FB3...

[[d2f]Iggy*SJB]

Why, oh WHY hasn't the Atari Flashback console been done right yet?  And by right, I mean every single last effing Atari 2600 game that the powers-that-be still own the licenses for being included on it, since we all know we can now fit all known Atari 2600 games into a microscopic bit of real estate.  I also mean every game playing, looking, and sounding EXACTLY like the actual cartridge versions, which, I believe, even the FB2 doesn't quite do (correct me if I'm wrong).  I also mean new paddle controllers included; at least they did the right thing with the new CX40 joysticks.  A big step up.  I also mean a cartridge slot included for compatibility with third-party games that wouldn't be included in the unit proper.  But, noooooooooooooo, that seems out of the realm of possibility.

 

40 effing games, for chrissakes?  Out of hundreds and hundreds?  With no cartridge compatibility, no paddle controls, and not-quite-accurate gameplay?  Fuggeddaboudit.

1008919[/snapback]

 

42 games, two BRAND NEW HIGH QUALITY joysticks...plug and play easy, uses a REAL power supply, rather than $5 in batteries every other day.....

All that, PLUS the ability to add your own cartridge slot(Atari gave every effort to make it easy, even for a dimwit).....

for less than $30.

If you don't think that's a deal, you're an idiot.

 

Oh, and the gameplay is dead on. The actual games(the original code) are in there, not a rip-off "port".

[NightSprinter]

Save for some flickering issues I've encountered in Caverns of Mars and Return of Yars, I'm pretty damn happy even if I DIDN'T get the GCC prototype of Millipede on my system. I honestl wanna see what Curt can do with the FB3.

[supercat]

...and I've gotta admit, I would much rather that THRUST or Strat-e-Gems had been included than, say, Yar's Return or Space Duel.

1008971[/snapback]

 

If Strat-O-Gems had been included in the FB2 I'd have been a little bewildered where Atari got the code from, since only a small portion of it had been written by the time I bought my FB2.

[+LS650]

Well, you know what I meant. I can go back and edit my post to mention a different homebrew if you like...

[WaverBoy]

Iggy*SJB,Sun Jan 29, 2006 12:19 PM]42 games, two BRAND NEW HIGH QUALITY joysticks...plug and play easy, uses a REAL power supply, rather than $5 in batteries every other day.....

All that, PLUS the ability to add your own cartridge slot(Atari gave every effort to make it easy, even for a dimwit).....

for less than $30.

If you don't think that's a deal, you're an idiot.

 

Oh, and the gameplay is dead on. The actual games(the original code) are in there, not a rip-off "port".

1008981[/snapback]

 

First of all, watch it with the namecalling. I didn't call anyone names, I didn't ask to be called names myself, and if you insist on calling names, I'm sure I could come up with some choice ones for you.

 

Second of all, the gameplay is NOT 100% dead on, according to posts at these forums, regarding flicker, rolling, and last-second "improvements" that were unauthorized by the man behind the project...Missile Command, anyone?

 

Third of all, what's the reason for not including all the available Atari games in one unit? The only one I can think of is that Atari/Infogrames wants people to shell out for three systems + to get all the games. Third party games I can understand, of course, because they'd have to be re-licensed. Hopefully they can license a bunch the next time around, and include them along with ALL OTHER ATARI 2600 GAMES. If they did that, and charged even as much as $50-$60, I'd be buying one in a heartbeat. I mean, two flashback consoles have been released, and STILL no Space Invaders, one of the all-time classics...that's the game that made me beg my parents for one back in the day! And still no accurate original Atari 2600 Asteroids. And still no paddle controllers...the old ones are more glitch-prone than the old joysticks, and could really use a nice slight revamp.

 

Fourth of all, I've no talent when it comes to mechanical/electronic/cosmetic meddling; since only 42 games are included, the thing should have definitely included a cartridge slot that works, but a disclaimer included re: no twenty-year-old cartridges guaranteed to work on the system. If most or all of the games were included, we wouldn't need a cartridge slot.

 

I'm not saying it isn't better than nothing, and the second is a definite improvement over the extremely lamentable first. But it's still not quite what the fans want. Not this fan anyway. It's just not what it could have been. If trouble is going to be gone to to do this in the first place, gameplay should be 100% accurate, all possible games should be included, and both joysticks AND paddles need to be included as well. Next time around, get it right once and for all, and then no more Atari 2600 Flashback consoles need be released. Buy one, and you're done.

 

Note: I'm not taking Curt to task over any of this; I'm sure he has only the best of intentions, and has busted his butt to get what is out there out there. I'm just offering feedback here.

Edited January 29, 2006 by WaverBoy

[supercat]

...and STILL no Space Invaders, one of the all-time classics...that's the game that made me beg my parents for one back in the day!

1009131[/snapback]

 

The problem with Space Invaders is licensing. If Atari still had all their old licensing paperwork from 25 years ago, they might be able to release Space Invaders in the FB2 without any difficulty, but odds are very good that those files got thrown out long before Infogrames even existed.

 

That having been said, I would think that if Atari were to include the ROM for Space Invaders but call it something else, they might be able to get away with it. Their Space Invaders ROM doesn't use any of Taito's copyrighted artwork, and any patent Taito had on the play mechanic has long since expired. The trademark may still be valid, but that would be all.

[[d2f]Iggy*SJB]

Iggy*SJB,Sun Jan 29, 2006 12:19 PM]42 games, two BRAND NEW HIGH QUALITY joysticks...plug and play easy, uses a REAL power supply, rather than $5 in batteries every other day.....

All that, PLUS the ability to add your own cartridge slot(Atari gave every effort to make it easy, even for a dimwit).....

for less than $30.

If you don't think that's a deal, you're an idiot.

 

Oh, and the gameplay is dead on. The actual games(the original code) are in there, not a rip-off "port".

1008981[/snapback]

 

First of all, watch it with the namecalling. I didn't call anyone names, I didn't ask to be called names myself, and if you insist on calling names, I'm sure I could come up with some choice ones for you.

Well, I don't recall calling you anything, so I don't know how you could be offended...unless you are one of the few who actually DON'T think the FB2 is a deal...

 

Second of all, the gameplay is NOT 100% dead on, according to posts at these forums, regarding flicker, rolling, and last-second "improvements" that were unauthorized by the man behind the project...Missile Command, anyone?

Missile Command is perfect(as the 2600, that is), as are Pitfall, and probably several other games. I didn't play them all yet, but from what I've seen so far, the issues others seem to have don't affect me.

 

Third of all, what's the reason for not including all the available Atari games in one unit?  The only one I can think of is that Atari/Infogrames wants people to shell out for three systems + to get all the games.  Third party games I can understand, of course, because they'd have to be re-licensed.  Hopefully they can license a bunch the next time around, and include them along with ALL OTHER ATARI 2600 GAMES.  If they did that, and charged even as much as $50-$60, I'd be buying one in a heartbeat.  I mean, two flashback consoles have been released, and STILL no Space Invaders, one of the all-time classics...that's the game that made me beg my parents for one back in the day!  And still no accurate original Atari 2600 Asteroids.  And still no paddle controllers...the old ones are more glitch-prone than the old joysticks, and could really use a nice slight revamp.

Ok, so what you are basicly saying, is that you aren't happy with 42 games(plus the related hardware) for $30...you'd only be happy with 150 games for $60.

You know, if you're so hard up to have Space Invaders, you could always buy a 2600 and Space Invaders off of E-Bay....although I doubt you'll get the both for under $30....

 

Fourth of all, I've no talent when it comes to mechanical/electronic/cosmetic meddling; since only 42 games are included, the thing should have definitely included a cartridge slot that works, but a disclaimer included re: no twenty-year-old cartridges guaranteed to work on the system.  If most or all of the games were included, we wouldn't need a cartridge slot.

Well, I don't fully disagree with you on the cart slot, but I understand their logic as well. It would result(as several people pointed out) with people flooding their help lines about carts that don't work. "But I just bought it! It should work!", "Sir, you bought it used....and it's 20 years old...contact who you bought it from." I mean, come on, what do you expect? Ok, maybe you can't do the cart hack yourself...chances are, you can find someone to do it for you. Although, it's easy enough to do, unless you aren't even smart enough to know which end of the soldering iron to hold. Chances are, you're not that stupid.

 

I'm not saying it isn't better than nothing, and the second is a definite improvement over the extremely lamentable first.  But it's still not quite what the fans want.  Not this fan anyway.  It's just not what it could have been.  If trouble is going to be gone to to do this in the first place, gameplay should be 100% accurate, all possible games should be included, and both joysticks AND paddles need to be included as well.  Next time around, get it right once and for all, and then no more Atari 2600 Flashback consoles need be released.  Buy one, and you're done.

You also forget to factor in something else...Atari probably isn't making a whole hell of a lot of money off of this project. Plug and Plays are popular right now, but the market won't last forever. In 5 years, you probably won't even be able to give them away. It's a niche market, at best. I think they did good with this one, and you are correct about the paddles...they should have been included(of course, this would have bumped the price up a little, but so be it). Maybe the FB3 will have them....maybe they weren't cost effective, considering you are already getting 42 games, 2 NICE joysticks(which are of a higher quality than most of the ones made back in the day.....I've got about 10 different brands of them, and only the Tac-2 is similar in construction.)

 

Note: I'm not taking Curt to task over any of this; I'm sure he has only the best of intentions, and has busted his butt to get what is out there out there.  I'm just offering feedback here.

1009131[/snapback]

You just came off a bit strong about it...then again, I did too in my reply to you. I still stand by what I say...the FB2 is a nice piece of hardware, and well worth $30. Ok, it doesn't have ALL the games, but with a little patience, and some work, you can not only have all the games you want, but be able to play them on new hardware. From the pics Curt posted, the hack looks very easy(if a bit time consuming)....and does it REALLY matter if it looks good? I prefer functionality over aesthetics. Right now, my 2600 has a 9volt connector hanging out the back of it. It works again, so I really don't care.

[vdub_bobby]

The trademark may still be valid, but that would be all.

According to http://www.uspto.gov/, it is indeed still a valid trademark held by Taito.

[sidcrowe]

Hi guys. My mac croaked awhile back and I'm checking you out someplace else. Don't have enough access to read all posts, but I've been playing the snot out of my FB2 and Combat plays and glitches (LOVE EM! Tanks fly and jump) just like the 'ol 2600, but I'm noticing flaws in the new games I didn't notice before when I first reviewed it.

 

Curt is still awesome and so is the FB2, but personally I too would want a super FB2 on steroids with a shitload of games.

 

(jeez, there I go repeating myself)

 

[+LS650]

Say, Curt, what's up with that new avatar picture..?

[jaybird3rd]

Say, Curt, what's up with that new avatar picture..?

1012606[/snapback]

I may be overanalyzing things, but I think it's another FB3 clue.

 

Think about it: at the beginning of this thread he was using a "FB2 Engineering Team" image in his avatar. What is his avatar now? A guy building a souped-up Atari 800.

[Almost Rice]

Think about it: at the beginning of this thread he was using a "FB2 Engineering Team" image in his avatar.  What is his avatar now?  A guy building a souped-up Atari 800.

1012617[/snapback]

 

I have seen that image before. Its probably in my collection of Atari books or magazines.

[Paranoid]

Why, oh WHY hasn't the Atari Flashback console been done right yet?  And by right, I mean every single last effing Atari 2600 game that the powers-that-be still own the licenses for being included on it, since we all know we can now fit all known Atari 2600 games into a microscopic bit of real estate.  I also mean every game playing, looking, and sounding EXACTLY like the actual cartridge versions, which, I believe, even the FB2 doesn't quite do (correct me if I'm wrong).  I also mean new paddle controllers included; at least they did the right thing with the new CX40 joysticks.  A big step up.  I also mean a cartridge slot included for compatibility with third-party games that wouldn't be included in the unit proper.  But, noooooooooooooo, that seems out of the realm of possibility.

 

40 effing games, for chrissakes?  Out of hundreds and hundreds?  With no cartridge compatibility, no paddle controls, and not-quite-accurate gameplay?  Fuggeddaboudit.

1008919[/snapback]

 

Are you kidding me? Ask a hundred different people on here what the IDEAL flashback 3 would be, and you'll get a hundred different answers. What you propose sounds fantastic, really... but, while you're at it... lets not leave us Atari 5200 (which some of us believe is the ULTIMATE Atari console) fans hanging.

 

Obviously, though... the 5200 is going to be a REAL hard sell, although I believe it is the BEST choice and the next logical step. The Atari 5200 *is* the definitive console of that era and is acclaimed, even here, as the system that has the LEAST amount of turkeys in it's (admittedly limited) library. Of course, the 5200 introduces the challenge of those darned controllers. If they don't recreate the controllers (admittedly, perhaps with more modern, less failure prone internals) purists like myself are going to be disappointed. If they don't recreate them with something more mainstream... a lot of other people will complain.

 

But if you asked me... from a marketing and sales potential perspective (which is what the company is interested in)... the FB3 would most likely be a 7800 based unit... If they signed on for 3... which is what this thread seems to be indicating... an 8-bit computer or 7800 are the likely candidates... and I'd say the smart money is on the 7800...

 

Reading on in this thread I see a lot of interesting things.

 

I picked up Space Invaders in a trade... and my Atari 2600 at a Good Will for $4. I bought the 2600 to have PARTS for hacking my FB2, which I was NOT looking forward to. Is it "easy enough that an idiot can do it"? Well... In my 8th grade electronics class, my instructor had to force all the Mathalete Whiz Kids in the class to finish my project for me so that I would get put up into my normal grade at mid-term... I did *some* of the soldering myself, enough that I'm not completely uncomfortable with a soldering iron.

 

At the same time... the idea of cracking the FB2 open and taking a soldering iron to those tiny little dots is a daunting challenge to me. I was overjoyed when I found my parts donor actually worked.

 

Buying the cartridge port and the sleeve new would have been about triple what I paid for the Atari 2600 I have. I think I would rather have paid $15 more for the Flashback 2 and had it include a cartridge port.

 

Hmmm... I wonder if they have some GameKey thing in mind for the FB3, like with the Jakks models. As far as complaining about Atari feeling out the market and expanding it and dragging it out to increase profits... While WE may be into this hobby mostly for alturistic reasons... Atari certainly isn't. The *only* way they're going to make products is if they can make money on them... and they want to MAXIMIZE their profits. If they don't have a sound business model, they'll fail (again) and leave us all orphans searching for titles on eBay (again). Instead, they have to find a balance betweeen satisfying the consumers while also maximizing their profits. The FB1 was obviously a trail, proof of concept kind of thing. It showed that there was demand... but they also learned lessons about how discriminating their demographic was. The FB2 has been a far bigger success, it seems. So I wouldn't be surprised to find that the next generation will have a cartridge port using a NEW form of media... and that that media might contain 4 or 5 games for about half the price a single game used to cost. Unfortunately, *that* model would probably be a success. I'd much rather see a model where you get 20 to 40 games per media at about $20... But they're only going to GIVE us the minimum they have to in order to get us to shell out our money... and my guess is a 4 or 5 game combo for $20 would be the magic number. At any rate, I don't see them ever adopting the OLD cartridge format. That is a mess they probably want *nothing* to do with, for all the reasons stated here... not to mention, those old carts are big, bulky, and probably not cost efficent with the media solutions available today. You could store the entire Atari library from 2600 to 7800 and everything inbetween on a 1gb SD card, probably. If they bring back some sort of cartridge... it'll be new, proprietary, and based on some kind of flash ram memory like on the PS or XBox.

 

If they do an 800, I hope to God they retrofit it with a two button joystick and add a 5200 mode and 5200 only games (like Countermeasure)... at the very least.

Edited February 6, 2006 by Paranoid

[Paranoid]

FB3 is in partial operational existence in the lab here and a duplicate unit in the HK office.      Whether it becomes an 06' product or not is unclear, we're just the geeks making the toys.

Sounds great, Curt. I think my FB2 is great, and I can't wait to see what the FB3 is going to be like.

 

I'm guessing that the FB3 will be some kind of 8-bit/5200 platform ... but anyone thought about an FB 2.1? I'm not talking about Revision C; instead what I'm thinking of is a console similar to the 2.0, but with changes in the ROM line-up. I can see Atari releasing a 2.1, 2.2, etc. on a regular basis, each with a different line-up of old and new 2600 games.

1008623[/snapback]

 

Wow, speaking of a way for Atari to maximize profits on an already ironed out design... this is NOT a bad idea at all... someone who works for Atari should push this suggestion up to management, or get ls650 a job there...

 

Really, though... what a fantastic way to leverage the library of Atari classic games, while saving on hardware and R&D costs... I'd buy 3 of them at $30 a pop, if they all had different libraries of 40+ games.

 

The only thing you would want to do is avoid confusion in the packaging so that people understood there wasn't a single FB2, but multiple library versions of it.

 

And there are some titles (probably licensing issues again, like Superman) that are sorely missed that could absolutely carry new collections. Having one MARQUEE game (Superman... Ms. Pac Man... Donkey Kong) a dozen second tier games... and some filler (Realsports Tennis) would probably justify the licensing costs and the royalties Atari would pay

[sidcrowe]

I don't think there'd be "100" different answers for an ideal 2600. The only reason why we can't have those old games like Space Invaders and Pac Man is because the people who still hold them are dicks. They'd all demand a hefty percentage, even of deferred payment. But still, even for the ones Atari owns, I'd rather have Air Sea battle over shit like 3d tic tac toe.

 

Yeesh :/

[King_Salamon]

Think about it: at the beginning of this thread he was using a "FB2 Engineering Team" image in his avatar.  What is his avatar now?  A guy building a souped-up Atari 800.

1012617[/snapback]

 

I have seen that image before. Its probably in my collection of Atari books or magazines.

1013584[/snapback]

 

I'm with JayBird on this one... Curt's been really busy working on the next FlashBack toy. I can't see him wasting some spare time (which he says he doesn't have much of these days) on changing his avatar.

 

Did the original 800 have a cart port on the right hand side like the one in the avatar? I believe a cpu keyboard would be great and take me back to my C-64 days! This could be quite interesting.

 

Hopefully Curt will have more info for us in the next few months that he is allowed to let us in on. (or at least make suggestions that give us more info!)

 

Thanks Curt for your hard work and dedication.. I really enjoy my Flashback 2 and look forward to this next piece of work!

[+davidcalgary29]

Did the original 800 have a cart port on the right hand side like the one in the avatar?  I believe a cpu keyboard would be great and take me back to my C-64 days!  This could be quite interesting. 

 

 

No; it only had the two "under the hood" at the top of the computer.

 

Thanks Curt for your hard work and dedication.. I really enjoy my Flashback 2 and look forward to this next piece of work!

1019958[/snapback]

 

Hear, hear! I still enjoy the original FB, as a matter of fact!

[Clint Thompson]

Atari Flashback 3 Dream?

 

 

Yea well....

[atarilovesyou]

Think about it: at the beginning of this thread he was using a "FB2 Engineering Team" image in his avatar.  What is his avatar now?  A guy building a souped-up Atari 800.

1012617[/snapback]

 

I have seen that image before. Its probably in my collection of Atari books or magazines.

1013584[/snapback]

 

I'm with JayBird on this one... Curt's been really busy working on the next FlashBack toy. I can't see him wasting some spare time (which he says he doesn't have much of these days) on changing his avatar.

 

Did the original 800 have a cart port on the right hand side like the one in the avatar? I believe a cpu keyboard would be great and take me back to my C-64 days! This could be quite interesting.

 

Hopefully Curt will have more info for us in the next few months that he is allowed to let us in on. (or at least make suggestions that give us more info!)

 

Thanks Curt for your hard work and dedication.. I really enjoy my Flashback 2 and look forward to this next piece of work!

1019958[/snapback]

 

 

....the problem with selling after market multipacks is for the above stated reasons...the BEST games for the Atari were not MADE by Atari. So unless you had a great crossover with Activision, it would tank....they did it with Pitfall and River Raid, so there is hope.

 

Include an old cart slot and you have no problem, plus, instead of a new media they could use the old cart system, and still release multicarts in much the same way Coleco has it's recently released multicart with flash rom memory.

 

But if I sense the way the wind blows, FB3 isn't going to have much to do with the 2600 and for that I'm a bit disappointed...there just isn't a way to satisfy a ton of old schoolers while still turning a profit, I guess....

[supercat]

Atari Flashback 3 Dream?

1025436[/snapback]

 

A 2" floppy? Where'd ya get that? I have a few 2" floppies, but I think I junked the laptop that could read/write them (cracked screen).

[jbanes]

A 2" floppy?  Where'd ya get that?  I have a few 2" floppies, but I think I junked the laptop that could read/write them (cracked screen).

1025554[/snapback]

 

You had a Zenith Minisport? How cool!

 

IIRC, the disks could hold 720KB on a double-sided, double-density platter. Unfortunately, the format never managed to displace the 3.5" floppies which were starting to become popular. Thus the drive was never used in any other machine. Once the 1.44MB floppies came along, all hope for the 2" format was lost.

[Clint Thompson]

A 2" floppy?  Where'd ya get that?  I have a few 2" floppies, but I think I junked the laptop that could read/write them (cracked screen).

1025554[/snapback]

 

You had a Zenith Minisport? How cool!

 

IIRC, the disks could hold 720KB on a double-sided, double-density platter. Unfortunately, the format never managed to displace the 3.5" floppies which were starting to become popular. Thus the drive was never used in any other machine. Once the 1.44MB floppies came along, all hope for the 2" format was lost.

1025906[/snapback]

 

2" Disks... extremely small and really cool!

They were used for more than just the Zenith though. Not much info out there on them but they do exist. How big are CF cards? like an inch? Hmm....

 

Feel free to forward the 2" floppys my way

[Shannon]

So is this thing canned with all the financial problems Atari is having right now?

[kevin242]

So is this thing canned with all the financial problems Atari is having right now?

1029868[/snapback]

 

Pretty much. According to a recent article, not only was the Flashback2 not as big a

hit as they thought but there is no mention of FB3 coming out in 2006. Still might

appear someday somewhere, but I wouldnt bet on it.

Edited March 8, 2006 by kevin242

[Curt Vendel]

Not sure how they are stating the FB2 wasn't a big success, most retailers completely sold out quite early on. Go into any Target, Walmart or other retailer and the shelves are spilling over filled with various Plug n Play's, while you would be lucky to find a Flashback 2 on the shelf.

 

 

Curt

 

 

So is this thing canned with all the financial problems Atari is having right now?

1029868[/snapback]

 

Pretty much. According to a recent article, not only was the Flashback2 not as big a

hit as they thought but there is no mention of FB3 coming out in 2006. Still might

appear someday somewhere, but I wouldnt bet on it.

1030013[/snapback]