roland p Posted November 8, 2014 Share Posted November 8, 2014 (edited) Thanks guys. Is there a reason why the green squares have brown lines in them and the brown squares have green lines in them?During the brown lines (it is one color, I could use black too), the 'engine' calculates the colors for the second line. I could make a double line kernel, but the kernel itself would occupy between 3k and 4k. Does it only have the one Rotofoil?Yes. I'm now trying to get this right. The lower view must be rotated so the rotofoils face each other, this will be the starting position. In the original game, the rotofoils always face the ball and if you have the ball, the rotofoil faces the goal. I kinda likes the earlier stuff with the more vibrant and solid greens.Agreed. But the resource penalty isn't worth it. Edited November 8, 2014 by roland p 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+selgus Posted November 8, 2014 Share Posted November 8, 2014 Wow, I haven't been around here in a long time but its great to see you are still working on this! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djmips Posted November 9, 2014 Share Posted November 9, 2014 Yes. I'm now trying to get this right. The lower view must be rotated so the rotofoils face each other, this will be the starting position. In the original game, the rotofoils always face the ball and if you have the ball, the rotofoil faces the goal. Ok wow, that had always confused me in the original game, knowing they auto-rotate makes the game more sensible to me now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CPUWIZ Posted November 9, 2014 Share Posted November 9, 2014 Agreed. But the resource penalty isn't worth it. What exactly do you mean by that? Hardware cost? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keatah Posted November 9, 2014 Share Posted November 9, 2014 The interlaced green grid is good too. Is that doable? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Random Terrain Posted November 9, 2014 Share Posted November 9, 2014 What exactly do you mean by that? Hardware cost? I thought he was talking about cycles? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roland p Posted November 9, 2014 Share Posted November 9, 2014 What exactly do you mean by that? Hardware cost?The double line kernel needs more rom and more ram. But I have some proof of concept with a double line kernel, I'll check that. The double line kernel does look much better... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
accousticguitar Posted November 9, 2014 Share Posted November 9, 2014 Is your supervisor demanding you to keep it under 4k of rom and 128 bytes of ram? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keatah Posted November 9, 2014 Share Posted November 9, 2014 These are screenshots from earlier test versions. These are the ones I like best and believe to be the most aesthetically pleasing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Random Terrain Posted November 9, 2014 Share Posted November 9, 2014 These are screenshots from earlier test versions. These are the ones I like best and believe to be the most aesthetically pleasing. I like this one: It's smooth-looking and doesn't have a ton of thin lines going through it. The versions with the thin lines aren't as smooth-looking and aren't as 'pretty.' 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roland p Posted November 9, 2014 Share Posted November 9, 2014 (edited) I've now tried the double line kernel in the new 'lite' code. There are now 1395 bytes ROM left (the other one has 2248 bytes free at the moment), and 58 bytes RAM left (the other one has 94 bytes free). The border-collision detection is disabled at the moment so be careful But I think I'll stick to my original plan, use the simple one and get all the elements in. Later I can always 'upgrade' the kernel to a better one, depending on the resources (ram/rom/cycles) left. rom.bin Edited November 9, 2014 by roland p 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keatah Posted November 11, 2014 Share Posted November 11, 2014 I like this one: ballb.png It's smooth-looking and doesn't have a ton of thin lines going through it. The versions with the thin lines aren't as smooth-looking and aren't as 'pretty.' It also fills up the screen. Edge to edge top to bottom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keatah Posted November 11, 2014 Share Posted November 11, 2014 Number 3 looks best and has the most pleasing scrolling. IMHO 12 34 Posting from a terminal that is very limited. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roland p Posted November 11, 2014 Share Posted November 11, 2014 I agree that that the third one (which was 32K and uses 256bytes if RAM) looks the best. My new kernel isn't made to look better, but to make it easier to create the game. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Gemintronic Posted November 11, 2014 Share Posted November 11, 2014 Out-of-bounds land is awesome roland p! So many neat patterns. Makes me think one could make an RPG of some sort out of this "terrain" 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roland p Posted November 11, 2014 Share Posted November 11, 2014 Indeed, mmmh. I see 23 tiles, you could put the colors of the pattern in ram and do all kinds of cool things with it (change colors on the fly etc.) tempting 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keatah Posted November 11, 2014 Share Posted November 11, 2014 (edited) Sort of like a BallBlazer Deluxe. New worlds and playfields with different physics properties. I always wanted to see BallBlazer "converted" into a pinball battle game of a strange sort. Or even have a Z-axis up and down over different terrain. Radars, and missiles and all that. A whole new game could be derived from this! At any rate I'm happy to see BallBlazer as a WIP on hardware that is not really any more sophisticated than the AGC of the 1960's. It has been said that programming the VCS is about as difficult as the AGC was when all is said and done. Edited November 11, 2014 by Keatah 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djmips Posted November 11, 2014 Share Posted November 11, 2014 Sort of like a BallBlazer Deluxe. New worlds and playfields with different physics properties. I always wanted to see BallBlazer "converted" into a pinball battle game of a strange sort. Or even have a Z-axis up and down over different terrain. Radars, and missiles and all that. A whole new game could be derived from this! At any rate I'm happy to see BallBlazer as a WIP on hardware that is not really any more sophisticated than the AGC of the 1960's. It has been said that programming the VCS is about as difficult as the AGC was when all is said and done. AGC - Apollo Guidance Computer!? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keatah Posted November 11, 2014 Share Posted November 11, 2014 Yes. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apollo_Guidance_Computer It was common practice for the programmers to stuff variables and parts of the stack in-between smaller instructions to save a word here and there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roland p Posted November 11, 2014 Share Posted November 11, 2014 The interlaced green grid is good too. Is that doable? It is now interlaced. The motion looks smoother due to the increased resolution. Also, more tiles are drawn. Is this acceptable? (I tried tweaking the colors a bit to make the interlacing less annoying) rom_interlaced.bin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keatah Posted November 11, 2014 Share Posted November 11, 2014 I'm running strictly emulation. And while not exactly like real hardware, it's very very good and I've got everything tweaked nicely for my displays. So all my opinions are coming from that angle. Maybe some other folks with Harmony and real hardware on real CRT can speak up. The rom in msg #869 has good side to side scrolling, little or no visible tearing or "static" on the leading and trailing edges. I like that. I do NOT like the color choice. I'm gagging! And it isn't full screen.The rom in msg #886 has better colors, is easier to look at.This new rom_interlaced.bin in msg #895 is alright. It exhibits a bit of "static" or breakup when doing side-to-side scrolling or diagonal scrolling. The edges of the tiles/squares get a little jagged or irregular. Very subtle effect. One thing I completely dislike about the interlacing is that you can see the individual lines when your eye is tracking something or locked into phase with the 60hz refresh rate. That damned dot crawl I suppose. best scrolling.zipI still strongly prefer the scrolling in these previous releases in this zip file. The color is vibrant, there are less jagged lines when scrolling at higher speeds, the screen is full size. And with a little speed-up, it would have a good feel IMHO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keatah Posted November 11, 2014 Share Posted November 11, 2014 I was also thinking.. A dangerous thing sometimes.. Especially when it gets unconventional. What about making two versions? An enhanced version with less limitations of ram/rom/cycles. And an "authentic" 4K version like back in the day? And also please be aware the inner mechanisms of the VCS and its programming are definitely not my area of expertise - I see the console as a box of magic. And often times it's black magic! So I can only officially comment on playability, and how things look and feel. How the game elements come together and all that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roland p Posted November 11, 2014 Share Posted November 11, 2014 I was also thinking.. A dangerous thing sometimes.. Especially when it gets unconventional. What about making two versions? An enhanced version with less limitations of ram/rom/cycles. And an "authentic" 4K version like back in the day?Well, it would already be cool if I could finish one version . But that is the best route, you can always 'upgrade'. You can look at the checkerboard kernel as a replaceable layer. In the end, you can replace it (if there are enought resources available) with something better looking. I could even take it one step further and write some custom ARM code for the melody board to make a super-deluxe version. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keatah Posted November 11, 2014 Share Posted November 11, 2014 (edited) Something like that, and you could put all three (or how many ever) versions on 1 cart, and have a selectable menu on startup. I believe this multiple-versions thing would be a first for the VCS. And it's not a multi-cart because its just MAJOR variations on one game. In fact it isn't even done often on other platforms. I've only seen a few games like so on the Apple II. Mockingboard, or no mocking board. Double hi-res or no double hi-res, 64k version or 128k version (even more obscure). And then there are some selections in flight simulator, but here it's more like changing program parameters to adjust the accuracy and fidelity of the flight model. Another thing could be in-cart documentation too. Scrolling text and all that. New features unique to the VCS release. So many possibilities! Edited November 11, 2014 by Keatah Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roland p Posted November 11, 2014 Share Posted November 11, 2014 I'm actually thinking of including a 2d-mode, for easy debugging. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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