AtariNerd Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 I'd assume that they would have probed/sample-cored the area to help locate the remnants. If so, the concrete layer likely wound up going from an insult-to-injury in their disposal, to actually being a significant help in the recovery, even if a hindrance in doing so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris++ Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 “This discovery will no doubt bring closure to some very strange and lonely people.” Phoebe Deagle Fictional Onion interviewee 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unbeliever Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 *backs away slowely* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Serious Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 Ok, I'm asking for honest opinions: Is there something wrong with me for wanting to own one of these landfill treasures? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joeh1974 Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 (edited) Just popping on quick, not really on this site anymore except to check personal messages. Mostly over in the Atari Museum group on Facebook. Since I have a connection to the recent dig, wanted to make some comments/share some info. Curt and I are actually helping out with resources for the documentary, plus I was supposed to help out with the dig but could not make it down. I did lend one of my ROM switching carts though, and was in contact with everyone during the process including some of the ex-Atari people on site. 1) The location dug up was next to the concrete cap, they didn't dig into the main concrete cap area. They dug down towards the main layer the Atari portion of the landfill was in on Friday and saved the actual digging up of that layer for Saturday. 2) Some of the important ex-Atarians there were of course Howard Scott Warshaw, Jerry Jessop, and Jim Heller. Jim was probably the most important, he was the Atari person responsible for the dumping and the eventual steamrolling and covering with concrete. Jim brought with him the original paperwork, which verified there were only 728,000 games dumped there. Not "millions" and only a small portion of those were ET. The rest of the truckloads were the previously mentioned consoles, computers, peripherals and parts. It should be interesting to note that a lot of the kids who originally looted were actually there as well (with the carts they originally took and/or ROM chips taken from crushed carts) and many are now city officials. 3) There was a team of actual archeologists leading the dig efforts (volunteers from various universities). They are the ones in charge of cataloging what was found and compiling the final list. 4) In total there were 21+ titles cataloged from the dig (I'm still waiting for the final list) and it included Atari 5200 titles as well. These were everywhere from individually retailer shrink-wrapped boxed carts to full Atari shipping boxes of titles. There was also various peripherals recovered in the day's dig as well. Here is my current list of found titles, based on my direct talks with people there and the photos that made it out. I will be getting the official list, but can't release it until after the documentary. Atari 2600 --------------- Adventure Asteroids Air-Sea Battle Berzerk Centipede Circus Atari Combat Defender Dodge 'Em Haunted House Human Cannonball Maze Craze Missile Command Night Driver Pac-Man Pele's Soccer Phoenix Raiders of the Lost Ark Real Sports: Football Space Invaders Star Raiders (with the original video touch pad pack in) Super Breakout Superman Swordquest: Fireworld Vanguard Warlords Yars' Revenge Atari 5200 --------------- Defender QIX Robotron Hardware wise: 2600 parts, joysticks, paddles, driving controllers, video touch pads 5) Also verified: This was not a dump trying to hide mass amounts of Atari's stock from it's warehouses. This was all returned stock from retailers, and many of the individual items still had the shrink wrap and store price tags on them. For those not familiar, Atari did not ship games shrink wrapped, those were usually added on by retailers when the items were to be put on the shelves. Rather, large shipping boxes full of an individual title were shipped to retailers, and many of these large retailer boxes can be seen in the photos as well. It verifies another thing as well that we were told repeatedly during interviews and wrote about: Atari Inc. had nothing in place for returns (return of unsold stock by retailers for credit), because they hadn't dealt with the notion of large scale returns before. So they declared the stock "defective" and gave it to El Paso, since the El Paso plant was also the Atari Service Center hub., so these returns were simply marked off as "defective units" and given to the Service Center hub for disposal. Being the Service Center hub, it would have dealt with all "defective" products. Hence what was reported in the newspapers at the time about Atari officially stating it was all "defective merchandise" being disposed of was technically accurate. As for Andre181's question, again this wasn't unsold stock/overstock from Atari's warehouses. Many still had the shrinkwrap and price stickers from their respective retailers still on them. This was stock returned from retailers for credit (similar to what's often done in other industries like toys and books). That type of thing usually never gets recycled back out to retailers, and the tax write off on returned "defective" merchandise is usually more desirable. Likewise it would have zero bearing on manufacturing, as was already shown there wasn't much of a manufacturing vs. warehouse logistics/tracking system in place anyways. Additionally it's a little odd for Andre to discredit our entire book based on his misinterpretation of our research and what we did or did not ask or had as a resource, and I'm actually quite surprised at that attitude given our previous interactions in PM. However, that type of attitude is one of several reasons I'm not really on here much any more. 6) We were just as surprised at the relatively good condition of a lot of the materials recovered. However they weren't as good as many of you are taking them as. A lot of the cartridge casings were warped (can't tell if it's from the original crushing or just from the elements) and the actual electronics in them were very corroded. The team responsible for testing the sample of games that were kept couldn't get any to work at the time (Saturday night and Sunday), including after desoldering the game ROMs from the PCBs and putting them in my ROM switching cartridge. Thanks for the additional info, and confirmation on a few items that I had posted. Also thanks for the additional info about trying to tests the carts (I had left ~4pm or so and hadn't seen any testing yet). BTW, the books sounds interesting. Since I'm new here, can anyone give me the title? Edited April 30, 2014 by Joeh1974 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andre81 Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 (edited) 5) Also verified: This was not a dump trying to hide mass amounts of Atari's stock from it's warehouses. This was all returned stock from retailers, and many of the individual items still had the shrink wrap and store price tags on them. For those not familiar, Atari did not ship games shrink wrapped, those were usually added on by retailers when the items were to be put on the shelves. Rather, large shipping boxes full of an individual title were shipped to retailers, and many of these large retailer boxes can be seen in the photos as well. It verifies another thing as well that we were told repeatedly during interviews and wrote about: Atari Inc. had nothing in place for returns (return of unsold stock by retailers for credit), because they hadn't dealt with the notion of large scale returns before. So they declared the stock "defective" and gave it to El Paso, since the El Paso plant was also the Atari Service Center hub., so these returns were simply marked off as "defective units" and given to the Service Center hub for disposal. Being the Service Center hub, it would have dealt with all "defective" products. Hence what was reported in the newspapers at the time about Atari officially stating it was all "defective merchandise" being disposed of was technically accurate. As for Andre181's question, again this wasn't unsold stock/overstock from Atari's warehouses. Many still had the shrinkwrap and price stickers from their respective retailers still on them. This was stock returned from retailers for credit (similar to what's often done in other industries like toys and books). That type of thing usually never gets recycled back out to retailers, and the tax write off on returned "defective" merchandise is usually more desirable. Likewise it would have zero bearing on manufacturing, as was already shown there wasn't much of a manufacturing vs. warehouse logistics/tracking system in place anyways. Additionally it's a little odd for Andre to discredit our entire book based on his misinterpretation of our research and what we did or did not ask or had as a resource, and I'm actually quite surprised at that attitude given our previous interactions in PM. However, that type of attitude is one of several reasons I'm not really on here much any more. This story is totally different from the one you told previously. You said they disposed stock manufactured at El Paso. You said they cleared out the warehouse when they stopped the game manufacturing in El Paso and retooled the factory. You never mentioned before that this was returned stock. You also don't mention the number 728,000 in your book nor the name Jim Heller. Also Atari did shrinkwrap the silver box games. I never tried to discredit your book. I never denied that you tried to be as accurate as possible based on the available information. But as it has been proven the book was not 100% complete and accurate. And probably never will be, because it tries to recap events that happened 30 years ago. Edited April 30, 2014 by Andre81 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris++ Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 Ok, I'm asking for honest opinions: Is there something wrong with me for wanting to own one of these landfill treasures? Nah. Who are you hurting? Besides, it might make for a great investment. It's possible that it will fetch three or four digits in a few years, from someone who truly does have something wrong with him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mirage Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 (edited) Ok, I'm asking for honest opinions: Is there something wrong with me for wanting to own one of these landfill treasures? Like I think I mentioned before, if they go on sale at some point, and are somehow certified as authentic, and are for around $10 (I would think the city would have to sell them for that since that's what they stated the value as, and it may hurt their "donation" amount otherwise -- if it's the city selling them), I will probably buy one. But, that doesn't mean there's nothing wrong with you, it's more likely to mean there's something wrong with both of us. Edited April 30, 2014 by Mirage Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldSchoolRetroGamer Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 (edited) THIS sums up the reality of the situation better than anything I have yet seen so far. THIS is what I recall more accurately than all the recent "MYTH / HOAX / LEGEND" videos and articles that are popping up on the subject. [media]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t48DB9NRc60[/media] Edited May 1, 2014 by OldSchoolRetroGamer 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asaki Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 I would certainly buy a landfill cartridge if it wasn't too expensive...but I'm sure they will be. Sure, it's garbage, but it's historic garbage. Also, I take it this means that the story of the "real" landfill being underneath a WalMart is incorrect? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andromeda Stardust Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 @Andre: Please stop trying to discredit Curt and Marty's book. When you've done years of research and sifted through mountains of documents, conducted hundreds of interviews, then your words will have the salt to back them up. Until then, you are merely a self-proclaied backseat "expert" with no hard facts to back your words. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+wood_jl Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 Just popping on quick, not really on this site anymore except to check personal messages. Mostly over in the Atari Museum group on Facebook. Since I have a connection to the recent dig, wanted to make some comments/share some info. 5... However, that type of attitude is one of several reasons I'm not really on here much any more. Hi, as usual your posts are top-notch. Please, *NOT* Facebook instead of AtariAge!!! This is the place where your information belongs. Most AA users appreciate what you have to say. "So what" if a couple people have some attitude. The vast majority do not. You can't find a better audience than here, for any Atari information that you have. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Random Terrain Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 Hi, as usual your posts are top-notch. Please, *NOT* Facebook instead of AtariAge!!! This is the place where your information belongs. Most AA users appreciate what you have to say. "So what" if a couple people have some attitude. The vast majority do not. You can't find a better audience than here, for any Atari information that you have. youtube.com/watch?v=DlFQvbHVk5o https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DlFQvbHVk5o Genre: Pop, R&B, bubblegum, blue-eyed soul [not disco] 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+frankodragon Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 Someone on Youtube had a good idea: Bury all the Justin Bieber albums in place of all the Atari carts in that landfill. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilaskey Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 Hi, as usual your posts are top-notch. Please, *NOT* Facebook instead of AtariAge!!! This is the place where your information belongs. Most AA users appreciate what you have to say. "So what" if a couple people have some attitude. The vast majority do not. You can't find a better audience than here, for any Atari information that you have. Plus not everyone is on Facebook, nor wants to be. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jentzsch Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 Plus not everyone is on Facebook, nor wants to be. /signed 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nukey Shay Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 /seeled 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Random Terrain Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 /sealed /delivered [For people reading this in the future, when you look two posts down, IHATETHEBEARS is probably talking about the Incredible Atari ad.] 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotterpop Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 /I'm yours! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IHATETHEBEARS Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 How about that? Two Stevie Wonder references in this forum on the same day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mos6507 Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 (edited) True enough, as you can see the Bigfoot and Loch Ness Monster shows continue to this day! I think it's pretty safe to say however millions of E.T. carts were never buried anywhere, and the game did not single-handedly kill the video game market. People might disagree and that fine. Not unlike Bigfoot research, the ET myth research and digging will have to continue. This thread will never die!! 700K carts is still a lot of stuff. Just because it's not all ET carts doesn't invalidate the story completely. The story was merely a simplification and exaggeration in order to better fit the drama of the videogame crash. I have dealt with this "fog of war" aspect in trying to piece together much more recent IT history--the crash and burn of Xtranormal. Like Rashomon, I communicated with a lot of ex-employees (and even their liquidator who is here in the Boston area) and they all relate similar stories, but no two stories are truly identical, and the blame shifts around. As Joe Decuir says, success has a thousand fathers but failure is an orphan. And this is with events that don't even extend back a full decade! E.T. is ultimately stories of hubris. I'm not sure what the actual figures of how many carts they overproduced and how many were crushed or went through some other liquidation stage. To fixate on absolute figures misses the point, though. The underlying theme of getting a film license, rushing a game through R&D, and just assuming the thing would be a hit and overproducing carts is the moral of the story, and factually true at its core. Edited May 1, 2014 by mos6507 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andromeda Stardust Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 (edited) youtube.com/watch?v=DlFQvbHVk5o https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DlFQvbHVk5o Osbornes Osmonds of Osborne Computing? Typo, LOL! One bad Apple don't spoil the whole bunch... I don't normally like disco but the song ain't half bad. Still like Ozzy Osborne better! He's one bad apple... Edited May 1, 2014 by stardust4ever Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss 2600 Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 I didn't know about the Atari Museum page on Facebook. Sent a request to join. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moycon Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 700K carts is still a lot of stuff. Just because it's not all ET carts doesn't invalidate the story completely. Sorry it does. You're not familiar with the myth apparently? You know the one where ET caused the video game crash, was so terrible most people returned the game, that Atari produced more games than systems, the sea of ET's... etc...etc... You want to change that myth to fit the evidence, I get it. You wouldn't be the first. Here's the thing. One person, even a handful of people can't change a myth based on their belief. It doesn't work that way. The media declaring this proof that the myth was true, based on the dig are clueless. Don't stoop so low to include yourself as one the clueless. Research at least a little bit if you're unsure. (Unlike the "professionals" reporting the nonsense) All that said. The real myth will never be invalidated though because as Thomas pointed out, people (even yourself) can continue searching! Good luck. Post your results here !! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
high voltage Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 (edited) ET sales still going strong eBay Auction -- Item Number: 141273949240 eBay Auction -- Item Number: 360919662113 Edited May 2, 2014 by high voltage Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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