PAL Rarity Guide - R10s

[Dino]

.

Then the two Dino has (although isn't one of the scans on the database yours Dino?)

 

I dont know. I certainly did not provide any photos. I got one from dennis and one from you. if dennis provided Romhunter with photos then one is mine

 

I only know of 5 copies personally

[pangasinan]

.

Then the two Dino has (although isn't one of the scans on the database yours Dino?)

 

I dont know. I certainly did not provide any photos. I got one from dennis and one from you. if dennis provided Romhunter with photos then one is mine

 

I only know of 5 copies personally

Enough to remove its R10 status.

[Dino]

.

Then the two Dino has (although isn't one of the scans on the database yours Dino?)

 

I dont know. I certainly did not provide any photos. I got one from dennis and one from you. if dennis provided Romhunter with photos then one is mine

 

I only know of 5 copies personally

Enough to remove its R10 status.

yep. I had made that comment when nofrills found the one he just sold.

 

Blue label Magicard should be taken off too, but Rom is a little deaf in his old age

[pangasinan]

 

Blue label Magicard should be taken off too, but Rom is a little deaf in his old age

But if he did that there would be too many upset NTSC lads that would not be happy .

Edited April 6, 2011 by pangasinan

[nofrills100]

Rom,

I've always been curious where the line lies between carts that are designated an R10 / Holy Grail status, and carts that are simply added to the database - although there is a an equal chance that there will never be more than 3 found.

 

For example

River Raid from Concorde (R10 / Holy Grail)

V's

River Raid from Space Harrier / Choplifter

 

What difference do you distinguish between these two examples? Or what qualifies a cartridge for the Atarimania 'holy grail' status?

[Rom Hunter]

.

Then the two Dino has (although isn't one of the scans on the database yours Dino?)

 

I dont know. I certainly did not provide any photos. I got one from dennis and one from you. if dennis provided Romhunter with photos then one is mine

 

I only know of 5 copies personally

Enough to remove its R10 status.

yep. I had made that comment when nofrills found the one he just sold.

 

Blue label Magicard should be taken off too, but Rom is a little deaf in his old age

Was already removed last year.

 

Stay sharp, old man.

 

AFAIK Holy Grail status still counts for the blue labelled T-handle Time Warp (the first scan on the game page), unless someone can provide me a verified list with more than 3 carts & owners.

 

Edited April 6, 2011 by Rom Hunter

[Rom Hunter]

Rom,

I've always been curious where the line lies between carts that are designated an R10 / Holy Grail status, and carts that are simply added to the database - although there is a an equal chance that there will never be more than 3 found.

 

For example

River Raid from Concorde (R10 / Holy Grail)

V's

River Raid from Space Harrier / Choplifter

 

What difference do you distinguish between these two examples? Or what qualifies a cartridge for the Atarimania 'holy grail' status?

There's no difference.

 

I just haven't jumped into the Brazilian sector, that's all.

 

And the Concorde cart is definitely not Brazilian, hence the HG status.

 

[nofrills100]

Rom,

I've always been curious where the line lies between carts that are designated an R10 / Holy Grail status, and carts that are simply added to the database - although there is a an equal chance that there will never be more than 3 found.

 

For example

River Raid from Concorde (R10 / Holy Grail)

V's

River Raid from Space Harrier / Choplifter

 

What difference do you distinguish between these two examples? Or what qualifies a cartridge for the Atarimania 'holy grail' status?

There's no difference.

 

I just haven't jumped into the Brazilian sector, that's all.

 

And the Concorde cart is definitely not Brazilian, hence the HG status.

 

 

Space Harrier is Brazilian ??

[Dino]

I only know of 5 copies personally

Enough to remove its R10 status.

 

Depends on who you talk to. I don't think you would find too many people who would dispute that a game with only 5 copies known to exist is a true R10 Romhunter's 3 or less is just for administrative ease. I think he preers the title "holy grail" rather than R10

[Dino]

AFAIK Holy Grail status still counts for the blue labelled T-handle Time Warp (the first scan on the game page), unless someone can provide me a verified list with more than 3 carts & owners.

 

 

Stil a HG cart. Only 2 copies out there ATM.

[Schizophretard]

I only know of 5 copies personally

Enough to remove its R10 status.

 

Depends on who you talk to. I don't think you would find too many people who would dispute that a game with only 5 copies known to exist is a true R10 Romhunter's 3 or less is just for administrative ease. I think he preers the title "holy grail" rather than R10

 

Since he doesn't have rarity 1-9 his Holy Grail rarity isn't really R10s. It just means the rarest of the rare. Didn't he used to have 1-9?

[Dino]

I only know of 5 copies personally

Enough to remove its R10 status.

 

Depends on who you talk to. I don't think you would find too many people who would dispute that a game with only 5 copies known to exist is a true R10 Romhunter's 3 or less is just for administrative ease. I think he preers the title "holy grail" rather than R10

 

Since he doesn't have rarity 1-9 his Holy Grail rarity isn't really R10s. It just means the rarest of the rare. Didn't he used to have 1-9?

Rom's never done 1-9, that would take forever to do. R10 on Atarimania translates to Holy Grail (HG)

[Dino]

Was already removed last year.

 

Stay sharp, old man.

[Omegamatrix]

Was already removed last year.

 

Stay sharp, old man.

I think Rom Hunter is a "Holy Grail" ha ha.

 

 

@Rom, I'm wondering why all the Time Warps are crammed under 1 listing. I mean other areas of of the database are much more refined. Like Pang, I too find it confusing. Shouldn't those major label variations have seperate listings??

[Rom Hunter]

Was already removed last year.

 

Stay sharp, old man.

I think Rom Hunter is a "Holy Grail" ha ha.

 

 

@Rom, I'm wondering why all the Time Warps are crammed under 1 listing. I mean other areas of of the database are much more refined. Like Pang, I too find it confusing. Shouldn't those major label variations have seperate listings??

I'm certainly thinking of filtering this out some more in the near future (same goes for some Brazilian companies, btw), but for now I'll stick them together.

 

There's still an awful lot to do in the manual scans section (CBS almost completely scanned now and currently stepping over to Coleco).

 

[Rom Hunter]

Rom,

I've always been curious where the line lies between carts that are designated an R10 / Holy Grail status, and carts that are simply added to the database - although there is a an equal chance that there will never be more than 3 found.

 

For example

River Raid from Concorde (R10 / Holy Grail)

V's

River Raid from Space Harrier / Choplifter

 

What difference do you distinguish between these two examples? Or what qualifies a cartridge for the Atarimania 'holy grail' status?

There's no difference.

 

I just haven't jumped into the Brazilian sector, that's all.

 

And the Concorde cart is definitely not Brazilian, hence the HG status.

 

 

Space Harrier is Brazilian ??

Good point.

 

I'll check this out.

 

Edited April 7, 2011 by Rom Hunter

[Schizophretard]

I only know of 5 copies personally

Enough to remove its R10 status.

 

Depends on who you talk to. I don't think you would find too many people who would dispute that a game with only 5 copies known to exist is a true R10 Romhunter's 3 or less is just for administrative ease. I think he preers the title "holy grail" rather than R10

 

Since he doesn't have rarity 1-9 his Holy Grail rarity isn't really R10s. It just means the rarest of the rare. Didn't he used to have 1-9?

Rom's never done 1-9, that would take forever to do. R10 on Atarimania translates to Holy Grail (HG)

 

I'm not sure why I thought that but without 1-9 there can be no 10. The way I interpret the Holy Grail rating is that there are two rarities, Holy Grails and not Holy Grails. Would it be accurate to say that all Holy Grails are R10s but not all R10s are Holy Grails?

[nofrills100]

I think the 'Holy Grail' rating goes one step further than the R10 rating.

More like a R11 rating.

 

If you take Atari Age's R10 definition:

 

Unbelievably Rare

These games are almost impossible to find in the wild. Even collectors who have been at it for years may never run across one of these, and they often make up the showcase of an individual's collection. These rarely show up even on Ebay, and if they do there will most likely be a bidding war.

 

Then the 'Holy Grail' might be defined as:

 

'H-G' Tremendously Unbelievably Rare

These games are super impossible to find in the wild. Even collectors who have been at it for years may find they have grey hairs before they come across one of these, and they often are the showcase of an individual's collection. These rarely show up even on Ebay, and if they do there will most likely be a fist fight, leading to an all out war.

Edited April 7, 2011 by nofrills100

[nofrills100]

Rom,

I've always been curious where the line lies between carts that are designated an R10 / Holy Grail status, and carts that are simply added to the database - although there is a an equal chance that there will never be more than 3 found.

 

For example

River Raid from Concorde (R10 / Holy Grail)

V's

River Raid from Space Harrier / Choplifter

 

What difference do you distinguish between these two examples? Or what qualifies a cartridge for the Atarimania 'holy grail' status?

There's no difference.

 

I just haven't jumped into the Brazilian sector, that's all.

 

And the Concorde cart is definitely not Brazilian, hence the HG status.

 

 

Space Harrier is Brazilian ??

Good point.

 

I'll check this out.

 

 

Ok - but that was just one example.

The same could be said about many Taiwan cartridges, just as it is said about Funvision or Ultravision cartridges.

I understand though, that it is simply an open ended concept when it comes to PAL cartridges, especially PAL pirates. - And I am certainly not criticising you or atarimania, you know I am a big fan.

I was just wondering if there were more specific factors that determined 'Holy Grail' status, such as original game development, or perhaps that Funvision or Ultravision were more legit companies compared to other Taiwan pirateurs ... etc etc..

 

I also believe that all v-cases came from Funvision - being the 'mother' company.

[Schizophretard]

I think the 'Holy Grail' rating goes one step further than the R10 rating.

More like a R11 rating.

 

If you take Atari Age's R10 definition:

 

Unbelievably Rare

These games are almost impossible to find in the wild. Even collectors who have been at it for years may never run across one of these, and they often make up the showcase of an individual's collection. These rarely show up even on Ebay, and if they do there will most likely be a bidding war.

 

Then the 'Holy Grail' might be defined as:

 

'H-G' Tremendously Unbelievably Rare

These games are super impossible to find in the wild. Even collectors who have been at it for years may find they have grey hairs before they come across one of these, and they often are the showcase of an individual's collection. These rarely show up even on Ebay, and if they do there will most likely be a fist fight, leading to an all out war.

 

I think of it as R10.9.

[pangasinan]

Holy grail is just a generic term and too much emphasis is placed on it.

Besides the term holy grail means R10

Officially its R1- R10 and thats all.

K.I.S.S.

Edited April 7, 2011 by pangasinan

[Dino]

I also believe that all v-cases came from Funvision - being the 'mother' company.

 

Bitcorp/puzzy is the "mother" company

[Rom Hunter]

I think the 'Holy Grail' rating goes one step further than the R10 rating.

More like a R11 rating.

 

If you take Atari Age's R10 definition:

 

Unbelievably Rare

These games are almost impossible to find in the wild. Even collectors who have been at it for years may never run across one of these, and they often make up the showcase of an individual's collection. These rarely show up even on Ebay, and if they do there will most likely be a bidding war.

 

Then the 'Holy Grail' might be defined as:

 

'H-G' Tremendously Unbelievably Rare

These games are super impossible to find in the wild. Even collectors who have been at it for years may find they have grey hairs before they come across one of these, and they often are the showcase of an individual's collection. These rarely show up even on Ebay, and if they do there will most likely be a fist fight, leading to an all out war.

LOL

 

Something like that.

 

Seriously: Panga's statement is too easy; there IS a difference between AtariAge's R10 and Atarimania's Holy Grail rating.

 

Atarimania's Holy Grail means: Less then four are known to exist.

 

AtariAge's R10 means: Almost impossible to find in the wild.

 

The last one overlaps the first one, but has a much wider range (how wide exactly is (and IMO can) never (be) stated in numbers and therefore not workable for me).

 

Edited April 8, 2011 by Rom Hunter

[Rom Hunter]

Rom,

I've always been curious where the line lies between carts that are designated an R10 / Holy Grail status, and carts that are simply added to the database - although there is a an equal chance that there will never be more than 3 found.

 

For example

River Raid from Concorde (R10 / Holy Grail)

V's

River Raid from Space Harrier / Choplifter

 

What difference do you distinguish between these two examples? Or what qualifies a cartridge for the Atarimania 'holy grail' status?

There's no difference.

 

I just haven't jumped into the Brazilian sector, that's all.

 

And the Concorde cart is definitely not Brazilian, hence the HG status.

 

 

Space Harrier is Brazilian ??

Good point.

 

I'll check this out.

 

 

Ok - but that was just one example.

The same could be said about many Taiwan cartridges, just as it is said about Funvision or Ultravision cartridges.

I understand though, that it is simply an open ended concept when it comes to PAL cartridges, especially PAL pirates. - And I am certainly not criticising you or atarimania, you know I am a big fan.

I was just wondering if there were more specific factors that determined 'Holy Grail' status, such as original game development, or perhaps that Funvision or Ultravision were more legit companies compared to other Taiwan pirateurs ... etc etc..

 

I also believe that all v-cases came from Funvision - being the 'mother' company.

This is all very interesting to discuss and I've been puzzling over this many times.

 

It's possible for me to draw the line between original releases and pirate releases, but that won't do the pirates's rarity any justice.

 

I've started to cross the border here and there and I'm fully aware that this leaves me in an enormous ocean of rare Taiwanese / Brazilian / Japanese / Thai / Turkish / Aribic / you name it pirate releases that are all waiting to be determined for rarity.

 

I think it's fair to say that finding out if these have a Holy Grail status or not is a life(s)time absorbing job that I'm not willing to do.

 

And we're only talking about Holy Grail (less then four known to exist) status here.

 

You can easily imagine how humanly insane and utterly ridiculous a R1 to R10 determination job for pirates is (and IMO it already is for original releases, btw).

 

It's a dilemma and I'm afraid that the best thing to do is to stick to originals only, but if you have any other ideas, please let me know.

 

Advice on this is more than welcome.

 

Edited April 8, 2011 by Rom Hunter

[pangasinan]

I think the 'Holy Grail' rating goes one step further than the R10 rating.

More like a R11 rating.

 

If you take Atari Age's R10 definition:

 

Unbelievably Rare

These games are almost impossible to find in the wild. Even collectors who have been at it for years may never run across one of these, and they often make up the showcase of an individual's collection. These rarely show up even on Ebay, and if they do there will most likely be a bidding war.

 

Then the 'Holy Grail' might be defined as:

 

'H-G' Tremendously Unbelievably Rare

These games are super impossible to find in the wild. Even collectors who have been at it for years may find they have grey hairs before they come across one of these, and they often are the showcase of an individual's collection. These rarely show up even on Ebay, and if they do there will most likely be a fist fight, leading to an all out war.

LOL

 

Something like that.

 

Seriously: Panga's statement is too easy; there IS a difference between AtariAge's R10 and Atarimania's Holy Grail rating.

 

Atarimania's Holy Grail means: Less then four are known to exist.

 

AtariAge's R10 means: Almost impossible to find in the wild.

 

The last one overlaps the first one, but has a much wider range (how wide exactly is (and IMO can) never (be) stated in numbers and therefore not workable for me).

 

I never meant Atariages R10's ratings ,as far as im concerned that rating system is dead,as it has not been upgraded in years.

I meant Atarimanias R10's as that is regularly upgraded (but full of inconsistencies).

To me there is no difference between a R10 and a holy grail.

An Atarimania holy grail = less than 4,a Atarimania R10 = less than 4.

Same thing.

But the term holy grail is generic.

The website Atarimania reflects this ,when you check out a rare cart it is rated a R10 not rated a holy grail.