Exophase Posted September 7, 2007 Share Posted September 7, 2007 Ok, ok..my point is the size limits exsist where they dont with the Jaguar's OPL. Due to this constant bickering, I have made a proposal to a PS1 programmer, to sit with me side by side and do ahonest to God assesment of the both of these systems. I v'e not yet heard back from him but I hope he is willing...then I plan to do the same witha Saturn and a 32x coder. Thanks, it should be interesting. Sorry about coming down on you like this, I've realized I've jumped on some hardware assumptions too :/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorf Posted September 7, 2007 Share Posted September 7, 2007 Ok, ok..my point is the size limits exsist where they dont with the Jaguar's OPL. Due to this constant bickering, I have made a proposal to a PS1 programmer, to sit with me side by side and do ahonest to God assesment of the both of these systems. I v'e not yet heard back from him but I hope he is willing...then I plan to do the same witha Saturn and a 32x coder. Thanks, it should be interesting. Sorry about coming down on you like this, I've realized I've jumped on some hardware assumptions too :/ Lol! Believe me, Im used to it. Again, I can only go by information that exsist out there that I can find on the PSX. The sony is a really good first shot into the industy. It certainly was done oodles better than Atari did it, a long time player in the industry no less. The biggest down falls of the Jaguar was not lack of powerful hardware but the lack of reasonable tools. Also, not even trying to find a work around for the Jump and JR main ram faults....It took me a few week nights to get something running. Im a hack..I admit it! But how is it, I a hack, and I am can figure this out and no one in testing at atari could? Trust me, Im not at all tooting my horn here....what I found to correct the jump issue is result of a bit of patience and luck. Im just really baffled as to why no one at Atari or any of the other developers never bothered to try? When I finally figured out what it was I laughed rather loudly. Its such a simple work around and does wonders for the performance. An assembler capable of outputting such code would be priceless. Unfortunately it needs to be hand coded using the MADMAC assembler for the RISC's. I had to write a tool or two to make it less painful to accomplish. Bit so far so good. I know that over all the PSX has a power advantage. My point is the Jaguar has a lot MORE power than was ever utilized, wit exception to come really good ones like Battlesphere and the IS series. I have had the privilage to see a lot of source code from the Jag games. The machine was treated like an ST with a strong graphics processor and not like the machine it could have been. I hope to put my money where my mouth is when I finally find the time again. If Im wrong, I'l galdly concede. If not, I'll just be glad its true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SatNoob Posted September 7, 2007 Share Posted September 7, 2007 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sd32 Posted September 7, 2007 Author Share Posted September 7, 2007 Due to this constant bickering, I have made a proposal to a PS1 programmer, to sit with me side by side and do ahonest to God assesment of the both of these systems. I v'e not yet heard back from him but I hope he is willing...then I plan to do the same witha Saturn and a 32x coder. Gorf, you do that and a lot of us would be very thankful if you share it with us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorf Posted September 7, 2007 Share Posted September 7, 2007 (edited) Due to this constant bickering, I have made a proposal to a PS1 programmer, to sit with me side by side and do ahonest to God assesment of the both of these systems. I v'e not yet heard back from him but I hope he is willing...then I plan to do the same witha Saturn and a 32x coder. Gorf, you do that and a lot of us would be very thankful if you share it with us. That is the whole point. Edited September 7, 2007 by Gorf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevincal Posted September 7, 2007 Share Posted September 7, 2007 Hey Gorf, you should get one of those Yaroze Developer Playstations and see what you can cook up on the ole' PS... I'd guess there is no homebrew PS1 scene though as Sony wouldn't allow it...right? But if there was and a nice homebrew was made, it'd sure sell a lot better than a Jag homebrew. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sd32 Posted September 7, 2007 Author Share Posted September 7, 2007 What!!??, no way Kevincal, Gorf is ours. You PS1fans cant borrow him just like that . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorf Posted September 7, 2007 Share Posted September 7, 2007 Hey Gorf, you should get one of those Yaroze Developer Playstations and see what you can cook up on the ole' PS... I'd guess there is no homebrew PS1 scene though as Sony wouldn't allow it...right? But if there was and a nice homebrew was made, it'd sure sell a lot better than a Jag homebrew. I'll stick with Jag for now. Who knows, perhaps in the future some decade from now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorf Posted September 7, 2007 Share Posted September 7, 2007 What!!??, no way Kevincal, Gorf is ours. You PS1fans cant borrow him just like that . The title deed for myself is in God's vault of life...sorry guys...I dont think you want to argue with him either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superjudge3 Posted September 7, 2007 Share Posted September 7, 2007 That 32X demo has to be a fake, I know there's no game play or music, but come one. The Saturn was barely able to do that. But I don't know anything about programming...its just that from what I've seen...come on, that was probably a Saturn demo at best. Also, Gorf, you complain about not having enough time on your hands to program the Jaguar...well quit writing these 10 page arguments on the forum and then you should have plenty of time to write more awesome games!!! LOL, just kidding man! Thought that would be a funny joke. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artlover Posted September 7, 2007 Share Posted September 7, 2007 That 32X demo has to be a fake, I know there's no game play or music, but come one. The Saturn was barely able to do that. For the most part, wasn't the 32x, for all practical purposes, just a cartridge based Saturn to begin with. But I don't know anything about programming...its just that from what I've seen...come on, that was probably a Saturn demo at best. Demo's, always, on every platform, outshine normal programing. Demos tend to push machines to (and past) their known limits, but by the very nature of that, are unable to do anything more then be, just a demo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superjudge3 Posted September 7, 2007 Share Posted September 7, 2007 Oh I see. So its kind of like being able to take a four-door family sedan and making go really fast, but only when it has no interior yet, no cosmetic appointments, just an engine? Bad analogy maybe but I understand what you're saying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SatNoob Posted September 7, 2007 Share Posted September 7, 2007 Forgive me for the dumb question, but what exactly is a dev system? Is it something say, hmm a complete noob like me could buy and make a game on? Or is it super hard to do. /end dumb question Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superjudge3 Posted September 7, 2007 Share Posted September 7, 2007 Yeah, it's just an abbreviation for "development system". So yes, if you have a development system you can make games in most cases (some consoles require more than just a dev kit like a compatible PC or computer and some dedicated hardware). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevincal Posted September 7, 2007 Share Posted September 7, 2007 What!!??, no way Kevincal, Gorf is ours. You PS1fans cant borrow him just like that . Haha... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TailChao Posted September 7, 2007 Share Posted September 7, 2007 (edited) No, not dual core but two seperate processors...9 actually in the saturn, but only the two sh2's are useful for applicationcode.The rest are pretty much there to deal with I/O and the CD access and other system choers but the actual system control is in the sh2's. It was not the first to have two general purpose processors...the Jaguar was before it and the 32x. Genny has two general purpose processors but the z-80 is only there for sound...I do not think it controls the rest of the system as the 68k does. Im not suer about this though and I am sure someone out ther in genny dev world may have found a way, but it was not intended to operate that way as far as I can tell. The TG16 has two GFX processors but only one main processor. There really is no such thing in the Jaguar. Any of the 3 processsors in the JAguar can fully control the system. There are not nine processors in the Saturn, and there are more things than the SH-2's which can be used for general processing including the 68K and DSP (As I stated on page 2). The Z80 in the Genesis can be used for other functions besides sound (and can even be used for display updates, just looking at its memory map system identifies this anyway). You are thinking of the SuperGrafix, not the PCE/TG-16. Edit: And just to clear it up for a few of the previous posters, the 32X is not a Saturn in a mushroom shaped box. It's just two SH-2's and a large amount of software rendering. This is why the 32X demo is impressive. Edited September 7, 2007 by TailChao Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorf Posted September 8, 2007 Share Posted September 8, 2007 the system.There are not nine processors in the Saturn, and there are more things than the SH-2's which can be used for general processing including the 68K and DSP (As I stated on page 2). Even if you could, why would you though? Its like wanting to use the 68k in the Jag, only worse. Most sites boast 8 processors but I stil only count 7. 2 sh2 1 sh1 1 68k 1 DSP 1 VDP1 1 VDP2 The Z80 in the Genesis can be used for other functions besides sound (and can even be used for display updates, just looking at its memory map system identifies this anyway). Yes. You are thinking of the SuperGrafix, not the PCE/TG-16. Could be. Edit: And just to clear it up for a few of the previous posters, the 32X is not a Saturn in a mushroom shaped box. It's just two SH-2's and a large amount of software rendering. This is why the 32X demo is impressive. Considering what it is yes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TailChao Posted September 8, 2007 Share Posted September 8, 2007 the system.There are not nine processors in the Saturn, and there are more things than the SH-2's which can be used for general processing including the 68K and DSP (As I stated on page 2). Even if you could, why would you though? Its like wanting to use the 68k in the Jag, only worse. Most sites boast 8 processors but I stil only count 7. 2 sh2 1 sh1 1 68k 1 DSP 1 VDP1 1 VDP2 Most sites tend to include the Hitachi system controller (also the backup memory controller) or the Yamaha FH1, which aren't exactly programmable anyway. Using the 68K on the Saturn isn't nearly as bad as on the Jaguar, it's on its own bus. The DSP is useful though, especially for geometric transformations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sd32 Posted September 8, 2007 Author Share Posted September 8, 2007 Most sites tend to include the Hitachi system controller (also the backup memory controller) or the Yamaha FH1, which aren't exactly programmable anyway. Using the 68K on the Saturn isn't nearly as bad as on the Jaguar, it's on its own bus. The DSP is useful though, especially for geometric transformations. I assume that you wont be using much the 68K for the Jaguar version of Zaku, right TailChao . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TailChao Posted September 8, 2007 Share Posted September 8, 2007 I assume that you wont be using much the 68K for the Jaguar version of Zaku, right TailChao . You mean the version that requires the unreleased Lynx->Jaguar converter? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sd32 Posted September 8, 2007 Author Share Posted September 8, 2007 I assume that you wont be using much the 68K for the Jaguar version of Zaku, right TailChao . You mean the version that requires the unreleased Lynx->Jaguar converter? HAHAHA!. I will be very happy to play it on my Lynx, your game is looking terrific. Congratulations!. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorf Posted September 8, 2007 Share Posted September 8, 2007 I assume that you wont be using much the 68K for the Jaguar version of Zaku, right TailChao . You mean the version that requires the unreleased Lynx->Jaguar converter? Oh, you code for the LYNX? Now there is something I'd like to learn to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorf Posted September 8, 2007 Share Posted September 8, 2007 (edited) Right now I'm more interested in instilling a bit of doubt in the minds of your readers on this forum There already is and has been, most of us just know better then bothering to try and argue the point with him. Ya sure. What doubts? Where has what I have said been proven otherwise? I post info anyone can get. The only doubt posted in anyones mind has so far been opinions stated without facts to back it up, for which I come back with reasonable and factual answers based on information. You dont bother arguing becaseu you dont have an argument...at least be truthful...oh and if you can dispute ANYTHING of waht I said with facts, I'll be right here waiting. Always easy to poke a shot in and not offer anything else to back up what you said. Edited September 8, 2007 by Gorf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sd32 Posted September 9, 2007 Author Share Posted September 9, 2007 Are the lightning effects used on Saturn games such as Powerslave, Duke Nukem and Quake (all by Lobotomy) making the Saturn work too hard?. Even if those games didnt have them, they would still be some of the most impresive engines on Saturn, soo, would they be running even better without this fxs. It would have been awesome if similar lightning could have been used on the Saturn Wipeouts, they really needed them, and the Wipeout game engines dont seem to be better than the aforementioned fps games. So my question is, could these lightning be added to any Saturn engine just by putting a lot of effort into it, or would the performance thake a big hit. Its very cool that the Jaguar used similar lightning to Powerslave, on Hover Strike CD, and did it a couple years earlier . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorf Posted September 9, 2007 Share Posted September 9, 2007 Are the lightning effects used on Saturn games such as Powerslave, Duke Nukem and Quake (all by Lobotomy) making the Saturn work too hard?. Even if those games didnt have them, they would still be some of the most impresive engines on Saturn, soo, would they be running even better without this fxs.It would have been awesome if similar lightning could have been used on the Saturn Wipeouts, they really needed them, and the Wipeout game engines dont seem to be better than the aforementioned fps games. So my question is, could these lightning be added to any Saturn engine just by putting a lot of effort into it, or would the performance thake a big hit. Its very cool that the Jaguar used similar lightning to Powerslave, on Hover Strike CD, and did it a couple years earlier . Yes...the machine has power...it not easy to tap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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