abilities. Besides, I hear there may be a prototype of it anyway (it was started at least).

 

There are a ton of old obscure arcade games that would make great 2600 games. Games like Spiders, Red Clash, Jump Bug, Astro Invaders, R2D Tank, and Turtles all have potential. If they could do these on a substandard system like the Arcadia (I'm only being honest), then a 2600 port wouldn't be that hard.

 

Tempest

[+Cafeman]

If somebody is going to make new 2600 games, I'd like a new racer ala Enduro and Pole Position. But not a ripoff! Something with a fresh idea. Enduro is one of my top 5 Atari 2600 games, for good reason.

 

With more memory that is available for 2600 homebrews, plenty of good adventure games could still be written. I personally wouldn't mind making film license games like ET, or Jaws. But my console of choice is 5200... hint ..

[Hakogame 箱亀]

perhaps a watered down version of outrun would be possible, although the hills may have to be omitted.

[+Cafeman]

Hmm...

 

The Genesis can't even handle Outrun, but how it handles the animated terrain is by color cycling -- which is one thing that the atari can do just fine! I think a clever programmer could do a decent Outrun homage! After all, look at Enduro! Really, not much difference in concept. However, Outrun is a huge memory hog, there is a problem -- half the fun is seeing all the wonderfun scaling sprites and roadside objects, and different vehicles. That would be a good project, me thinks.

 

But then again, and this is just my opinion, since there are better ports of arcade games like Outrun on other systems, I feel like I'd rather see new ideas.

[Hakogame 箱亀]

how about a 2 player simultanious one guy drives and the other guy shoots at stuff type game?

[mos6507]

>>

how about a 2 player simultanious one guy drives and the other guy shoots at stuff type game?

<<

 

Coming up with innovative control schemes are a big part in designing unique games.

 

A lot of people are thinking too much about the theme of a new game vs. the underlying play mechanic.

 

I think what makes games great starts at the most abstract, quantum-like level. It's how the objects move, and the basic game rules and balance. It's possible to make a game from scratch without any sense of theme and leave that to the end. That's what happened with Oystron, which evolved out of a multisprite demo.

 

I think that's the better approach to take, and some of the more original games evolved that way, without a clearly defined notion of the end-product and having it evolve in an iterative process of experimentation and feedback from playtesting.

 

As it evolves, you decide what you want to keep and what you want to change. In the case of Oystron, the technical aspect of vertical separation and avoiding flicker reigned in the design into the slot-like movements. For other initial kernels that feature, let's say, an intelligent flicker routine, you'd end up with an entirely different game. The way the 2600 demands tradeoffs on the part of the programmers is what yields the wide variety of game experiences on that platform. On other platforms, especially newer ones, the capabilities are so wide open that an unfocused programmer can get lost in indecision.

 

This is, of course, NOT how game development happens today, but it's probably a key ingredient to the greatness of most classic games.

[Gunstar]

quote:

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Originally posted by Ze_ro:

 

Either that, or all my ideas are too complicated to really be done decently on the 2600. I briefly thought of Robotron 2084 (One of my old favorites that was never on the 2600), but I'm sure everyone thought of that before they realized the 2600 can only really handle 2 sprites rather than the 5,000 that Robotron pretty much needs. Maybe one of these days I'll write a watered down version, but if it's obvious it would suck, then I'd rather not do it.

 

--Zero

---

 

I'm not much of a programmer (a little basic years ago), but it seems to me that your limiting yourself and the 2600 by making statements like it couldn't be done because there are only 2 sprites. Asteriods has a lot of objects on the screen, sure it flickers, but so do most 2600 games. Heck, Megamania, Space Invaders, galaxian, Berserk, these all have multiple players more or less, I think a good version of Robotron could be done. If I remember correctly, the old Apple II computers didn't use stuff like sprites at all, and even it has some decent arcade style games on it (a few ).

[Ze_ro]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Tempest:

I actually thought about doing a Major Havoc inspired game for the 2600 when I first started programming. The first two stages wouldn't be a problem, but that last stage inside the space station would be almost impossible.

---

 

That worried me at first too, but you could easily water it down so that it's doable, and still fun. For example, you could throw in something like the Dragonfire treasure room, or a Berzerk kind of game. It may not be the same as the arcade version, but as long as it's still fun, that's all that matters.

 

quote:

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Originally posted by Cafeman

If somebody is going to make new 2600 games, I'd like a new racer ala Enduro and Pole Position. But not a ripoff!

---

 

Hmm... I'm not sure what you could do to a racing game to make it original. Racers have been sort of done to death (Especially considering on the Atari it'll probably all look pretty much the same anyways)

 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Gunstar

I'm not much of a programmer (a little basic years ago), but it seems to me that your limiting yourself and the 2600 by making statements like it couldn't be done because there are only 2 sprites.

---

 

Well, you have a point. I mean, if Pitfall 2 can be done on the Atari, then pretty much anything could be done. The only problem is that it would take a lot of skill to make a good Robotron clone, and I'm sure not up to the task...

 

--Zero

[mos6507]

Robotron can be done but there can't be complete freedom of movement for the enemies.

 

Assuming the enemies were created out of the two players, you could do single, double, or triple copies and then stagger them down the screen. They would need to remain vertically separated so they couldn't overlap.

 

They'd also have to be all of the same type for any set of guys.

 

So you could get a maximum of six enemies per scanline without flicker, plus you would have to use the ball, most likely, for your guy. Maybe the combination of the ball and a missile. So you could get 12 across with 30hz flicker, which is a pretty full display.

 

You might be able to animate the playfield for some guys, but it wouldn't animate smooth horizontally.

 

Another option is to try using Suicide Mission's Stipple Mode graphics, which would only work on the Supercharger, but yields a pretty decent bitmap display, albeit flickery and monochromatic.