FB3...

[Cousin Vinnie]

I'm not sure if this has been said, but a Flashback that had 10 2600, 10 5200, 10 7800 games and a few homebrews would be great. Using the 7800 hardware, could it pull it off?

 

Cousin Vinnie

[jaybird3rd]

I'm not sure if this has been said, but a Flashback that had 10 2600, 10 5200, 10 7800 games and a few homebrews would be great. Using the 7800 hardware, could it pull it off?

 

Cousin Vinnie

973409[/snapback]

I addressed a similar question in a previous post in this thread ...

 

#221

[jbanes]

Ok, I have a new dream.  I want it to be a superthin, handheld Atari 2600 with a slot for a memory card to download roms onto it (in some secure way so they can be sold online of course).  Also, it would feature TV output.  Is that asking too much !!

972983[/snapback]

I'll never understand why everyone is so fixated on flash cards. A much better solution for this sort of thing is SmartCard Memory Cards. They come in just the right sizes for 2600 work (4K to 512K), they're cheap to manufacture in bulk, development kits are easy to come by, and they have a much more pleasing form factor.

 

Flash cards are nice if you need to store 4-32MB of data, but otherwise they're extremely expensive. Not to mention how easy it is to lose the darn things. Plus you can't put any real artwork on something so small. (A SmartCard can have any type of high-color artwork you want to put on it. And it's printed right on the card, no stickers!)

 

The advantages of the SmartCard form factor are the primary reason why I chose it for my game console work.

Edited December 1, 2005 by jbanes

[n8littlefield]

Ok, I have a new dream.  I want it to be a superthin, handheld Atari 2600 with a slot for a memory card to download roms onto it (in some secure way so they can be sold online of course).  Also, it would feature TV output.  Is that asking too much !!

972983[/snapback]

I'll never understand why everyone is so fixated on flash cards. A much better solution for this sort of thing is SmartCard Memory Cards. They come in just the right sizes for 2600 work (4K to 512K), they're cheap to manufacture in bulk, development kits are easy to come by, and they have a much more pleasing form factor.

 

Flash cards are nice if you need to store 4-32MB of data, but otherwise they're extremely expensive. Not to mention how easy it is to lose the darn things. Plus you can't put any real artwork on something so small. (A SmartCard can have any type of high-color artwork you want to put on it. And it's printed right on the card, no stickers!)

 

The advantages of the SmartCard form factor are the primary reason why I chose it for my game console work.

974853[/snapback]

 

I was thinking Compact Flash cards, just because they're dirt cheap (and I have a few extras kicking around )

[jbanes]

I was thinking Compact Flash cards, just because they're dirt cheap (and I have a few extras kicking around   )

975039[/snapback]

Fair enough. I think I still have an MMC card floating around as well. Unfortunately, what makes a good storage device for consumer electronics doesn't necessarily make a good distribution media. (As evidenced by the failed N-Gage and the cool-but-going-nowhere Gizmondo.)

[Pipercub]

You know, jbanes has a really good idea there. ISO 7816 (smart card) is a perfect format for distributing Atari games on a "cart" slot equiped unit. The 7816 ROM cards are so cheap that they are used in many kiosk units because you can spit them out by the stack for next to nothing. You can also print them with very slick looking artwork. The sockets and interfact ASICs are also incredibly dirt cheap and have been used in all sorts of consumer products. Some of the learning laptops that sell you "additional programs" on smart cards actually have the full software load and the smart card just contains a single character in ROM that enables the menus. If the FB3 had a 7816 slot then you could have a TON of multicarts with slick graphics and sell them with very little production and distribution overhead. They could be mail ordered and shipping and packing would be nothing more than a pre-stuffed envelope that they address.

[Atariboy2600]

August 26th...    Work begins :-)

 

 

Yes.... there WILL be a cartridge slot... sorta

 

 

 

 

Curt

913548[/snapback]

 

YES DEAR GOD YES!!!

[sidcrowe]

2600-like

 

As in, not the genuine article.

 

Well, what I meant was, the next FB will not be about the 2600, but will be in the same family.

 

I'm still up for the FB3, and I can't control how the project will proceed, but if I was running things, the next one would be a FB2 on steroids.

 

I want more of the 2600. The FB2 is awesome, but with the relatively small number of games, some of them duds, and big problems with the new ones, the project was not all it could have been. All business is a gamble, and I'd personally gamble on another 2600-based unit.

 

Lookit the guy who just released that CD of 2600 sounds. Sure, he coulda done a LOT more with the later systems/home computers, but the 2600 has got all the

 

LUVVVVVVVVV

[+LS650]

It seems pretty clear to me from Curt's comments that the FB3 will be some kind of an 8-bit/XL, possibly in a mini-5200 case, with a mix of 8-bit and converted 5200 games built-in. I'd guess that the controllers will be the same as the FB2 controllers. Most games only use the Start/Select/Option keys and joystick. I would imagine for those games that use keyboard (surely 8-bit Star Raiders would be included!) the games will be tweaked to use the function keys in combination with the joystick.

 

I'm kind of wondering about the "sort of" cartridge comment. Instead of a cartridge slot, maybe there will be some kind of USB/serial port so that games could be downloaded from a PC..?

[kevin242]

I'm kind of wondering about the "sort of" cartridge comment.  Instead of a cartridge slot, maybe there will be some kind of USB/serial port so that games could be downloaded from a PC..?

988775[/snapback]

 

 

I assume it will be some type of flash card thing, where after U buy the console

you can buy cards with a bunch of games for instance there might be a

space cart that has a bunch of space games for example. The FB 3 sound's

really exciting to me! First we get a new 8bit style system (with hopefully

some graphical improvements) this is something Ive qwanted forever! Then

they tell us it will be a real console not just an all in one type thing. I

cant wait to get one. Im suprised these things (fb 2, C64DTV) are so popular

with anyone besides us retrogamers, but Im sure glad they are!

 

 

I only hope it can somehow be mod'ed to use SIO2PC and a keyboard like a

real 8bit. that would be the ultimate.

Edited December 24, 2005 by kevin242

[raskar42]

Games:

 

Jakks stick has 10

Flashback has 20

Flashback2 has 40

 

Following this Flashback 3 should have 80 games

 

(wishful thinking but not impossible)

 

Now that liscenced games and homebrews are being added to the mix, the field is wide open.

 

 

anyone want to speculate on what games will or should be added?

 

Also it would be nice to get a mini 5200 design, but i think most their market dosen't know what a 5200 looks like. they can't make it too unfamiliar.

Edited December 24, 2005 by raskar42

[jaybird3rd]

I'm kind of wondering about the "sort of" cartridge comment.  Instead of a cartridge slot, maybe there will be some kind of USB/serial port so that games could be downloaded from a PC..?

988775[/snapback]

I think Curt indicated that it would be a slot that is pin-compatible with the original cartridge slot, but in a different form factor. I imagine it will be something smaller, cheaper, and easier to carry around with you than the original cartridges, but also something that would allow an (unauthorized) adapter so you could play original cartridges if you want to. I don't care too much if they use a 5200-looking case, which would probably be "retro" enough to suit the product even though it isn't as recognizable as the 2600, as long as it is a 400/800 clone internally and not a 5200.

 

As for games that should be included, one of my points in pushing the 8-bit computer idea for FB3 is the richness of its library of titles. Almost all of the major arcade games of the era had ports on the Atari 400/800 or 5200, many of them of high quality, and they could easily assemble a recognizable collection of core pack-in games by tapping into these, as well as some of Atari's 400/800 titles like Star Raiders, Star Raiders II, Caverns of Mars, and some APX games.

 

Other titles they could tap into to create a really nice mix include the most popular games from EA, Broderbund, and Lucasfilm (I'm thinking mostly of Archon/Adept, Ballblazer, and Lode Runner), as well as some games from Synapse (Necromancer and Pharaoh's Curse would work great in a handheld, IMHO) and some others like Spindizzy, the Boulder Dash games, Flip and Flop, Jumpman Junior, etc. A lot of these are third-party games that would have to be licensed, though, so they might make better "sold seperately" titles instead of pack-ins.

 

Of course, I wouldn't mind seeing some new games, either, as long as they aren't rushed like some of the FB2 games seemed to be.

Edited December 25, 2005 by jaybird3rd

[[d2f]Iggy*SJB]

I'm kind of wondering about the "sort of" cartridge comment.  Instead of a cartridge slot, maybe there will be some kind of USB/serial port so that games could be downloaded from a PC..?

988775[/snapback]

I think Curt indicated that it would be a slot that is pin-compatible with the original cartridge slot, but in a different form factor. I imagine it will be something smaller, cheaper, and easier to carry around with you than the original cartridges, but also something that would allow an (unauthorized) adapter so you could play original cartridges if you want to. I don't care too much if they use a 5200-looking case, which would probably be "retro" enough to suit the product even though it isn't as recognizable as the 2600, as long as it is a 400/800 clone internally and not a 5200.

 

As for games that should be included, one of my points in pushing the 8-bit computer idea for FB3 is the richness of its library of titles. Almost all of the major arcade games of the era had ports on the Atari 400/800 or 5200, many of them of high quality, and they could easily assemble a recognizable collection of core pack-in games by tapping into these, as well as some of Atari's 400/800 titles like Star Raiders, Star Raiders II, Caverns of Mars, and some APX games.

 

Other titles they could tap into to create a really nice mix include the most popular games from EA, Broderbund, and Lucasfilm (I'm thinking mostly of Archon/Adept, Ballblazer, and Lode Runner), as well as some games from Synapse (Necromancer and Pharaoh's Curse would work great in a handheld, IMHO) and some others like Spindizzy, the Boulder Dash games, Flip and Flop, Jumpman Junior, etc. A lot of these are third-party games that would have to be licensed, though, so they might make better "sold seperately" titles instead of pack-ins.

 

Of course, I wouldn't mind seeing some new games, either, as long as they aren't rushed like some of the FB2 games seemed to be.

988982[/snapback]

 

Jumpman JR was on the C=64 stick. And a perfect port, IIMSS. Boulder Dash would be a neat idea. As would a miriad of games. I'd love to see a 2600 compatable or even 5200 compatible cart port. I have lots of both carts. If we can at least plug some of our old games in, I'll be happy.

[n8littlefield]

I'm still holding out hope that the next Flashback won't flash back to a specific console, but instead will flashback to arcade games. It wouldn't take much of a chip to run the real arcade roms of the majority of the Atari games from the 80's.

 

Arcade perfect Tempest, Centipede, Crytal Castles, Missile Command, etc...would be super sweet. Add on a cartridge slot and I'll buy at least one. If it's a 5200 I probably wouldn't, I never played one so it wouldn't really give me any of those warm retro fuzzies.

[Zonie]

Games:

 

Jakks stick has 10

Flashback has 20

Flashback2 has 40

 

Following this Flashback 3 should have 80 games

 

(wishful thinking but not impossible)

 

988797[/snapback]

 

Kinda like the Atari version of Moore's law, eh?

 

If it's 8-bit, M.U.L.E. anyone? An 8-bit with a flash slot would be the bomb.

 

However, an Arcade FB would be cool too.

Edited January 1, 2006 by Zonie

[doctorclu]

Games:

 

Jakks stick has 10

Flashback has 20

Flashback2 has 40

 

Following this Flashback 3 should have 80 games

 

(wishful thinking but not impossible)

 

988797[/snapback]

 

Kinda like the Atari version of Moore's law, eh?

 

If it's 8-bit, M.U.L.E. anyone? An 8-bit with a flash slot would be the bomb.

 

However, an Arcade FB would be cool too.

992180[/snapback]

 

I love having new hardware for the 2600 with the flashback 2, and I would just love to have new 8-bit computer hardware.

 

When you think of it, it would be simple. Make a device that is simply...

 

-USB ports (2)

-Two joystick ports

-A/V ports

-Cartridge port? (Not really neccessary, but since it was mentioned...)

 

A miniture 5200 would be PERFECT. (no keyboard initially and would be logical progression from the 2600 and 7800)

 

Intially this miniture 8-bit (5200/8-bit) descendant would contain, once again, 40 games onboard. Contain one or two controllers.

 

The game system alone would make a good stand alone gift. However, then peripherals are added and it adds whole new worlds....

 

- Additional controllers... better joysticks, paddle controllers, etc.

 

- WIRELESS/remote controllers.

 

- USB keyboard adaptor... great for using the BASIC, assembler, or built in term programs which become available once the keyboard is noticed by the Flashback (like the XEGS with Basic.)

 

- SIO2PC adaptor : Hook the USB to your PC's USB and...

- access THOUSANDS of games that have been written in a 25 year library.

- "dial-up" internet BBS's (run by Atari or whoever) and talk to other

Flashback users.

 

- Flash Drive : (a basic USB flash card reader, but molded to look like a

small 1050 drive)

 

- Atari USB hub: (a basic USB hub, but molded to look like a 850 interface).

 

- Flash disk collections: Too lazy to hunt down the download sites for Atari

software? (for newbies) let Atari help. On a flash disk you could

receive the following collections....

 

- 50 Action games

- 50 Educational titles <--- BIG SELLER with parents

- 50 Adult titles

- 50 Programming tools

- 50 text adventures and RPG's.

 

And these go on and on.

Atari could make it where, like with iTunes, they could sell games to download for like 50 cents a piece.

 

Other peripherals could be to make the system more standalone for the more serious users and fans...

 

- USB to ethernet adaptor - to make the system able to connect to DSL and access the internet. With this addition you could make it where Flashback can become a simple way to receive E-mail, check stocks, and even chat. (Vintage Atari's can still do this, and this will not be a vintage Atari afteral.)

 

- Travel kit: Turn your flashback into a portable computer by attaching the optional battery pack (with a membrane keyboard like the Atari 400) attached to a hindged 6" flatscreen, which attached to the top of the unit (flatscreen idea taken from the PS1/PS2). Now you have the ability to continue to use your flashback on the road to play games, and even take a note or two.

With the optional wifi adaptor this portable Flashback can also hit wifi spots so you can reach your favorite BBS's, download mail, and so forth.

 

 

The very simple, but highly upgradeable Atari Flashback!

 

 

Well, just some fun thoughts. I will of course like the Flashback in whatever form it takes. But if any of these ideas can inspire...

 

 

Oh one more idea if you really want to be unique and new:

 

I heard someone mention that "Atari should go into the portable market."

 

How about this:

 

Keeping the 5200 design in mind, make it where the bulk of the smarts is on a small handheld device that has a LCD screen and a. This device looks remarkably like Gameboy mini (size, screen, controller on the face), but this device, unlike anything currently, has it's own "docking station".

The dock would give the portable Atari device:

- A/V connections (for television)

- Joystick ports

- USB ports

(as we mentioned above)

 

The handheld device would have little more than the docking port, and a peripheral port for a keyboard on the go with limited memory storage. This way you can load your favorite Atari games (or play one of the 40 onboard), detach the portable device, and play on the go. Even take a note or two on the go.

While the gameboy can be played through a gamecube with adaptor, it does not, last I checked, have a readily available dock that does the above without buying a whole other game system. This would actually let Atari pioneer a minor idea in gaming.

Great thing about the dock itself (that looks like a 5200 with a slot in the front to plug in a hand held device) would be that it could be usable for quite a long time, while the handheld itself could change models.

(Idea of the dock taken from the Macintosh Duo Docks, though the plugging would be manual instead of the cool video tape effect of the Duo to save on extra mechanical parts that could break (and cost)).

 

A simple 8-bit device in today's world with today's tricks. Could be fun. But then, a lot of what I mentioned here are inspired by what a lot of 8-bit users are more or less doing now.

[raskar42]

wow.

 

The untimate factor though, is what Atari feels is marketable.

 

An Arcade Flashback would be cool, but how would that work with a "sort of" cart slot?

 

The 5200 is a solid piece of machine, but will enough people remember it make it profitable, especially if it has to compete against the rumored Nintendo NES plug and play?

 

How about a Jaguar Flashback? We can all play Atari Karts!

 

When people see Atari, they think 2600 VCS. A little sad, but true.

[TrekkiELO]

especially if it has to compete against the rumored Nintendo NES plug and play?

995742[/snapback]

 

Where did ya read this at, can you post a link?

 

Thanks in advance,

 

Rick Vendl II

[kevin242]

wow.

 

The untimate factor though, is what Atari feels is marketable.

 

An Arcade Flashback would be cool, but how would that work with a "sort of" cart slot?

 

The 5200 is a solid piece of machine, but will enough people remember it make it profitable, especially if it has to compete against the rumored Nintendo NES plug and play?

 

How about a Jaguar Flashback? We can all play Atari Karts!

 

When people see Atari, they think 2600 VCS.  A little sad, but true.

995742[/snapback]

 

there won't be a Nintendo NES plug and play. Never happen. One of the Revolutions

features is total Nintendo back catalog compatibility (NES, SNES,N64, Cube) Nintendo

would never cut their own throats by releasing a cheaper product that might by seen

as an alternative to their new console.

 

Where did you hear this rumor?

[Tsukasa]

An A8 would be awesome for the FB3, if it actually happens, it might change my view of Infogrames. I have an FB2, and I am pleased with it. In my opinion, the FB2 redeems them for the FB1. But much more must be done before I trust them completely. I think the way to go is an A8 compatible with some built-in games, built-in BASIC, and an external hard drive that could be sold separately. Maybe an SD type of memory cartridge that looks like a 5 1/4 floppy disk, that would be really cool. The drive for it would be bundled, and look like a mini 810.

[kevin242]

An A8 would be awesome for the FB3, if it actually happens, it might change my view of Infogrames. I have an FB2, and I am pleased with it. In my opinion, the FB2 redeems them for the FB1. But much more must be done before I trust them completely. I think the way to go is an A8 compatible with some built-in games, built-in BASIC, and an external hard drive that could be sold separately. Maybe an SD type of memory cartridge that looks like a 5 1/4 floppy disk, that would be really cool. The drive for it would be bundled, and look like a mini 810.

995820[/snapback]

 

you dont trust Atari? that's funny. All those things you suggest would be cool but

I think we better be happy with little dedicated system that has some type of 8bit

in there we can take apart and hack to use a keyboard/drive etc...

[jaybird3rd]

you dont trust Atari? that's funny.  All those things you suggest would be cool but

I think we better be happy with little dedicated system that has some type of 8bit

in there we can take apart and hack to use a keyboard/drive etc...

995830[/snapback]

Exactly. That's what I'd love to see: something that is an easy-to-use cartridge-based console on the outside, but has at least an SIO header on the inside. A keyboard header on the inside for a PS/2 keyboard (something like the C64 DTV 15-in-1 has) would be nice, too, but I know that this would add more overhead to the design work. The C64 unit had it because that chipset was an offshoot of the C-One computer, which already had the keyboard interface built-in.

 

I wouldn't get my hopes up about any kind of flash drive or hard drive interface, as I've said before in this thread, because the price point won't allow it. It would require a significant addition to the original design, which already has a perfectly good cartridge slot that Curt has already said will be used (albeit in a different form factor).

[ZylonBane]

An Arcade Flashback would be cool

No, it would be lame. The FB2 is cool because it's running actual 2600 code. An "Arcade Flashback" would not be running actual arcade code, because very few arcade games use exactly the same hardware. Every game on it would have to be reprogrammed for some other chipset, which is exactly what the Jakks arcade sticks are.

[jaybird3rd]

No, it would be lame. The FB2 is cool because it's running actual 2600 code. An "Arcade Flashback" would not be running actual arcade code, because very few arcade games use exactly the same hardware. Every game on it would have to be reprogrammed for some other chipset, which is exactly what the Jakks arcade sticks are.

995859[/snapback]

Yeah, about the only coin-op platform that would give you enough of a variety of games to make such a unit attractive would be something like Atari's System 1 platform. But even that has too many coprocessors for a low-cost TV unit, and the different controls for each game would be a problem too.

[kevin242]

An Arcade Flashback would be cool

No, it would be lame. The FB2 is cool because it's running actual 2600 code. An "Arcade Flashback" would not be running actual arcade code, because very few arcade games use exactly the same hardware. Every game on it would have to be reprogrammed for some other chipset, which is exactly what the Jakks arcade sticks are.

995859[/snapback]

 

 

I suppose you could make some type of platform and program an emulator for it

so that it could at least run the original roms (making it more like the original then

say Jakk's ports) but it would prob cost alot to make something fast enough.