New Atari Company

[Nukey Shay]

Yeah, a considered that at first...but doing so would eliminate Warren's raspberry that he blew at the suits (something that really should be in the game for good). I'm actually looking at condensing existing routines to function in less space...but drifting toward an 8k image (and maybe devoting a good portion of the added space to another big 'ol secret).

And yeah...calling it Adventure 2 is out (since that project has been underway for some time now).

[Joel D. Park]

Your absolutely right about the easter egg, and that it should be in there for good. But then again, it's nearly 100 bytes in itself. I may just give a nice bio and history of the worlds first easter egg in the manual... And steal the extra space.

 

Also, is there an Adventure 2 being done for the 2600, or only for the 5200???

[Thomas Jentzsch]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Joel D. Park:

I know you won't want to change the original game probabably, but by shrinking the easter egg author's name and removing Black and White support I've freed up over 100 bytes of data on the 4K cart. That's enough room to add like 2 new castles or a different dragon image set or whatever you want.

---

If you need some more byte saving tips, you should also ask at the Stella list. There is plenty of room for optimizing in the code.

 

I give one example:

Before calls to PosSpriteX, X is loaded with the index of the positioned object. This index isn't changed inside the subroutine.

At two places continuos objects are positioned that way, so instead of loading a new X value (2 bytes) you can also increase X (1 byte). So this saves you a "whopping" of 2 bytes. (see my quote!)

[Nukey Shay]

There are also redundant bits of code...for instance checking to see if the object you bumped into is in your room (obviously it would be).

 

For you hopefuls out there...don't hold your breath for this version. It takes me a while just to meditate long enough to be able to look at the disassembly without being driven insane. The game I have hacked apart currently is not at an executable stage yet...and most of the elements are still missing. But I'm catching on slowly (which is probably the biggest hobby project I've attempted...and the only one aside from "cheating" in the past 20 years or so).

[Cybergoth]

Hi there!

 

Since I never understood all the fuss about adventure, back to the original topic

 

I think it's good to have another new company founded doing new Atari games and I bet Atari Arts will be a tough competition for other guys like Christopher Rydberg or Darren Reid

and the likes

 

Greetings,

Manuel

[mvigor]

To the original posters:

 

Haaa haaa. I appreciate the laugh you have given me today. My ISP has lost my mySQL database and my e-mail list's dist file, but I'm smiling thanks to you.

 

Thank you!

[Nukey Shay]

BTW I believe that Adventure 2 is 5200 only. The game I am working on will always be a hack, even though it will differ significantly from the original "under the hood".

[Atari Master]

Wait? Your willing to give us free games??? How about a name that means somthing? How aboy gamearts? You can make games for all types of old systems.

[Paul Slocum]

If your not doing it for profit, why not just post your ideas here and maybe a programmer will decide to work on one at some point? And you probably should let some programmers critique your ideas since they most likely will include some graphics requirements that the Atari is not capable of.

 

Problem is, most programmers already have great ideas out the butt, but very little time to complete them. I already have 4 candidate projects for when I finish Marble Craze.

 

-Paul

[zraider]

Despite the previous replies, I have to add, this is the silliest ideal I've ever heard of !!!!

I'm "The Chef" and I need new ideals. Anyone out there have any ? I really need a new 4 blade knife for cutting celery. Any ideals would be appreciated.

Let's get real here. This person must be from outer space, or else has been in a time warp. JMHO...

[Nukey Shay]

Smart Patrol--

That isn't always true. Some people will take time out of their hectic schedules to help other people better understand the limitations of what they want to attempt. By posting an idea first, you often get valuable advice (from people that made ACTUAL carts) as to what should be attempted, and how many asprin you are likely to consume.

[Idea Revolutions]

Many of you think this is a silly idea. However, most of you don't understand. We just gave ourselves a name(Atari Arts), and put all our ideas into a company. We pretty much just want people to make games of our ideas. Listen to my reasoning, we are no longer called Atari Arts, we are called Idea Revolution, and we just want people to make games of our ideas. Go ahead, change the ideas a little, as long as it works. So now, Idea Revolution is just an Idea company. E-mail us, and we'll give some ideas for games to make. It's that simple.

[cwilkson]

Okay...I gotta chime in here....

 

I have to say that I'm disappointed in you

all. True, the Atari Arts company idea is

funny, but it's an honest effort by someone

who is trying. To see them get blasted like

this is sad and it embarrasses me to see it.

 

For the people who offered advice, or reasons

why it might not work....most of it was good

advice. It is hard work. Your finished game

is almost always different than the original

idea. And with your profits in this *hobby*

you might be able to buy your self a hamburger

once in a while. Maybe.

 

The thing that makes working with the 2600

cool is the challenge. Making something

from next to nothing. But almost nobody

does it without help. These guys are asking

for help, which by itself is hard to do

sometimes. And they come to the right place

to get that help. And they get made fun of

and generally shot down. Sad.

 

To Atari-Arts (Idea Revolution?): it might

help if you post your ideas for others to

look at. And don't get yor hopes up. The

2600 really is quite limited. Working with

the people here who have coded games for the

2600, you will be able to adapt your ideas

to what the 2600 is capable of. And you

will be able to create a list of the capabilities

that the 2600 lacks for a certain idea. New

hardware isn't unheard of: bankswitching,

booster grip, supercharger, extra RAM,

modems, keyboards...the list goes on. But

you really do need to talk people who know

how to write games to throw out the bad, undoable

ideas.

 

Or learn the hardware yourself. You should do this.

Even if you never want to write a game,

knowing the capabilities and limitations

of the 2600 will help you modify your ideas

to fit the hardware, or to abandon the ones

that simply can't be done. And who knows?

You might decide once you know how the machine

works, that you *do* want to try authoring

a game!

 

Bleh. In summary...new 2600 ventures are

always welcome. To those offering advice and

opinions, most are right. But try not to scare

people away, by seeming short or mean. To those

with new ideas...grow some thick skin, real

quick! I'm sure it's not meant to be harsh,

as with most forums, people can sometimes

sound that way. Sarcasm, etc, don't come

across well in text.

 

Sorry for the long rant. If there are any

replies that you want me to read, please cc

my email...I can't keep up with the volume here. Thanks!

 

-Chris

(who has HSYNC working in his new TIA!!!)

[cwilkson]

PS. I still "The Legend of Zenda" could be ported to the 2600.

 

HRMPH!!!

 

- Old, crotchety Chris

[KAZ]

Without people like "Atari Arts" new games would not BE made.

 

I think many on here would suspect that your interest about this project, although strong now, will decrease little by little, till you just drop it.

 

I suggest to you NOT to do this. Keep doing your meetings, and SERIOUSLY pursue this venture. If you don't, people will continue to be skeptical.

 

I think it is BETTER that you try to program for the Atari 2600, as it is the platform that is simple enough to allow amateurs to do this.

 

I would imagine you'd need an eprom burner in order to make new games. I'm sure it isn't all that difficult if you establish the right connections to a blank eprom...then the process is just carried out on a computer (using info gained from the internet about programming).

 

So that should be your first step...to pick up an eprom burner, does that sound reasonable to others?

[Nukey Shay]

Chris--

That's the thing...he's not asking for "help", per se. He's got "ideas", but so far has not made any indication that he is willing to make some sacrifices in order to make these into reality (like at least trying). Any programmer he inlists would certianly be making sacrifices...and if said programmer is doing the bulk of the work (aside from naming themselves executive), what is the advantage over doing it by yourself (other than figuring out a name to stick on your game)? Shot down? Maybe, but let's be realistic about this. This is tame considering what the modern gaming community would say to him. If you read the posts starting from the top, you will see that we had tried to make this as understandable as possible without being rude right off the bat.

[Nukey Shay]

KAZ--

Even a burner would be jumping the gun if he's never actually made anything. Most people start with something simpler, like the 800 or 5200 consoles, where the processor isn't totally dependent on what you code...but has an operating system to do most of the dirty work for you. And there are plenty of languages and compilers available to do this, if machine language is too daunting to begin with.

For me, I started with Basic and began hacking existing games...slowly discovering what instructions do. Along the way, I picked up a few reference books to help me understand the things I couldn't figure out on my own. If I had to start on the 2600 console...I probably would have gave up right away.

[kyle]

There are lots of homebrews out there by people who know what they are doing no one will give yall a chance they are to bussy programing their own ideas. I would like to see a anther big time atari homebrew sales compney like hozer out there thoe. I love hozer but maybe we could see some cheaper prices? But we dont need a bunch of people talking about games they would like to see then asking someone to make em for them!

[cwilkson]

Nukey -

Yeah, I'm just really touchy on this particular subject. It happened to me numerous times over the years. Having new ideas laughed away as "undoable" or "unecessary". I've been actively involved with 2600 development since 1996, and it still happens occasionally! Grrr.

 

I do agree that "modern" communities would eat them alive. But there are plenty of wannabes in those forums. I'm just saying to be careful with new people. We need all the interest we can get in this area.

 

KAZ -

I agree. Without new people like this, the 2600 would be *DEAD*. Long ago. True I haven't heard from Cristopher Rydberg for months, and I never heard of the other guy. But what about people like Piero Cavina, Andrew Davies, Joe Grand, Thomas Jentsch, Manuel Polik and the others? They all started out with no knowledge of the system. They were all newbies, and now they have successful games to their credit. We need to be very supportive of new endeavors, rather than swatting them away. Give them a chance. If they don't make good, oh well. But what if they do? Then everyone benefits. Regarding game development, I agree that new people should learn to write code. But I would recommmend starting with an emulator (z26 being my favorite, but stellax is a close second). Jumping into burning EPROMs is for the future...it's a big investment, and is overkill, since emulators are so good these days. Once they have something running on an emulator, then they can start thinking about running it on a real 2600.

 

-"VSYNC sucks!" Chris

 

(who's being kicked to the curb by VSYNC in his new TIA chip)

[Nukey Shay]

That may be true, but usually it goes like...

"I've got this idea for something, and it goes like this..."

And usually...

"I've did a little Basic programming, and started to delve into assembler. Where can I find more information about it, and how does this work with the 2600? Are there demos?"

My point was start with something you can understand (Basic makes this kinda easy if you can do basic math...since it's in friendly english words). Maybe look at an assembly manual. When you get stumped along the way, there are plenty of people still around to help.

 

At least with this approach, the ideas imagined are at least tryable in a language/platform. Once something works correctly in one language, a compiler program or reference manual may be able to show you how to convert this into the machine's native tongue. When in Basic, you often use the very same memory addresses to change things like color and characters...and the only obstacle here is learning the base-16 numbering system (which again is often found in the reference material).

Once you have the correct address of the bytes you are attempting to change, and a small subroutine to do it...try it out. If it works, you did it. If it doesn't, post it up here so others can help you find where it failed.

 

Nah, that's too much work. I'm just gonna call myself "The Prez" and get someone to do it for me for nothing.

[Atari 7800.com]

I dont want to put down your efforts, because I think it's great to see people doing what they can to keep Atari alive. If you guys can contribute by creating a few choice titles, then more power to you. However thinking of ideas and not knowing the slightest thing about programing an Atari 2600 game doesn't sound like the most promissing plan.

 

Infogrames seems very anxious to sue. So please be cautious. Also it is very arrogant of you to call yourselvs "The ONLY Atari Company" Im sorry but I had to laugh at that. I know about ten others including myself who run some sort of Atari organization, not to mention Infogrames, and Ill be the first to tell you, you are fighting an uphill fight.

 

But good luck.

Justin

 

PS- Stella's Ghost - Im not quite sure how to build a Time Machine, but id be willing to let you borrow my DeLorean for the afternoon if you care to let me join you as we walk into Atari corporate headquarters in 1981 and smack the crap out of the guy who did pac-man.

[Paul Slocum]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Chris Wilkson:

PS. I still "The Legend of Zenda" could be ported to the 2600.

---

 

I agree. The graphics are simple and with your boards there's enough ROM space. And saves could be done using a code. The only problem might be memory. Maybe you should put together a SuperChip board.

 

-Paul

[Nukey Shay]

Although I never met him...

I hear that Frye

is a pretty cool guy.

And I think it's cool that

his name sounds like a snack.

Only fitting that he'd make

a game in which you eat...uh

cake. Damn!

[slapdash]

I normally don't like taking sides, and this is going to sound a bit like I am, but...

 

"Without people like this the 2600 would be dead"... That statement isn't correct when applied to Atari Arts. They are just thinking about things, and trying to get others to do the work. The 2600 would have died and still be dead if only people like this were around.

 

I don't mean that their ideas suck (don't know), or that they don't have worthy ambitions (who wouldn't want to see new games?) but that what they offer alone wouldn't keep the system alive.

 

It's guys like Ed Federmeyer, Thomas, Manual, Paul, John, Mark De Smet, Brian Prescott, etc etc, who keep the 2600 alive -- the guys that DO something.

 

I've got ideas too, but I haven't done a damn thing with them. *I* have done nothing to keep the 2600 alive, except buying homebrews whenever I can. So I'm not faulting Atari Arts for trying.

 

But, I have to say that as it stands, it's not enough. And if they get a programmer to help them, they can at best take 10% credit, because they're still not doing the hard work.

 

Despite what I've said, I certainly wish them luck -- like I said, the more games the better! As such, I do encourage long-timers here to be more constructive in their replies, but also not to hold back their opinions. In return I hope the Atari Arts guys will listen carefully to what we say here and adjust their course where it needs to change. With any luck, they can get something done and we can all discuss this without pissing each other off. I hope I've succeeded in that way with this post...

[Chris++]

For being such normally humorous, usually intelligent people, sometimes this bunch can be the most elitist, most snooty in the world.

 

To anyone who has tried and failed at any level of 2600 game creation: Don't discourage others just because you weren't good enough.

 

Has anyone here thought that maybe the original poster is a young kid who's just excited at the prospect of invention? Isn't it kinda cool that he picked the 2600? Can't any of you see your past selves making a similar post if the Internet (as it is now) existed in the '80s?

 

Approaching THIS gang was evidently the kid's only mistake so far.

 

CF