To All Non-Programmer Idea Peddlers

[+batari]

13 hours ago, Kirk_Johnston said:

Well, whatever the platform people are working on, it's the end results that speak for themselves, and all I personally care about is seeing and playing great games and/or genuinely exciting tech demos coming out at the other end of all. So, as someone personally interested in SNES development, if I'm not seeing and playing a bunch of amazing SNES tech demos and/or actual fully-complete high quality games on a regular basis, it all ultimately means nothing to me. And 99% of the programmers in all the forums I visit aren't doing that and simply don't have the talent to create something genuinely good all themselves, despite their egos telling them otherwise, so I think it's time to all start working together in proper development teams to make something of actual worth again, unless, like I said, each individual programmer's aim is just to be kinda aimless and program for the sake of programming or whatever. I give nowt for these coding geniuses sitting in their vacuums creating a bunch of turds though. Like I said "a crap finished game made by some genius programmer is no better than some same-old idea by some wanna-be game designer, artist, musician." Something just existing isn't of any inherent value in and of itself as far as I'm concerned, especially if it's crap. It's all a bunch of nothing to me. And I'm bored of jerking off people like that and seeing people giving them unwarranted praise for stuff that bores me and leaves me completely unimpressed and uninspired. Anyone can create crap, be it code, art, music, whatever--that's not a talent. It's not helping me or anyone like me who wants to see more awesome stuff on SNES. So, there's designers, artists, musicians and programmers out there, and I think they/we should be working together to make something that everyone outside of a tiny forum full of mostly programmers can actually give a crap about. Or else, like I said, the SNES development scene is going to go basically nowhere, which is just sad. That's just my hot take on things though. I'm sure others have their take too.

 

Note: None of that is to say there aren't any good tech demos or games coming out of these development scenes at all, but just that there's not a lot happening in the SNES development scene, I think for various reasons, and I'm just giving my two cents on that.

Again, basically zero of what you said has any relevance to the Atari 2600, which is what this thread was and is all about, really.

 

Maybe it means something in the SNES scene, so maybe take this discussion there?

[Kirk_Johnston]

3 hours ago, Mittens0407 said:

That's pretty rich considering you yourself are looking for someone else to program your SNES game because you don't know how to. Insulting the same community you're also begging for help from probably won't help you much.

Yeah, so the 1% are the ones I'm interested in. And for the rest, I don't care if you're offended on their behalf. The other 99% are off doing their own thing and probably don't like people peddling ideas anyway, so they shouldn't give one hoot what I have say as they look down from their pedestals, just like the original poster.

 

And, curious, what are you doing in the scene exactly: Code, design, art, music, something else?

Edited December 24, 2022 by Kirk_Johnston

[Kirk_Johnston]

15 minutes ago, batari said:

Again, basically zero of what you said has any relevance to the Atari 2600, which is what this thread was and is all about, really.

 

Maybe it means something in the SNES scene, so maybe take this discussion there?

It's not in a specific Atari 2600 thread, just a general Game Programming > Homebrew Discussion one, and the original post didn't specify that single console either. And I'm sure you read the same original post as me, so you should know that without me having to say it. But don't worry, I'm speaking up in the SNES specific forums and threads too when I think it makes sense to do so.

Edited December 24, 2022 by Kirk_Johnston

[DavidC]

On 12/22/2022 at 6:44 PM, Kirk_Johnston said:

 

 

On 12/22/2022 at 6:44 PM, Kirk_Johnston said:

"blah blah blah"

 

PS. Before you get on that programmer high horse, I was a level designer on GTA IV and Jimmy at Rockstar North, i.e. a programmer, coded seven released iOS/Android/Amazon games using Game Maker (that have been downloaded more than 80,000 times overall), had a Steam project Greenlit, built and coded a VR fps game demo in Unity, and am currently concepting a SNES game in Game Maker 8.1 too (designing, creating the art for and programming in the GML language). And, just to add stuff that isn't about programming, I was also an artist/animator at Rare on the likes of Donkey Kong Country Color and Banjo Kazooie: Grunty's Revenge, was a lead artist and then production designer at an indie games company, a producer at a games based learning company, and have held a couple of other random positions in the industry over the years. I've also released my own VR novella on Amazon called Presence too (and a short story called Outside as well). I'm just not a SNES programmer. What a crime to be in here aking about SNES development without being a SNES programmer, and, God help us all, maybe even putting forward some ideas and stuff!

Well ain't you S.P.E.C.I.A.L 

[+batari]

49 minutes ago, Kirk_Johnston said:

It's not in a specific Atari 2600 thread, just a general Game Programming > Homebrew Discussion one, and the original post didn't specify that single console either. And I'm sure you read the same original post as me, so you should know that without me having to say it. But don't worry, I'm speaking up in the SNES specific forums and threads too when I think it makes sense to do so.

Although the place where this thread is located is not in the specific Atari 2600 section, this tread definitely was directed at the Atari 2600 homebrew scene in particular. If it is not very relevant to other consoles, that was not intentional.

[Albert]

1 minute ago, batari said:

Although the place where this thread is located is not in the specific Atari 2600 section, this tread definitely was directed at the Atari 2600 homebrew scene in particular. If it is not very relevant to other consoles, that was not intentional.

Especially since the thread was created in 2006, and nearly all homebrew development at the time was for the 2600.

 

 ..Al

[Mittens0407]

1 hour ago, Albert said:

Especially since the thread was created in 2006, and nearly all homebrew development at the time was for the 2600.

 

 ..Al

Are we gonna have to wait until the year 5002 until we can talk about 5200 homebrew?

[Mittens0407]

2 hours ago, Kirk_Johnston said:

The other 99% are off doing their own thing and probably don't like people peddling ideas anyway

My point is that is what you yourself do all the time. Literally your last topic posted: 

And the fact that you were banned from the SNES dev discord is evidence enough that I don't have to be offended on their behalf.

[Albert]

50 minutes ago, Mittens0407 said:

Are we gonna have to wait until the year 5002 until we can talk about 5200 homebrew?

That wasn't lost on me, either.

 

 ..Al

[+5-11under]

Many years ago I had an idea. I think it came from a brainstorming exercise I did. The idea: Put an LCD screen inside a pushbutton switch. The switch would be about 1" x 0.75". This would have been monochrome, because color wasn't invented yet... it was many years ago.

 

In my mind this was a million dollar idea. I still think it was a great idea. However, without putting the work in to develop it, it was just another "dime a dozen" idea.

 

I'm sure there were many others who had the same idea, but it was only the one(s) who actively fleshed out that idea, drafted it out, worked out how it would all function and fit and connect, and those who built prototypes and worked out production, who deserve most of the credit.

 

I think my idea was, at the same time, both awesome and nearly worthless.

 

Basically, that first post is stating that it takes more than just an awesome idea to make a good game. Then, helpfully, it explains some of the next steps a person could do before pitching it to prospective programmers. The post may have originated from frustration, but it is written in a positive and encouraging way. I see nothing to argue with here.

[+SpiceWare]

17 hours ago, Kirk_Johnston said:

original post didn't specify that single console either.

🤔

 

Quote

That said, a good, well-thought out, well-presented idea is worth looking at, always.
 
So if you want a programmer to even consider your idea for 30 seconds, here's what you need to do:

 

1. ... It isn't easy to understand the Stella guide^* if you aren't a coder ...

 

2. ... Does your idea fill an underserved niche in the 2600's library?

 

It looks like you became so enraged at "idea peddlers" that you couldn't comprehend, or didn't bother to read, the rest of the post which was giving many suggestions for the idea person to do if they wanted a programmer to consider their idea.

 

^* Stella Programmer's Guide is the original Atari 2600 programming document and can be found in the Docs section at MiniDig. I've never heard of a guide named "Stella" for other consoles.

 

[Kirk_Johnston]

On 12/24/2022 at 4:26 PM, SpiceWare said:

🤔

 

 

It looks like you became so enraged at "idea peddlers" that you couldn't comprehend, or didn't bother to read, the rest of the post which was giving many suggestions for the idea person to do if they wanted a programmer to consider their idea.

 

^* Stella Programmer's Guide is the original Atari 2600 programming document and can be found in the Docs section at MiniDig. I've never heard of a guide named "Stella" for other consoles.

 

OK, I stand corrected on the "Does your idea fill an underserved niche in the 2600's library?"

 

I did indeed not read that full section completely to pick up the bit specifying the 2600. My bad. Apologies for that. And apologies to batari there too, because he was in fact correct on that point.

 

I still stand by the sentiment of my original post in terms of the attitude certain people have in places like this towards anyone that isn't a programmer.

 

That's my position, be it in regards to 2600 or any console and people discussing game development on them.

Edited December 25, 2022 by Kirk_Johnston

[+batari]

I randomly found a Reddit post today that sums up a lot of the feelings in this thread:

 

https://www.reddit.com/r/ChoosingBeggars/comments/10px16a/if_you_create_an_app_for_me_and_if_it_is_a/

 

[KrunchyTC]

I would never want a programmer to make a game for me for free, I personally would be willing to pay them on a monthly, or bi-weekly bases, if I can afford it that is  I don't think i could even pay enough for a game until its finished, since it would likely require multiple people to do the job, to get at least one of my favorite NES games (Blaster Master is high on my list) on the 7800!

Edited December 22, 2023 by KrunchyTC

[carlsson]

On 12/22/2023 at 7:50 AM, KrunchyTC said:

I personally would be willing to pay them on a monthly, or bi-weekly bases

Perhaps you can find a retro game developer to marry and then support financially while they put efforts into making the games you've put into the vows? 😉

[KrunchyTC]

7 hours ago, carlsson said:

Perhaps you can find a retro game developer to marry and then support financially while they put efforts into making the games you've put into the vows? 😉

THATS A GREAT IDEA!!! 😍