doctorclu Posted February 9, 2006 Share Posted February 9, 2006 Hi! I don't think you understand compact flash yet. It has nothing to do with the atari flash carts. It's a whole new format. You can neither run cart nor cd games from it. And they are right, it IS the Jag's future. Regards, Lars. 1015715[/snapback] Who me? I know compact flash quite well. Use it with at least three different platforms. Great stuff. What I don't understand is why it couldn't run rom and CD images? Actually, in this case I don't think it is so much a reason of can't but don't want to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GT Turbo Posted February 9, 2006 Author Share Posted February 9, 2006 How does the Jaguar see this, exactly? To the Jaguar, does this look like a cart, or like a Jag-CD? 1015679[/snapback] That's look like that : http://scpcd.free.fr/gallery/img/flash/carteV2_faceA_s2.jpg GT Turbo (Jagware) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCPCD Posted February 9, 2006 Share Posted February 9, 2006 (edited) OK. You put a compact flash into a Jaguar; then what? - Highest Speed - More Features - More Spaces - More possibilities Everything is possible with the JagCFv2 How does the Jaguar see this, exactly? To the Jaguar, does this look like a cart, or like a Jag-CD? The use is not like a cart but more like the JagCD even though it is also different What I don't understand is why it couldn't run rom and CD images? Actually, in this case I don't think it is so much a reason of can't but don't want to. I don't want to made this possible principaly for copyrights. I know that it should be awesome to have all jag cartridge games on a CF and also copy of CD on a CF but I don't want to be responsible for hacked Jag Games. and to see other photo of the CFv2 V1 vs V2 V1 vs V2 side b v2 JagCFv2 Regards, SCPCD Edited February 9, 2006 by SCPCD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+LS650 Posted February 9, 2006 Share Posted February 9, 2006 That's look like that :http://scpcd.free.fr/gallery/img/flash/carteV2_faceA_s2.jpg ...er, let's try again... There isn't much information included in any of the posts or the web-site as to exactly what this device is, other than a completely new storage format. If I understand correctly, it's not compatible with either Jaguar ROMs or CDs, so any software that uses it must be specially written to take advantage of it. Is that correct, or do I misunderstand? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCPCD Posted February 9, 2006 Share Posted February 9, 2006 If I understand correctly, it's not compatible with either Jaguar ROMs or CDs, so any software that uses it must be specially written to take advantage of it. Is that correct, or do I misunderstand? 1015804[/snapback] Yes you are right. The CF systeme is not compatible with either JagRoms or CDs. The software must be specially written to take advantage of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doctorclu Posted February 9, 2006 Share Posted February 9, 2006 If I understand correctly, it's not compatible with either Jaguar ROMs or CDs, so any software that uses it must be specially written to take advantage of it. Is that correct, or do I misunderstand? 1015804[/snapback] Yes you are right. The CF systeme is not compatible with either JagRoms or CDs. The software must be specially written to take advantage of it. 1015810[/snapback] (winces slightly) You know, first off, this is looking awesome. Secondly, about the rom images and CD images, yes, it could be used for piracy, it could be used legitamately. Practically the entire library of Jaguar games is available freely on the internet that were released back in 1993-1995. Other images float around. If there were piracy, it would not be wide scale. It is actually cheaper in many cases to buy the actual games than to make an E-prom copy of the game. And certainly cheaper than the CF cartridge will be. If it COULD run images, it would be useful in travelling, Jaguar demos at festivals, and whatever else is needed on the fly. Most of us hard core Jaguar fan already have over half the Jaguar cartridge library. The rest, at least in my case, I haven't come across for sale. I really don't think this issue of piracy is as big a deal as it is being made out to be. I believe true Jag fans will buy the games regardless because many Jag fan are into the ability to say "I own a complete collection, plus all the odd labels, and all in boxes with manuals" yadda yadda. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MegaManFan Posted February 9, 2006 Share Posted February 9, 2006 I'd like to add "100% correct" to the previous post. Owning a complete library of NTSC NES titles didn't stop me from playing them in emulation or vice versa. Having them all on Dreamcast and PC was fun but owning them is where the bragging rights are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goochman Posted February 10, 2006 Share Posted February 10, 2006 10 years after the Jag was discontinued. I think we are approaching a time where not many will care about running Cybermorph from a CF card New titles and other private releases Im sure folks will want to protect but as a whole I dont know who still cares about most of the Jag carts anymore. Just my $0.02 to put all the functionality in the cart thinking another 10 years down the road. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+LS650 Posted February 10, 2006 Share Posted February 10, 2006 Well, here's my 2¢ worth... There really isn't that much development going on now with carts and CDs. Maybe the occasional release, say a couple times per year, of a game or interesting demo. Maybe I'm wrong, I don't think that that many people are going to be interested in doing development for yet another new format.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GT Turbo Posted February 10, 2006 Author Share Posted February 10, 2006 Maybe I'm wrong, I don't think that that many people are going to be interested in doing development for yet another new format.... 1016282[/snapback] You're wrong !! All the Jagware Team (A lot of coders, graphics, musician, project leader, etc..) are working on news games, using some special feature from the Jag CF and you must know that a BJL uploader is included, that mean all Bjl programs will run without any modification. Some people has said, not enough place on cartridges, CD using is a big shit, and now you got 10 Megs of ram and a storage support from 16 megs to 2 giga, you will see some new prods, Starcat will use CF for Eerival !! GT Turbo (Jagware) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterG Posted February 10, 2006 Share Posted February 10, 2006 Well, here's my 2¢ worth... There really isn't that much development going on now with carts and CDs. Maybe the occasional release, say a couple times per year, of a game or interesting demo. Maybe I'm wrong, I don't think that that many people are going to be interested in doing development for yet another new format.... 1016282[/snapback] Well as I see it there is a problem with new software coming but I think in the longrun this can be a really good possibility. Sooner or later the Jag cd's will die. Cd'r are the cheapest media but since people have a hard time obtaining the cd'roms it limits the person who can buy the new stuff. Carts on the other hand are more expensive and there seem to be problems with the eeproms. So if you think down a few years, and with the CF cart aviable for everyone it could become a new standard. SUre you have to buy the cart first, but then the games could be cheaper and with the hope of new software coming and coders getting better at what they do they could take advatage of the speed and the amount of space. And even if we only get small games, having the opportunity to get them cheaper on a media that will not die on us it seems like a cool thing. We will have to see. I will buy one that's for sure. Peter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GT Turbo Posted February 10, 2006 Author Share Posted February 10, 2006 and coders getting better at what they do they could take advatage of the speed and the amount of space. All coders on Jagware are assembler coder, all the games will be fastest be sure, we've got some pixel killers, nice musicians, some 3d experts, some game designers be very sure that the Jag will come back better, harder and faster !!! GT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doctorclu Posted February 10, 2006 Share Posted February 10, 2006 Well, here's my 2¢ worth... There really isn't that much development going on now with carts and CDs. Maybe the occasional release, say a couple times per year, of a game or interesting demo. Maybe I'm wrong, I don't think that that many people are going to be interested in doing development for yet another new format.... 1016282[/snapback] While I cannot deny that another format is useful and will be used by some, 99.9% of the Jaguar formats are on cartridges or CD. Let me put this another way. I have games I *OWN* that are failing. Some (like my Rayman) only play occationally. But I paid good money for that catridge. I will be hanging onto that for years. But if I had a system where I could load a new rom image and play the game that I own but barely play, that would be awesome. And let's say there is a image I have of a game I don't own. Some Jag games are better than others. I like the ability to try out a game, and what better to truly get the feel than on a Jaguar? Final point on why to support the cartridge or CD formats would for the high score game sessions. It would be nice to introduce fellow Jag users to some of the not so popular games in high score contests just like on the 2600, 7800, and 8-bit forems. But I realized a problem. Not everyone owns every game. I know I don't. The 2600 users have the cuttlecart and Superchargers, 7800 users have cuttlecarts, 8-bit users have the SIO2PC, and ST users can just simply load an image onto a PC floppy and there you go. But the closest, simplest way we Jag users have to sample an image of a game is through a ramcart (hard to find), a 4 meg alpine board (even harder to find), or burn a disc image onto a CD-R and use a bypass (only works for some games). For the above legitimate reasons it would be awesome to have the CF adaptors tackle this void in the Jaguar systems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Sauron Posted February 10, 2006 Share Posted February 10, 2006 I'm all for the CF, especially if it means increased development for the Jag. I can't wait to see what you guys can do! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fadest Posted February 10, 2006 Share Posted February 10, 2006 If I remember well, CD format on Jag is really strange for a computing treatment, it's just like Audio format, so I think you can forget CD emulation on FlashCard. For cartridge, maybe this is possible, but the question is, how much will it cost in time effort ? I'm not involved in the project, but I know some of the guys behind, they want to make games, so they want to spend their spare time in writing games, even if it's include working (very hard) on a new format to store these games. But I understand than working on a hacking system would be a waste of time for them (as it would be for me as I have no interest in it). Maybe someone will find a way to use this flashcard in order to play commercial cartridge on it, but I'm pretty sure the Jagware team won't make any effort on it, this is not their goal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doctorclu Posted February 10, 2006 Share Posted February 10, 2006 If I remember well, CD format on Jag is really strange for a computing treatment, it's just like Audio format, so I think you can forget CD emulation on FlashCard. (snip) I'm pretty sure the Jagware team won't make any effort on it, this is not their goal. 1016329[/snapback] CD format... understandable. And the cart image format, also understandable. The Supercharger for the 2600 was not originally designed to load images. But, you take a rom image, convert to wav, and THEN are able to use it as such. Seeing things like this happen, I can see CD and cart formats being adapted later down the road. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GT Turbo Posted February 10, 2006 Author Share Posted February 10, 2006 Seeing things like this happen, I can see CD and cart formats being adapted later down the road. As Fadest as said, you can't do CD Emulation, because the access technic is too bad, we will lost a lot of time to do CD driver emulation. Fadest has allright, we don't want to loose time in this way. GT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GT Turbo Posted February 10, 2006 Author Share Posted February 10, 2006 While I cannot deny that another format is useful and will be used by some, 99.9% of the Jaguar formats are on cartridges or CD. But all Jagware productions (100%) will be available on Compact Flash ! GT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zerosquare Posted February 10, 2006 Share Posted February 10, 2006 Hi everybody. I'm Zerosquare, SCPCD's assistant on the JagCFv2 project (and Jagware member), and it's my first post on AA. As you may have noticed, GT Turbo is sometimes a little bit overenthusiastic in the PR department. Those who argue that we should support running existing games on a Compact Flash do have a point, and I don't doubt most people in the Jaguar community are honest and would not use the adaptator to pirate games. It's not really an hardware problem either : I think implementing cartridge emulation would not require excessive work (CD emulation is another matter, as said before). The real problem is that we want support from developers, and we probably won't get any if we release a product which can be potentially used as a piracy aid. Yes, someone said before that the market for the Jaguar was more-or-less dead, but just take a look at the prices for BattleSphere Gold on Ebay... or remember the recent licensing mess about Gorf... doctorlu, you said your games were failing. I'm a newcomer to the Jag, but cartridge technology is generally pretty robust, electronically speaking. Are your cartridges and your Jag's port clean ? (Hardware specialists are welcome to comment.) It's also true that the Compact Flash is yet another format. But the points to remember is that it's relatively cheap, high capacity, that homebrew productions can easily be distributed over the Internet (all you'll have to do is plug the CF card into your computer, copy the files on it, and put it back into the JagCF adaptator), it's fully rewrittable (no more EEPROM trouble), and that the JagCF (with all its bells and whistles) will allow developers to do much, much more than what can be done either with a plain Jaguar or the JagCD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starcat Posted February 10, 2006 Share Posted February 10, 2006 Hi! Maybe I'm wrong, I don't think that that many people are going to be interested in doing development for yet another new format.... 1016282[/snapback] You're wrong !! All the Jagware Team (A lot of coders, graphics, musician, project leader, etc..) are working on news games, using some special feature from the Jag CF and you must know that a BJL uploader is included, that mean all Bjl programs will run without any modification. Some people has said, not enough place on cartridges, CD using is a big shit, and now you got 10 Megs of ram and a storage support from 16 megs to 2 giga, you will see some new prods, Starcat will use CF for Eerival !! GT Turbo (Jagware) 1016293[/snapback] Exactly. I can only agree. Once CF is there and assuming it gets finished with all those cool features, you can be sure that it will be the format all my projects will be using. Especially Eerievale is impossible on CD. let alone cart Regards, Lars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starcat Posted February 12, 2006 Share Posted February 12, 2006 Hi! Do you have any rought idea yet, when the CF cart will be finished? Or available to developers? From what I read and what I saw it really seems to be very far in development. Also I hope all the latest changes don't drive the cost up too much. Another thing that just came to my mind. You said it has 8 MB SDRAM, how can you acces it? Is it accessable in cart space beginning at $800000, just with the difference that you can read and write to it? But if you do that, the Jaguar can only access 6 MB, is the rest addressed with bankswitching? Or is it accessed completely different? Regards, Lars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCPCD Posted February 12, 2006 Share Posted February 12, 2006 Hi ! Do you have any rought idea yet, when the CF cart will be finished? Or available to developers? I hope that the JagCF cartridge will be available for developers for september. (time to finish to check the prototype and launch the first production) From what I read and what I saw it really seems to be very far in development.Also I hope all the latest changes don't drive the cost up too much. All features added to the JagCF don't drive the cost up because of their low price For example : 8MB of SDRAM : 5$ and it is the componant added that it is the most expansive Another thing that just came to my mind. You said it has 8 MB SDRAM, how can you acces it? Is it accessable in cart space beginning at $800000, just with the difference that you can read and write to it? But if you do that, the Jaguar can only access 6 MB, is the rest addressed with bankswitching?Or is it accessed completely different? The memory map in the cartridge space will be : $800000 -> $8FFFFF : Boot ROM (1MB) $900000 -> $CFFFFF : SDRAM first bank and second bank choose by a bit in a register. (so 2*4MB) $D00000 -> $DFEFFF : registers & CF cache memory Regards, SCPCD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starcat Posted February 12, 2006 Share Posted February 12, 2006 Do you have any rought idea yet, when the CF cart will be finished? Or available to developers? I hope that the JagCF cartridge will be available for developers for september. (time to finish to check the prototype and launch the first production) That's great news. I can't wait to get my hands on this cool toy. From what I read and what I saw it really seems to be very far in development.Also I hope all the latest changes don't drive the cost up too much. All features added to the JagCF don't drive the cost up because of their low price For example : 8MB of SDRAM : 5$ and it is the componant added that it is the most expansive True. I tend to forget how cheap memory is these days. Especially if you are not limited to some weird outdated stuff, but can use normal parts. Another thing that just came to my mind. You said it has 8 MB SDRAM, how can you acces it? Is it accessable in cart space beginning at $800000, just with the difference that you can read and write to it? But if you do that, the Jaguar can only access 6 MB, is the rest addressed with bankswitching?Or is it accessed completely different? The memory map in the cartridge space will be : $800000 -> $8FFFFF : Boot ROM (1MB) $900000 -> $CFFFFF : SDRAM first bank and second bank choose by a bit in a register. (so 2*4MB) $D00000 -> $DFEFFF : registers & CF cache memory That's good. Regards, Lars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doctorclu Posted February 15, 2006 Share Posted February 15, 2006 doctorlu, you said your games were failing. I'm a newcomer to the Jag, but cartridge technology is generally pretty robust, electronically speaking. Are your cartridges and your Jag's port clean ? (Hardware specialists are welcome to comment.) 1016418[/snapback] Based on what I've read since 1999 (and most of that came from people who have been in the Jag scene since day 1) they are as clean as they are going to be. Face it, cartridges DO die. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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