Atari's Landfill Adventures, I now have the proof it's true.

[+Random Terrain]

i still havent seen anything compelling enough to make me doubt the original claims aside from people saying 'i cant / dont want/ to believe for reason (x)' where reason 'x' does nothing to refute the original claims and evidence.

945703[/snapback]

I don't understand why the original reporter would make it up. Was it the first day in April?

[Godzilla]

That's kind of my point really, that guy did a lot of work and got actual information. I have not seen one single shred of real information refuting his claims aside from 'well, I cant find the reporter now!, etc!' so??

[moycon]

To sell papers?

To help out a pal who was losing cash hand over foot, make a huge write off that year?

Has anyone figured out why in spite of having cameras and video none of these professionals could seem to capture anything other than crap images comparable to the Bigfoot or Lochn Ness Monster photos and videos?

Has anyone figured out why no-one at the time, even people that lived right there, even people that worked at Atari have done any more than heard about it?

Has anyone figured out why in spite of having to destroy millions of "un-sellable" carts they chose to re-release the game in 1986? LOL

 

I still havent seen anything compelling enough to make me blindly believe something so outrageous without 1 single shred of tangible evidence. Then again, I don't believe in Bigfoot or Loch Ness Monster either. Don't get me wrong, I'm more than willing to believe any of it with the proper proof.... Bigfoot, Loch Ness E.T...any of it. There will always those that just believe in something for no other good reason than they want to believe....and God bless you for it.

Edited October 10, 2005 by moycon

[+Random Terrain]

....and God bless you for it.

945773[/snapback]

There is no God. At least that's what I read in the paper.

[mos6507]

Has anyone figured out why in spite of having to destroy millions of "un-sellable" carts they chose to re-release the game in 1986? LOL

 

Different management. You think the Tramiels knew which titles would be best to rerelease?

[moycon]

Has anyone figured out why in spite of having to destroy millions of "un-sellable" carts they chose to re-release the game in 1986? LOL

 

Different management. You think the Tramiels knew which titles would be best to rerelease?

945823[/snapback]

 

So you would rather have me believe that the Tramiels would destroy and bury millions of perfectly good (not obsolete, not defective carts) ...In spite of the fact that they were about to open a HUGE warehouse in Ireland for international distribution of Atari product.... NOT because the cart actually lost them any money....NOT because they needed the warehouse space...but because they were just sucky at business management and didn't know what a gold-mine they were sitting on and it took some new blood to figure out E.T. wasn’t that bad?? PU-LEEEEZE.

[mos6507]

So you would rather have me believe that the Tramiels would destroy and bury millions of perfectly good

 

I don't know what you are talking about. The landfills happened under Ray Kassar.

 

Besides, for all we know, there may have been leftover E.T. carts in other warehouses which the Tramiels used for the rerelease. Atari was a huge company at that time and had facilities in different areas.

[moycon]

Besides, for all we know, there may have been leftover E.T. carts in other warehouses which the Tramiels used for the rerelease.

 

That's feasible.

Is there a way to tell when the boards were produced by looking at them?

[Spud]

I don't know what you are talking about. The landfills happened under Ray Kassar.

 

Besides, for all we know, there may have been leftover E.T. carts in other warehouses which the Tramiels used for the rerelease. Atari was a huge company at that time and had facilities in different areas.

945842[/snapback]

 

I wonder where Ray Kasser is now, he would know, maybe. He wouldn't have anything to hide after all these years. No reason not to tell us.

[mos6507]

I wonder where Ray Kasser is now, he would know, maybe. He wouldn't have anything to hide after all these years. No reason not to tell us.

945848[/snapback]

 

I know we're running in circles now, but I would think that the IRS or SEC would have some financial data relating to the tax writeoff.

[hookem]

i still havent seen anything compelling enough to make me doubt the original claims aside from people saying 'i cant / dont want/ to believe for reason (x)' where reason 'x' does nothing to refute the original claims and evidence.

945703[/snapback]

I don't understand why the original reporter would make it up. Was it the first day in April?

945705[/snapback]

I tend to wonder about the same thing... so I'm in the camp that believes it's true. Not that I would dedicate a lot of effort into proving/disproving it.

 

I mean there is the real newspaper story, and some reprints in other papers. There is a Snopes entry saying that it is true. For something like this, that's enough for me to believe it's true.

 

Arguments against it's truth seem weak to me:

 

Newspaper article is made up to sell papers - If so, why pick such a strange thing out of the blue to "make up"? Was there some big landfill craze around that time? Why would they think that would sell papers vs. some other sensational made-up story? Now I could definitely believe that it was embellished... maybe there weren't a million carts, or a bunch of 18 wheelers.. but there was some truth to it, and Atari did dump some inventory in the landfill, but it was really nothing spectacular.

 

The photos are poor, no one can find the reporter or anyone that was there, etc. - These arguments have a simple answer: No one really cares. It may have been a fairly mundane event for those involved, only hyped up for the people that read the story which makes it sound more interesting. Hence the actual people involved probably don't even think about what was a very forgettable episode, yet the people who remember it were just citizens there that remember the hype. So any actual witnesses are not at all thinking "I need to tell this story", and those looking for those actual witnesses/involved people just haven't expended the energy necessary to find them.

 

Why destroy a bunch of ETs if you plan to re-release it in 1986? - Companies don't do much planning that far ahead. Especially ones that have grown very quickly. As I recall, lots of software was being destroyed, it was (is) very common. It could easily be a one-year or even one-quarter decision, made for the benefit of the books. Furthermore, with a licensed deal like ET, they may have been able to avoid paying royalties by destroying the product. So if they had excess inventory, it is completely logical that they would need to destroy it. They wouldn't sit on it for even another year, if they could avoid the licensing fees and reduce their tax liability. So, if you believe they had too many ET carts in the warehouse, you really have to believe they were physically destroyed and disposed of. That only leaves 1 thing to question -- where? And why not a landfill 2 hours down the highway? Makes sense to me.

 

So, I guess if the story was false, I wouldn't believe it was because the newspaper writer made it up... I suppose with other evidence, I could believe that Atari made up the story, in order to prove they destroyed the inventory... when they really re-used the components or saved the inventory.

 

But without such evidence, there is really only one reasonable verdict: It's true. Perhaps the details in the story aren't completely true, but where there is smoke...

[Spud]

I have an idea. Since the Alamogordo paper ran the story about my inquires to the Atari/landfill story earlier this year. How about if we draft a story about it again, (with better writing) and ask for people who have heard about, was involved in it ect.. to email the site or set up a site just for it. It's still a small town and word would get around if a relative or friend of someone involved reads it.

(say....M.E. McQuiddy)

 

I'm positve the paper would run it. They need news there.

 

We can discuss it to death, well we probably have already, but until we get some new info were only going in circles.

 

So who wants to hel[ draft the article, maybe the website?

[Spud]

So who wants to hel[ draft the article, maybe the website?

945923[/snapback]

 

Help that is.

[hookem]

I have an idea. Since the Alamogordo paper ran the story about my inquires to the Atari/landfill story earlier this year. How about if we draft a story about it again, (with better writing) and ask for people who have heard about, was involved in it ect..  to email the site or set up a site just for it. It's still a small town and word would get around if a relative or friend of someone involved reads it.

(say....M.E. McQuiddy)

 

I'm positve the paper would run it. They need news there.

 

We can discuss it to death, well we probably have already, but until we get some new info were only going in circles.

 

So who wants to hel[ draft the article, maybe the website?

945923[/snapback]

This would probably fall in the category of trying too hard This is one of those "best leave it, unsolved..." situations.

 

But I guess you could organize a classic gaming convention there? That would probably cause weeks of press, maybe someone would see something. Would be a neat place to have a con... sort of like the UFO conventions in Roswell.

 

First Annual Atari Landfill Adventurers Classic Gaming Convention?

 

In fact, there are some neat things to do nearby Alamogordo... there is Roswell, casinos, and skiing at Ruidoso only about an hour or two away. So the attendees would have other stuff to do.

Edited October 11, 2005 by hookem

[mos6507]

Bump

[JimmydelaKopin]

Some more info, perhaps to cloud, perhaps to clarify...

 

I found this in the Sept. 1993 issue of Video Games. According to Howard Wen, what was dumped in the landfill was not just E.T. cartridges. According to his article, "defective" 2600s, 5200s, and games (Pac-Man and E.T. are mentioned), and Atari computers were all dumped in the NM landfill.

The landfill is said to be about 100 miles away from El Paso, Texas, which is where the "defective" merchandise is said to have originated.

It's supposed to be 11 truckloads, all crushed under bulldozers, with security guards keeping away onlookers...and the reason New Mexico was chosen is because the state had a law against landfill scavenging, while Texas doesn't, which is why they didn't use the landfill 15 miles from the El Paso plant.

 

Don't know how much this adds to the discussion...but, perhaps with the right map...the landfill can be discovered?

[A.J. Franzman]

Some more info, perhaps to cloud, perhaps to clarify...

 

I found this in the Sept. 1993 issue of Video Games. According to Howard Wen, what was dumped in the landfill was not just E.T. cartridges.  According to his article, "defective" 2600s, 5200s, and games (Pac-Man and E.T. are mentioned), and Atari computers were all dumped in the NM landfill.

The landfill is said to be about 100 miles away from El Paso, Texas, which is where the "defective" merchandise is said to have originated.

It's supposed to be 11 truckloads, all crushed under bulldozers, with security guards keeping away onlookers...and the reason New Mexico was chosen is because the state had a law against landfill scavenging, while Texas doesn't, which is why they didn't use the landfill 15 miles from the El Paso plant.

 

Don't know how much this adds to the discussion...but, perhaps with the right map...the landfill can be discovered?

954317[/snapback]

Finding the location of the landfill is not the hard part; locating the Atari items within the landfill will be the toughest challenge. Without some super technology (or a LOT of man/machine power) and a lot of luck, I think the only way to find it will be to make contact with an interested eyewitness or participant. So far we haven't found any.

[iguana]

cool thread. I tend to believe this story. for a couple of reasons.

 

1st at the time there was little resale value in those carts. Carts were going for very small amounts and the price would not really cover shipping them, and the risk that they would be coming back from retailers. It is not uncommon at all for businesses to throw away product in order to take the tax break. The tax break was probably more than the profit margin so it make perfect business sense to throw them out.

 

2nd. Destroying them (crushing and burying) makes perfect sense in that scenario. The last thing needed would be these carts out in the public. It would be a PR nightmare to admit that you failed miserably in your business model. Wall street would not look favorably at it, and at this time there were already many issues with Atari on the street. Best to destroy the evidence. It is also not uncommon to destroy the merchandise. Examples include Chuck E Cheese destruction of Video games.

 

3rd there is not reason at all to suspect that a reporter would make up this story. It only makes atari look bad so it is not helping them. Who would benefit from the story? no one I can think of.

 

I do not think that only ET carts were there. I am sure it was just a Hodge podge of different stuff they wanted to get rid of. I think it fits Kassar's MO and Atari's MO. They both were holding on by finger tips. Kassar probably wanted to hide the fact that there was huge amounts of unmoving product. After all he did have some insider trading issue later so it would not shock me that he tried to manipulate the corporate perception. This just justifies the "secrecy" in which this operation was conducted in.

[silverpoodleman]

A little interpretive, modern art here -

 

I am a dead horse - ---...---...----stop STOP STOOPPPPPPP BEATING ME!!!!! !! ! !!!!! !!!!! !!!

[Inky]

I have a proposal....

 

Move ALL the threads about ET and ET / Landfill to its own forum.

[iguana]

I have a proposal....

 

Move ALL the threads about ET and ET / Landfill to its own forum.

955501[/snapback]

you are a anti-extraterrestialist Inky. E.T. should be shown the same respect that the mad bomber or Adventure Square get.

[rbudrick]

For all those that think this topic has been beaten to death, there are many who are still very interested in it. If you don't like the topic, there's really no one forcing you to read or post. Though not everyone in the world who is interested in this topic is posting here, there are millions across the world who are interested, and would like to see this solved definitively, once and for all. I tend to think they outnumber the folks who would cry "dead horse." This is a topic of true historical significance, so no matter who doesn't like people talking about it, it should still be investigated until solved. What possible benefit would there be to just stopping all conversation on it? For those for this discussion, let's please carry on. For those against it, please leave those of us who are for it alone.

 

Also, I wanted to point out that there has been far more evidence thus far to indicate the story is true than there has been to the opposite effect. To try to defame a local newspaper by saying they made up a story because they wanted to "sell papers" is bordering on slanderous, and is likely insulting to the locals. Sure, Atari could have been cheating on their taxes and just "saying" they buried this stuff (there's been plenty of evidence for other illegal activities at Atari at the time, so who knows?...Lord knows some shady people worked there at the time). But to defame a local paper in this manner without any evidence to implicate them is foolish and just shows one's willingness to needlessly remain in denial.

 

There was an excellent idea posted before....if someone could convince the paper to ask people to come forward about the whole ordeal via a new article, it may help kill a worldwide local myth...that is truly a story for a small locality...it could very likely be important to the people who live there to get this. Just an idea, but plausible. Someone could call the editor...they love talking to people who might have a story.

 

Another thing, why was no one diligently trying to contact the reporter? Hell, give me his/her phone number. I'll gladly try to call.

 

-Rob

[Atari Rescue Group]

Some more info, perhaps to cloud, perhaps to clarify...

 

I found this in the Sept. 1993 issue of Video Games. According to Howard Wen, what was dumped in the landfill was not just E.T. cartridges.  According to his article, "defective" 2600s, 5200s, and games (Pac-Man and E.T. are mentioned), and Atari computers were all dumped in the NM landfill.

The landfill is said to be about 100 miles away from El Paso, Texas, which is where the "defective" merchandise is said to have originated.

954317[/snapback]

 

Perhaps some more sniffing around El Paso is necessary.

Though not everyone in the world who is interested in this topic is posting here, there are millions across the world who are interested, and would like to see this solved definitively, once and for all.

959401[/snapback]

An interesting story regardless, but millions interested is probably a gross overestimate. I'm guessing 10-20 thousand tops. If it was found to be true then the public as a whole wouldn't give a hoot -- old news from a defunct company.

[maibock]

Has anyone suggested this to MythBusters?

 

Might be something interesting for them to try to uncover. Although looking at their forums under "ideas already submitted" there seems to be a lot of myths submitted for them to bust. <aybe we should give it a shot?

[Artlover]

The bottom line is no one will ever know until....

 

Someone goes there, dig's up the landfill on video (CLEAR video, not some 1920's 20x20 monochrome lightbulb camera) and actually sees it with their own eyes.

 

That is the ONLY way this is ever going to be solved, as there is just simply no pure verifiable evidence out there. Vague newspaper articles that might not even be true and can't be verified and fuzzy pictures that are so horrid you wouldn't have been able to tell if it had been photoshopped by a retarded monkey are not proof of anything.

 

So if everyone really wants to know, then go to NM and find out what needs to be done to get the special permits that would be required to dig up a land fill there, and get started on it.

 

Otherwise, it's a complete waste of time and effort to bother with the debate.