Is Hard Drivin' worth getting?

[Zoyous]

I'd like to see a hack of Hard/Race Drivin' that increases the camera's field of view (or allows manual adjustment). Playing it recently, it struck me that the relatively narrow FOV really diminishes the sense of speed, and particularly in the case of some of the sharp twists and turns in Race Drivin', makes it hard to see where you're going.

[Lostdragon]

12 hours ago, sirlynxalot said:

The programmer who did hard drivin on lynx was a very skilled guy and I get no impression that he slacked off on this game. I looked him up years ago and he actually still mentioned lynx hard drivin on his LinkedIn resume! Indicating that he single handedly developed a custom 3d engine for the lynx, a system that was not designed with 3d graphics in mind.  I am extremely impressed with hard drivin on lynx. I do not think it could have been done better on this hardware, and at the time, the rare games that did have 3d graphics on other consoles also ran at like 10 fps, so I don't think the lynx port is that awful in the framerate department by the standards of the day.

 

I believe the programmer also did the ninja gaiden 3 port, which involved him programming his own NES emulator in order to extract game graphics from the NES rom.  I remember this also being mentioned on his LinkedIn profile. 

 

Exactly. 

 

There's only so much you can do, when trying to bring a polygon 3D game onto sprite based hardware like the Lynx, no matter how talented you are. 

 

 

Hard Drivin only really worked in the Arcades, your never going to be able to mimic the custom controls on a handheld console for a start and putting it on a system with a low resolution, small screen is going to dilute the experience even further. 

 

The over sensitive controls issue should of been rectified before release and maybe further optimisation of the game  engine might of squeezed out a few more frames per second, but your still talking something of a fools errand when it comes to replicating what made the coin-op stand out at the time. 

 

It's not by far the worse home conversion of it.. 

 

That award goes to the C64 version, but the coder was simply facing an impossible task with this one..

 

 

[JagChris]

On 9/26/2022 at 7:21 AM, Zoyous said:

I'd like to see a hack of Hard/Race Drivin' that increases the camera's field of view (or allows manual adjustment). Playing it recently, it struck me that the relatively narrow FOV really diminishes the sense of speed, and particularly in the case of some of the sharp twists and turns in Race Drivin', makes it hard to see where you're going.

If you increase FOV you'd increase polygons making the Lynx work even harder.

 

I'm sure the programmer was a stand up guy and got a good chunk out of the Lynx but I doubt anyone in it's commercial life, especially for a contract job maxxed out the Lynx.

 

I'm not saying it could hit 20fps or anything but be interesting to see it squeak out a few more fps.

[phuzaxeman]

Hard Driving is difficult in the arcade and definitely not smooth.  The lynx version is decent if you like the arcade. You might like it.

 

There are people that hate Batman.  But for me, it's a top 15 game.  Most people that hate Batman, have never completed the game.  I finished the game several times in its release. 

[Songbird]

Impressive Batman completion rate! I think the level 2 rooftops is what makes that game so difficult to finish. Would be nice to patch the ROM so shotgun blasts only wound you, not drop you.

[PFG 9000]

I had only ever played the Genesis, Lynx, and SNES ports of Hard Drivin'.  All three were mostly terrible and I never saw the point of this game.

 

But after reading this thread (and a similar Facebook commentary), I remembered that I have the arcade version on the Midway Arcade Treasures vol3 compilation.  So I played that, and it's actually much more fun.  The smoother framerate and more responsive controls make all the difference.  It's still not amazing, but I can imagine it being incredibly impressive 33+ years ago.  That was the year we got Tetris on the Gameboy, Teenage Mutant NinjaHero Turtles in the arcades, and Shadow of the Beast on the Amiga.  So I guess I can understand the reason for all the inferior home ports. 

[Zoyous]

On 10/1/2022 at 8:59 AM, PFG 9000 said:

I had only ever played the Genesis, Lynx, and SNES ports of Hard Drivin'.  All three were mostly terrible and I never saw the point of this game.

 

But after reading this thread (and a similar Facebook commentary), I remembered that I have the arcade version on the Midway Arcade Treasures vol3 compilation.  So I played that, and it's actually much more fun.  The smoother framerate and more responsive controls make all the difference.  It's still not amazing, but I can imagine it being incredibly impressive 33+ years ago.  That was the year we got Tetris on the Gameboy, Teenage Mutant NinjaHero Turtles in the arcades, and Shadow of the Beast on the Amiga.  So I guess I can understand the reason for all the inferior home ports. 

The arcade version also has a steering wheel with strong force feedback, gearshift, pedals and adjustable seat. It's quite a cool experience.

 

I'd say the home ports are all actually pretty accurate, they just understandably have lower frame rates due to running on less powerful hardware. But coming from having played the original Flight Simulator on the Apple IIe just a few years prior, those slow frame rates were actually a big improvement. They pass the key test for a home conversion to me - they are accurate enough to practice and learn the courses well, so your play will be improved when you return to the arcade version.

Regarding the Lynx version specifically, to me it just looks like another impressive port. I really admire how there was a dedication to arcade accuracy on the Lynx.

Edited October 2, 2022 by Zoyous

[JagChris]

After chipping at this for the HSC  I've come to the conclusion this is playable. Especially for the early 90s on a hand held. It's a very impressive thing for its time.

[sirlynxalot]

Would overclocking the lynx give HD a little smoother performance?  I think I tried this in an emulator once and it was pretty good, unless I'm thinking of one of the other ports of the time.

[Cris1997XX]

45 minutes ago, sirlynxalot said:

Would overclocking the lynx give HD a little smoother performance?  I think I tried this in an emulator once and it was pretty good, unless I'm thinking of one of the other ports of the time.

Lynx emulators have options for overclocking!?

[Fadest]

You can have a look here, @rygar made a video on his 24mhz modified Lynx

(I normally setted up the video at the beginning of Hard Driving, so 1'45...

 

 

[str0m]

That looks as smooth as the arcade, impressive

[JagChris]

Has anyone ever ripped the track data from this?

[Linndrum]

Maybe not super relevant but somebody did rip the track data from Test Drive III, which I thought was awesome: https://simulationcorner.net/td3/td3.html

 

He did a bunch of other awesome stuff on there too for the technical nerds, reverse engineered Starflight, and the Comanche Voxel engine.....etc

 

https://simulationcorner.net/

 

And on the topic of the thread, I loved Hard Drivin' on the Lynx back in the day. The game isn't super fun or anything but I was fascinated with being able to explore a fully 3d landscape on a handheld at the time. Plus you can drive into a cow

Edited October 6, 2022 by Linndrum

[JagChris]

A cow? Haven't seen that yet.

Edited October 6, 2022 by JagChris

[Lostdragon]

On 10/2/2022 at 5:33 PM, Zoyous said:

The arcade version also has a steering wheel with strong force feedback, gearshift, pedals and adjustable seat. It's quite a cool experience.

 

I'd say the home ports are all actually pretty accurate, they just understandably have lower frame rates due to running on less powerful hardware. But coming from having played the original Flight Simulator on the Apple IIe just a few years prior, those slow frame rates were actually a big improvement. They pass the key test for a home conversion to me - they are accurate enough to practice and learn the courses well, so your play will be improved when you return to the arcade version.

 

Frank Gasking at GTW covered why the C64 version turned out so poorly, it wasn't just down to the slow CPU on the system either.. 

 

The original attempt at C64 Hard Drivin’, was being done by a completely different programmer (who was believed to have been someone at Binary Design).

 

 

They encountered all manner  of issues  trying to get the game finished, so they gave up and called it quits (Never to work for Domark again).

 

 

This left Domark with no game at a time the C64 advertising was out there, so they hurriedly found a new developer, who had just two weeks to get it complete, and from scratch!

 

The team was not given any code or assets to work with, the new team started from scratch.

 

 Apparently this version was running actually at a decent framerate (believed to be around twice the speed of the final game) with both tracks included.

 

The real headaches  came when the other cars on the track were introduced, Domark wanted the game out, ASAP, so no time was given to delay it and resolve the issues and a very sub-standard product was released. 

 

😢

 

 

You were never going to get fast polygon 3D,real physics, realistic sounds etc out of 8-bit hardware like the C64, but people deserved better than what was put out. 

Edited October 7, 2022 by Lostdragon

[PFG 9000]

On 10/5/2022 at 11:35 PM, JagChris said:

A cow? Haven't seen that yet.

It's next to the barn, along the left side of the stunt track, if I recall correctly.  As an immature 12 year old, I had ridiculous fun driving through it in the Genesis version because it makes a satisfying "Moo" sound each time you do so.

[JagChris]

On 10/5/2022 at 6:36 PM, Linndrum said:

Maybe not super relevant but somebody did rip the track data from Test Drive III, which I thought was awesome: https://simulationcorner.net/td3/td3.html

 

He did a bunch of other awesome stuff on there too for the technical nerds, reverse engineered Starflight, and the Comanche Voxel engine.....etc

 

https://simulationcorner.net/

 

And on the topic of the thread, I loved Hard Drivin' on the Lynx back in the day. The game isn't super fun or anything but I was fascinated with being able to explore a fully 3d landscape on a handheld at the time. Plus you can drive into a cow

I seen something about Stunt driving. When they overclocked it and smoothed it out it became too easy. Or maybe transferred to the sfx chip not sure. 

 

something that occurred to me regarding the Lynx version. It needs some chunky as it literally seems to be an essential part of its gameplay. 

 

But man just a few more fps.

[sirlynxalot]

Yeah some of these ports have little assists in them to help keep your car on the track. I really noticed this in the Genesis version of race drivin where there is a big corkscrew loop in the super stunt track, and since the fps drops to practically nothing on that particular obstacle it seems there is some recognizable steering assistance that comes into play to help you stay on the corkscrew.

 

Hmm that reminds me, it would have been cool to get race drivin on lynx. 

Edited October 11, 2022 by sirlynxalot

[Linndrum]

On 10/9/2022 at 3:38 PM, JagChris said:

I seen something about Stunt driving. When they overclocked it and smoothed it out it became too easy. Or maybe transferred to the sfx chip not sure. 

 

something that occurred to me regarding the Lynx version. It needs some chunky as it literally seems to be an essential part of its gameplay. 

 

But man just a few more fps.

Yeah I played the rom of the SE1 chip version of it on the SNES and it feels totally weird. They definitely designed it to play at the terrible framerate  ha

 

I played the C64 version with the Super CPU too and same story, it was designed to be played at 1 frame per second. Test Drive is a lot nicer with extra speed though! It actually plays better

Edited October 13, 2022 by Linndrum

[Chinese Cake]

To the one who said the Lynx wasn't made with 3D in mind, it don't agree. they definitely intended for some limited form of 3D on the system, one of it's launch games was already pushing the boundaries of where the line of "3D' would be and there were several of those types of games on the system, so polygons wasn't ever out of the question. But it's clear there wouldn't be a way to get 25fps with polygons on screen either. 

 

On 10/2/2022 at 2:46 PM, JagChris said:

After chipping at this for the HSC  I've come to the conclusion this is playable. Especially for the early 90s on a hand held. It's a very impressive thing for its time.

 

As infamous as they are, I find the ports of Hard Drivin to be very impressive regardless, it reminds me a lot of Pit-Fighter and it's subpar ports. the issue was not always the developer porting the arcade games (although sometimes that was the case) but often that the original arcade game was too powerful, to complex, and too ambitious to play in a recognizable way on the home gaming platforms of the time. Almost every platform just didn't have the specs to handle the games and the ports had to be heavily compromised.

 

Maybe an overclocked desktop professional Amiga with high memory (or an even more extremely expensive graphic business PC) could run a port that's serviceable to the arcade, but you port based on the specs the average consumer has reach too. 

 

With that said, I'm surprised Hard Drivin never got a port on the jaguar. That was strong enough to handle the arcade game and then some. 

 

Edited October 23, 2022 by Chinese Cake

[Lostdragon]

On 10/23/2022 at 9:14 PM, Chinese Cake said:

To the one who said the Lynx wasn't made with 3D in mind, it don't agree. they definitely intended for some limited form of 3D on the system, one of it's launch games was already pushing the boundaries of where the line of "3D' would be and there were several of those types of games on the system, so polygons wasn't ever out of the question. But it's clear there wouldn't be a way to get 25fps with polygons on screen either. 

 

 

As infamous as they are, I find the ports of Hard Drivin to be very impressive regardless, it reminds me a lot of Pit-Fighter and it's subpar ports. the issue was not always the developer porting the arcade games (although sometimes that was the case) but often that the original arcade game was too powerful, to complex, and too ambitious to play in a recognizable way on the home gaming platforms of the time. Almost every platform just didn't have the specs to handle the games and the ports had to be heavily compromised.

 

Maybe an overclocked desktop professional Amiga with high memory (or an even more extremely expensive graphic business PC) could run a port that's serviceable to the arcade, but you port based on the specs the average consumer has reach too. 

 

With that said, I'm surprised Hard Drivin never got a port on the jaguar. That was strong enough to handle the arcade game and then some. 

 

Strong enough to handle it yes, but from a commercial point of view, bringing a by now 4 year old arcade title, that had already been converted to the Lynx and ST, wouldn't of done the system any real favours. 

 

The press alone were already ripping into Atari for bringing aging titles like Raiden to the platform. 

 

 

Race Drivin' would of been the 'better' contender for conversion of the 2..

 

PlayStation version is pretty rare. 

 

 

 

[Chinese Cake]

4 hours ago, Lostdragon said:

Strong enough to handle it yes, but from a commercial point of view, bringing a by now 4 year old arcade title, that had already been converted to the Lynx and ST, wouldn't of done the system any real favours. 

 

The press alone were already ripping into Atari for bringing aging titles like Raiden to the platform. 

 

 

Race Drivin' would of been the 'better' contender for conversion of the 2..

 

PlayStation version is pretty rare. 

 

 

 

 

They probably went with HD because of name recognition, and for how bad the other ports were before. Might explain why they brought over Pit-Fighter too.