MattyXB Posted January 22, 2002 Share Posted January 22, 2002 I think this is no Prototype. What do you think? Atari 2600 - Cruise Missile - Prototype ! This Chip look like the Quelle game that I have and is not working. So I think this is no Prototype. The game has a normale Lable. Only Diffrent I see, that this game is made in Taiwan, if I see it in the buttom left. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moycon Posted January 22, 2002 Share Posted January 22, 2002 Wow. I had no idea that opening a game cartridge and exposing the innards made it a proto-type. I have 100's of proto-types and I didnt even know it!!! WooHoo!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattyXB Posted January 22, 2002 Author Share Posted January 22, 2002 If I think about it, I must open all my near 400 games. Then I have more Prototypes too. Lol But I think this is no Prototype. No EPROM, no special board, nothing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tempest Posted January 22, 2002 Share Posted January 22, 2002 That little epoxy blob is just the Cart (chip?) On Board technology that replaced the huge chips you use to see inside carts. Apperently it was cheaper to make them that way. I don't know who started the rumor that these are prototypes, but take it from the master, they ain't! Besides, Cruise Missile is really just Exocet which was originally an Ultravision game (unreleased). If there's any real prototypes of it out there it would be from Ultravision not Froggo. Tempest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
videotwit Posted January 22, 2002 Share Posted January 22, 2002 I think it was actually started by Randy at Hozer. He started with a theory that they were test versions of relese games that were mixed in with the final products. Read about it here. We already had a big discussion on this topica a while ago, which was fairly interesting. I think that Tempest is correct in stating that they were actually later runs to reduce costs, and not earlier runs as Randy proposes. (But hey, if they are prototypes, I have 4 Pac-Man protos sitting on my desk at home right now! I'll gladly sell them for the low price of just $150 each -- a bargain at twice the price.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eckhard Stolberg Posted January 22, 2002 Share Posted January 22, 2002 Tempest, are you sure that Exocet was originally an Ultravision game? I think it was also released by Tang Electronics Co. under their Sancho label. I always thought that the Sancho games were legit and original. Ultravision and Froggo seemed to me more like distributors of the same pirate games that everyone else had too. Ciao, Eckhard Stolberg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marco(2) Posted January 22, 2002 Share Posted January 22, 2002 quote: Originally posted by twit: We already had a big discussion on this topica a while ago, which was fairly interesting. I think that Tempest is correct in stating that they were actually later runs to reduce costs, and not earlier runs as Randy proposes. We never really concluded that discussion, iirc. Problem with The Master's theory is that there are multiple copies of this 'blob' format of Atari's Donald Duck around, which we all can agree is a prototype. So Tempest could be right about the later stage thing, but that does not necessarily mean it's not a prototype any longer. Or am I overlooking something here? Cheers, Marco Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
videotwit Posted January 22, 2002 Share Posted January 22, 2002 quote: Originally posted by Marco: We never really concluded that discussion, iirc. Problem with The Master's theory is that there are multiple copies of this 'blob' format of Atari's Donald Duck around, which we all can agree is a prototype. Hmmm... I never heard that. Were these found by the folks at Best Electronics? What were the differences? I'd personally like to resurrect the topic if there is interest, and any other theories or thoughts on the matter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tempest Posted January 22, 2002 Share Posted January 22, 2002 Is Donald Duckt he only unreleased prototype to be found as an epoxy blob? If so it could have something to do with the fact that Polyvox released it apperently with Atari's permission. It could also be possible that Best was able to make these as well (I don't know how hard that would be). As for the Ultravision Exocet thing I'll check, but I'm 99% sure that it started out life as an unreleased Ultravision game. Tempest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Callipygous Posted January 22, 2002 Share Posted January 22, 2002 For Atari home computers (my only cart collection), have only seen "a blob" once. It was none other than the famous "Bounty Bob Strikes Back". The cart had the screw hole exposed, so I could not resist opening it up. Was very surprised to see a "Bounty Blob" in there . BBSB being a 40K program, how did they fit it in that itty-bitty chip? Always attributed it to some mid-eighties technology advance, not a prototype of any kind. In fact, reading the Big Five website description of their development system, it seems doubtful that they did any rom/eprom prototypes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marco(2) Posted January 22, 2002 Share Posted January 22, 2002 I vaguely remember that someone posted about other 'blob' protos... Sean? Scott? Anyone... Cheers, Marco Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lemmi Posted January 22, 2002 Share Posted January 22, 2002 I AM HERE! (Scott) ok that was a bad take on Marco's joke from a previous day and i have no clue about protos Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cx2k Posted January 23, 2002 Share Posted January 23, 2002 quote: Originally posted by Marco: Problem with The Master's theory is that there are multiple copies of this 'blob' format of Atari's Donald Duck around, which we all can agree is a prototype. So Tempest could be right about the later stage thing, but that does not necessarily mean it's not a prototype any longer. Or am I overlooking something here? I disagree Marco. The blob was a cost-saving measure that Atari implemented. As far as I'm concerned, many of the protos sold by Best are not protos at all. I believe that Atari was in the early production phase of Donald Duck and actually had a run of the game made. For whatever reason, it didn't come out and Best bought the inventory along with all the other goodies they got from Atari over the years. Then they just slapped them in cases. To call it a true prototype would be wrong. They are actually just unreleased games. Another example would be all of the Quadrun's that Best sold. Does anyone wonder why so many of this particular title have shown up? If you open a Best Quadrun proto, you'll likely find a regular Quadrun production board inside. No eproms, etc. Most likely these had never been assembled into final carts as well. In my opinion if the proto doesn't have an eprom board and eproms, it ain't a proto. On a similarly related note, has anyone noticed the glut of Best protos and other "guaranteed genuine" protos on ebay right now. Looks like people are getting rid of them and passing them on to whatever sucker will take them. John PS. I am not saying that all Best protos are not real protos. I've gotten many legit protos from them in the past. I just think we need to differentiate in some cases between a true proto and an unreleased game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cx2k Posted January 23, 2002 Share Posted January 23, 2002 quote: Originally posted by Tempest: Is Donald Duck the only unreleased prototype to be found as an epoxy blob? If so it could have something to do with the fact that Polyvox released it apperently with Atari's permission. Matt, What proof do you have of the fact that Polyvox released Donald Duck? (other than it says so here on Atari Age). I think that's rubbish and am hoping someone can prove me wrong. Believe me I want to be wrong. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tempest Posted January 23, 2002 Share Posted January 23, 2002 I could have sworn that I saw a picture somewhere and it's in the DP guide. You guys aren't lying to me are you? ARE YOU??? I'll dig around for that pic. Tempest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jahfish Posted January 23, 2002 Share Posted January 23, 2002 those blobs are tipically used after the chips got smaller. back then the industry had found a new way to fix their chips with special metal glue instead of soldering them. this has made the way of producing boards must faster and cheaper. you'll also find these in the dukes of hazard "prototypes" .... i was told that these boards were normally produced in quantities around 10000 pcs. so here, we should make a clear distinction between all these different definitions: "unreleased prototypes"? ....... i think never existed. prototypes (of games) are unfinished games. so there has only been prototypes of released or unreleased games ... in the CCE discussion we talked about prototypes of unreleased games. that definition makes more sense actually mission impossible might be the one you can count as released prototype, as the games has a bug / wasn't finished. then comes the interesting point: while some protos have only surface in minimal quantities (that's how it makes sense, why would you have 500 copies of a games that's not yet finished?), there's others that just turn up at least monthly or (in my taste) too often. games like donald duck or dukes of hazard, with "blob boards" ...... i was told (too often) these boards are just regular production boards and were surely produced in larger quantities (probably around 10000 pcs.). best is supposed to have picked some of these, and that's how they landed in the moon patrol, pole position or other cases. best might not have the 10000 boards, but they surely have a lot. so at the end, the clue should lie in these chips. under the blob, we know, there are ceramic chips, just as randy also stated in his article on his site. and i would say (i'm not an expert) that ceramic chips are a product of the mid-eighties. so mid-eighties in this case means after-crash. and that's my theory: these are all (atari & froggo) after-crash regular production boards that were either released or not released anymore. a simple explanation would be that after the crash, games went so cheap that atari couldn't afford to pay the rights for donald duck or bugs bunny. there was no more room in the desert for walt disney merchandise products. and they had already produced the boards for some of those planned cartridges. the best example is probably dukes of hazard. whether sold in an old case with the "atari" sticker on the screwholes or with this selfmade label, it has the blob. now these other strange rom chips that randy mentions .... they could possibly be pre-production chips, what makes them pre-blob "testpressings" but not necessary prototypes. compare it to music. you have testpressings (=loaner/press carts) so you and the involved people can check the sound and the quality. it's pressed on a different material than the original recording and gets another label, but is actually pressed from the same master. often the regular record is allready in production too and small errors are not corrected anymore (see a relation to mission impossible?). while the "prototype" of the tracks can only be the artists DAT tape or track before he went to the studio, and maybe the tapes he recorded in between working in the studio to check out what he's been doing while driving home. now another thing comes on top: prototype would mean that the programmers had their hands on this board, probably changing the eproms a few times, probably putting on a sticker with names or dates or numbers, .... now why should a bid company get the idea to take these few boards and send them all the way to asia just to put them in carts to be sold cheaply again? (remember we're talking after-crash) ok guys, your turn again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cx2k Posted January 23, 2002 Share Posted January 23, 2002 quote: Originally posted by Tempest: I could have sworn that I saw a picture somewhere and it's in the DP guide. You guys aren't lying to me are you? ARE YOU??? I'll dig around for that pic. Tempest Well kick me in the ass! It is the DP guide. But it's in that hack foreign section that I had nothing to do with. o.k. Marco, that's your area, so either you or Roloff needs to fess up. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jahfish Posted January 23, 2002 Share Posted January 23, 2002 donal duck exists from polyvox. i think i remember getting overbidden on an auction for it ..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Weis Posted January 23, 2002 Share Posted January 23, 2002 "jahfish donal duck exists from polyvox. i think i remember getting overbidden on an auction for it ...." the one you got outbid on was by dactar..not polyvox....... YES... it was ME!! Take Care, Rick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JCroniger Posted January 23, 2002 Share Posted January 23, 2002 I have a Donald Duck Speedboad from Digivsion. It is a 2-gamer. I think the other game on the cart is Pole Position. Here's an interesting note, when playing the game, the graphics change into blocks but then quickly change back. Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marco(2) Posted January 23, 2002 Share Posted January 23, 2002 Indeed, there's several different Donald Duck releases on the Brazil market. Remarkably, the only release that can be found on several lists, the one by Polyvox, yet has to surface. I'm getting a boxed Donald Duck from Brazil soon, don't know which brand, so who knows... Cheers, Marco Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marco(2) Posted January 23, 2002 Share Posted January 23, 2002 quote: Originally posted by CX2K: In my opinion if the proto doesn't have an eprom board and eproms, it ain't a proto. I guess it's a matter of definition. Intrigueing consequence of your definition is that, say, an early "prototype" of Moon Patrol is more interesting than the "just unreleased game" Donald Duck. Bit counter-intuitive (people like "prototypes" better). However, if Donald Duck is the only game that falls into the category "unreleased non-prototype" there's little reason to make an issue out of this Cheers, Marco Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
videotwit Posted January 23, 2002 Share Posted January 23, 2002 quote: Originally posted by Marco: ... if Donald Duck is the only game that falls into the category "unreleased non-prototype" there's little reason to make an issue out of this Actually, the "Best Electronics" version of The Dukes of Hazzard falls into the same category. I do not know, however, if the Dukes used a standard ROM or an epoxy blob. In these cases, "unreleased non-prototype" and "prototype" basically mean the same thing to most collectors IMHO. (In other words, I agree with Marco) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jahfish Posted January 23, 2002 Share Posted January 23, 2002 i'll agree too .... the difference is only interesting to know when buying any of these carts. i wouldn't want to spend 150$ on a dukes cart (seen it on ebay last week: buyitnow for 150) when you actually know that there's potentially at least 1000 of these boards flying around .... this is still a point making a serious difference (as long as you don't have the money to just buy everything you want without thinking of your finances). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jahfish Posted January 23, 2002 Share Posted January 23, 2002 ggggrrrrrrrrrr..rrick! you did that awfull thing to me? i thought we were friends Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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