jahfish Posted September 7, 2008 Share Posted September 7, 2008 well, here is how i see it .... we have an ebay deal: i buy something from you .... my part now is to pay you for the item, your part is to ship the item to me ... once i've payed i've done my part of the deal, so i would expect to get a positive feedback for that .... once i would recieve the item i would leave positive feedback as well ... this is why i also don't like to get reminded of the feedback before i am ever in the position of leaving that feedback. but i should also mention that (again) ebay is the root of all evil, as they have installed this service for sellers leaving feedback automatically AFTER the buyer gives feedback ... it should rather be connected to paypal and send the feedback after the payment came in ... in your special case though, i would kick the guys ass for not contacting me to make his complaint via email .... just posting neg with no warning really sucks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetset Posted September 7, 2008 Share Posted September 7, 2008 Asking for praise = Rude.Smacking children = Not rude. Is that really your position? Uh, pretty sure spanking is, was anyways before it apparently became illegal, was a common method parents used to punish their kids for doing something wrong. yeah you shouldn't hit your kids. ever. spanking, slapping, a child is wrong wrong wrong. why would you roll your eyes at that? How many kids do you have? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianoid Posted September 7, 2008 Author Share Posted September 7, 2008 Because that's the way parents have been disciplining their kids since the beginning of time, and has worked just fine. This whole anti corporal punishment fluffy clouds garbage which has only really come about strongly in the last few generations is just new wave bullshit that doesn't teach kids anything except there is no cost to be paid for being a miserable rotten snot nosed little bastard. Clearly you have no children. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianoid Posted September 7, 2008 Author Share Posted September 7, 2008 well, here is how i see it .... we have an ebay deal: i buy something from you .... my part now is to pay you for the item, your part is to ship the item to me ... once i've payed i've done my part of the deal, so i would expect to get a positive feedback for that .... once i would recieve the item i would leave positive feedback as well ... Except that problems happen and I don't consider paying to be the end of the buyer's obligation. The buyer also needs to be reasonable in dealing with problems and returns. For example, you buy something from Newegg, it doesn't work. Do you go immediately to the better business bureau and report newegg? Do you post everywhere what evil scum Newegg are for sending a broken item? No, your part of the deal is to contact newegg, return the item, and get a refund. Do you hate newegg for that? I don't think so. And when Newegg sends an automated message asking you to rate them on some site or to rate the product, do you spamblock them, and profess your hate for them publicly? I didn't think so. Apply the same approach to eBay and you have a reasonable buyer who deserves a positive. OK, let me point something out. Rather than having a feedback rating for buyers, eBay should just have a rating of completed transactions, and NPBs. Since I can only leave positive, why even have sellers leave anything at all? Buying and selling feedback should not be mixed. Being a buyer is easy, you pay and move on. Being a seller is a much greater responsibility, and the feedback should be more meaningful and separate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mayhem Posted September 8, 2008 Share Posted September 8, 2008 Indeed... it's always been a bit screwed. I never leave feedback as a seller until I'm sure that the buyer is happy with what they bought. That doesn't necessary mean them leaving feedback first, just that they aren't gonna suddenly throw a fit unexpectedly about some minor trivial detail. Thankfully I must have a moron repellent device attached somewhere because I have hardly ever had any issues when selling; only when buying! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianoid Posted September 8, 2008 Author Share Posted September 8, 2008 Indeed... it's always been a bit screwed. I never leave feedback as a seller until I'm sure that the buyer is happy with what they bought. That doesn't necessary mean them leaving feedback first, just that they aren't gonna suddenly throw a fit unexpectedly about some minor trivial detail. Thankfully I must have a moron repellent device attached somewhere because I have hardly ever had any issues when selling; only when buying! I actually don't have a lot of problems as a buyer or a seller. I would say that in general I have pretty good luck. Only had a problem with maybe 1 in 200 sales. I think the system is broken but it works most of the time. I just like posting about the weird things that happen as a matter of interest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Weis Posted September 8, 2008 Share Posted September 8, 2008 Ian, you're a great seller! you always have great stuff, and we have done MANY deals over the years! and i'm sorry you have these problems! but it's looks very simple to me, you have 3 choices! A= continue doing it (and run the risk of getting another neg down the road) B=reword it (please leave me feedback if you are happy with the item, if you're not happy please contact me and i'll work out the problem!) or something to that matter... C=stop doing it! when i first started selling on ebay loong ago (8+ years) i was like you always trying to get feedback from EVERYONE!! (and i'm sure i pissed off a few by doing it) now, i can care less, even on CTCW. the only thing i care about is everyone is happy with my item and that i give them feedback ASAP once paid! and NO! i do not contact them to see if they are happy, i figure, if they are unhappy, they will let me know. Rick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Posted September 8, 2008 Share Posted September 8, 2008 A= continue doing it (and run the risk of getting another neg down the road) This individual sounds like the type of person who would simply be unhappy about something else and neg him anyway. No way to avoid morons like that. ..Al Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Weis Posted September 8, 2008 Share Posted September 8, 2008 A= continue doing it (and run the risk of getting another neg down the road) This individual sounds like the type of person who would simply be unhappy about something else and neg him anyway. No way to avoid morons like that. ..Al i don't agree with that! 100% maybe 25% Rick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Posted September 8, 2008 Share Posted September 8, 2008 A= continue doing it (and run the risk of getting another neg down the road) This individual sounds like the type of person who would simply be unhappy about something else and neg him anyway. No way to avoid morons like that. ..Al i don't agree with that! 100% maybe 25% Rick Not sure what you don't agree with. That there's no way to avoid morons like that? ..Al Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Weis Posted September 8, 2008 Share Posted September 8, 2008 A= continue doing it (and run the risk of getting another neg down the road) This individual sounds like the type of person who would simply be unhappy about something else and neg him anyway. No way to avoid morons like that. ..Al i don't agree with that! 100% maybe 25% Rick Not sure what you don't agree with. That there's no way to avoid morons like that? ..Al hehe that "those" people will neg him anyway.. the other 75% i don't think would. i'm 1000% sure he's going to run into Morons on ebay! Rick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy Yakapucci Posted September 8, 2008 Share Posted September 8, 2008 I think that the whole feedback for buyers is a little hosed. If you check my detailed feedback, granted it is only a rating of 5, but it looks like I am the best in the world. I bought a CD set and received feedback saying that I was the best on planet earth. Sounds like high praise to me. Someone else said that I was the best on eBay. From reading these, it makes me want to do business with me!! JY Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jahfish Posted September 8, 2008 Share Posted September 8, 2008 (edited) it's defenitely their whole system that is somehow screwed ... the biggest crap is defenitely their service (if you can even call their copy & paste emails a service). and the worst of all is if you have to deal with them because of any problems .... i had one item shipped to an adress in france (to my dad, because the seller didn't want to ship internationaly) and deleted the adress from ebay right after that auction. now everything i look at on ebay indicates shipping costs to france although i don't have the adress in my mailing adress list anymore .... it totally sucks, and ebay just replies with those bullshit copy and paste emails .... i really hate that! i hope the negative feedback gets deleted for you, ian! i know that you're a great trader and a great seller as well! Edited September 8, 2008 by jahfish Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianoid Posted September 9, 2008 Author Share Posted September 9, 2008 you have 3 choices!A= continue doing it (and run the risk of getting another neg down the road) B=reword it (please leave me feedback if you are happy with the item, if you're not happy please contact me and i'll work out the problem!) or something to that matter... C=stop doing it! Rick I chose B. Now I'll say "Please leave positive feedback when you receive the item or contact me with any issues before leaving feedback." eBay already said they won't remove it. I wonder if I should keep harassing them, if it would help. Some operations reward those who make the biggest stink. I can't believe I pay them $1000 a year for a complete absence of service. Talk about resting on their laurels. eBay hasn't made a single innovation since the day they opened shop. The company is too bulky to do anything new or interesting. All they have going for them is dominance at this point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hhwolfman Posted September 9, 2008 Share Posted September 9, 2008 Indeed... it's always been a bit screwed. I never leave feedback as a seller until I'm sure that the buyer is happy with what they bought. That doesn't necessary mean them leaving feedback first, just that they aren't gonna suddenly throw a fit unexpectedly about some minor trivial detail. Thankfully I must have a moron repellent device attached somewhere because I have hardly ever had any issues when selling; only when buying! I actually don't have a lot of problems as a buyer or a seller. I would say that in general I have pretty good luck. Only had a problem with maybe 1 in 200 sales. I think the system is broken but it works most of the time. I just like posting about the weird things that happen as a matter of interest. I like reading them. Any more? Just keep posting. HHW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brucebidder Posted September 9, 2008 Share Posted September 9, 2008 There is nothing wrong with asking for positive feedback from a transaction. In your opinion. http://www.atariage.com/forums/index.php?s...st&p=757840 The other people finished up testing as well as just walked away.. The sales guy chased after them! "Say thanks!" He said.. The Mom & Son looked at him confused.. "Say thanks!" He said again.. yelling louder again.. Mom & Son looked completely lost.. " Say thanks! This isn't an ARCADE! You should say thanks for the arcade!!" He goes mental.. and the people just walked away.. Seriously, have you ever sold anything on eBay in your life? Let's see your username so I can get some perspective. I digress, the simple fact is, though you may find it distasteful, it is not bad form to ask for positive feedback. It is distasteful to beg for it, or insist on it. Even then, distasteful is not grounds for negative feedback. Feedback ratings, in my humble opinion, reflect the receipt of an item and the service. A person shouldn't just leave negative feedback because they don't like you, your breath, your clothes, or your communication skills. I'm not sure why I'm wasting my virtual breath. Idealism I suppose. I must be an absolute complete and total ass, as I expect feedback if the buyer is happy, plus it lets me know they are content with their purchase. Not to mention I often get emails from buyers also requesting feedback. Plus it is common curtesy. I was raised by my parents to say please and thank you and if I didn't I was punished later. Either way to each his own I guess, but my its funny how some people think you are asking for the sacrifice of their first born simply by asking about feedback Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lemoncurry Posted September 9, 2008 Share Posted September 9, 2008 I still say: while it's fine to ask a buyer for positive feedback, however nicely you let them know they're not getting theirs until they leave it for you first, that's just asking for a neg or a neut now that they can only be left positives. Buying feedback is meaningless anyway, so you might as well leave it for them first. "Thanks for prompt payment." I agree they're not done with the transaction until they're happy, you can always leave a followup if they go wacko on you. "... sorry your item arrived on the day you ran out of meds!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brucebidder Posted September 9, 2008 Share Posted September 9, 2008 I still say: while it's fine to ask a buyer for positive feedback, however nicely you let them know they're not getting theirs until they leave it for you first, that's just asking for a neg or a neut now that they can only be left positives. Buying feedback is meaningless anyway, so you might as well leave it for them first. "Thanks for prompt payment." I agree they're not done with the transaction until they're happy, you can always leave a followup if they go wacko on you. "... sorry your item arrived on the day you ran out of meds!" Well I am no longer an ebay seller, but I sell on the chuckwagon and I always leave positive feedback when I ship the item. I do it all at once since its easier and I agree once payment is made you should as a seller leave positive feedback, also then it is the buyers responsibility to leave feedback once the item is recieved and they are happy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianoid Posted September 10, 2008 Author Share Posted September 10, 2008 I still say: while it's fine to ask a buyer for positive feedback, however nicely you let them know they're not getting theirs until they leave it for you first, that's just asking for a neg or a neut now that they can only be left positives. Buying feedback is meaningless anyway, so you might as well leave it for them first. "Thanks for prompt payment." I agree they're not done with the transaction until they're happy, you can always leave a followup if they go wacko on you. "... sorry your item arrived on the day you ran out of meds!" Look, with a feedback system this broken, breathing is asking for a "neg or a neut". I just don't see why it's a big deal to say I'll leave feedback after you. After all, if you (bidder) aren't bothering to leave me feedback, why would I bother? I'm probably alot busier anyway. Seriously, I provide the best possible service I can. I don't need to kiss every ass just to avoid negative. I think eBay overestimated the goodwill of buyers. People are obnoxious jerks unless there is some accountability. Now there is no accountability for buyers. They could send me turd scented cash in the mail, what recourse would I have? I am stuck standing for this type of abuse. eBay is so over! I need to talk to socalmike about some of my ideas. I really always mean to move some commerce over to the Chasethechuckwagon.com site, but there are reasons that would be off-topic that I haven't- and they are merely logistic at this point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Weis Posted September 10, 2008 Share Posted September 10, 2008 eBay is so over! I need to talk to socalmike about some of my ideas. I really always mean to move some commerce over to the Chasethechuckwagon.com site Rick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetset Posted September 10, 2008 Share Posted September 10, 2008 I still say: while it's fine to ask a buyer for positive feedback, however nicely you let them know they're not getting theirs until they leave it for you first, that's just asking for a neg or a neut now that they can only be left positives. Buying feedback is meaningless anyway, so you might as well leave it for them first. "Thanks for prompt payment." I agree they're not done with the transaction until they're happy, you can always leave a followup if they go wacko on you. "... sorry your item arrived on the day you ran out of meds!" Look, with a feedback system this broken, breathing is asking for a "neg or a neut". I just don't see why it's a big deal to say I'll leave feedback after you. After all, if you (bidder) aren't bothering to leave me feedback, why would I bother? I'm probably alot busier anyway. Seriously, I provide the best possible service I can. I don't need to kiss every ass just to avoid negative. I think eBay overestimated the goodwill of buyers. People are obnoxious jerks unless there is some accountability. Now there is no accountability for buyers. They could send me turd scented cash in the mail, what recourse would I have? I am stuck standing for this type of abuse. eBay is so over! I need to talk to socalmike about some of my ideas. I really always mean to move some commerce over to the Chasethechuckwagon.com site, but there are reasons that would be off-topic that I haven't- and they are merely logistic at this point. Sorry, you are a great seller, and didn't deserve the neg, but the feedback system *was* broken. Granted it's not 100% fixed but it's WAY better, especially from a buyers perspective. You say a buyer could send you scented turd cash with no recourse. Your recourse would be to lie and say you never received it. The fact is, even if it DIDN'T smell like turd you still had the upper hand because you could lie and never say you got the cash, and because you *had* the ability to use the feedback as a bargaining chip, the buyer wouldn't dare neg you because you'd neg him back. And the... After all, if you (bidder) aren't bothering to leave me feedback, why would I bother? I'm probably alot busier anyway. ...*IS* turd scented. That takes some balls to say that a customer has to "bother" with thanking you for taking their money and giving you profit. Sorry, but go into a store, buy their product, and let the manager come up and say "aren't you going to THANK me??? 'cause if you don't *I'M* not going to thank you". I think a lot of sellers need to get off their high horse and remember where they'd be without customers. Out of business. ...And blame Ebay all you want. The sellers who have been playing games withholding feedback like some electronic hostage are the reason Ebay changed (improved) the feedback system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brucebidder Posted September 10, 2008 Share Posted September 10, 2008 And the...After all, if you (bidder) aren't bothering to leave me feedback, why would I bother? I'm probably alot busier anyway. ...*IS* turd scented. That takes some balls to say that a customer has to "bother" with thanking you for taking their money and giving you profit. Sorry, but go into a store, buy their product, and let the manager come up and say "aren't you going to THANK me??? 'cause if you don't *I'M* not going to thank you". I think a lot of sellers need to get off their high horse and remember where they'd be without customers. Out of business. ...And blame Ebay all you want. The sellers who have been playing games withholding feedback like some electronic hostage are the reason Ebay changed (improved) the feedback system. When you remove one side from having an opinion regardless of the reason this is not improved. Also ebay originally set up the feedback system so you could see what kind of seller or BUYER you were doing with. It is not like going into a store and the manager asking you to thank him. It is... The way ebay set it up as a series of checks and balances. While I agree that feedback hostage was a huge problem the current system blows much worse. Now one side has absolutely no opinion, thats like me slapping my wife and telling her to like it and her only recourse is "yes dear". Ebay has now entered the 50's time capsule. What should be done to fix it but never will: I always thought a double blind system would of been the answer. Neither feedback would be displayed until both feedback were submitted without the other being influenced by one another. If one side doesn't leave feedback within 60 days(time for paypal claims to be fully finished 45 and 15 processing time) an automatic generic positive should be given. THis way everyone can be truthful and the a$$holes who feel that leaving feedback as a buyer is to complicated for them can foget about it as a feedback will be given regardless. Of course I'm sure these people who feel leaving feedback is to much are the same people that don't vote and then bitch about what the politicians are doing. Just my thoughts its worth about a penny. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lemoncurry Posted September 10, 2008 Share Posted September 10, 2008 And as much as my buddy jetset and I have butted heads over this very topic in the past, I must agree that now it's folly to withhold feedback once they pay. Apparently eBay decided they need more buyers more than they need to retain certain kinds of sellers... Too many buyers felt unappreciated. I can see the scenario from their point of view, at a store the clerk says thank you right when you pay, not in a couple weeks if you never return the item. Buyers see feedback as that thank you. People at a store don't have numbers over their heads to indicate their difficulty to deal with. Sellers, meanwhile, need that feedback to build their rep, and now to possibly lower their fees! It's a whole different kettle of fish. Feedback was broken from the get-go, buying and selling should have been tallied separately, guess it's too late now... eBay claims they are dealing swiftly with problem/scam/etc buyers. I hope I never need to find out just how well, knock on silicon. Meanwhile, I'm leaving thank you feedback right away now, I don't want to tick off any touchy customers and get an unretaliatable neg... As ianoid found out, they're out there and happy to hair trigger a neg over something so minor, and eBay lets it stand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brucebidder Posted September 10, 2008 Share Posted September 10, 2008 (edited) Too many buyers felt unappreciated. I can see the scenario from their point of view, at a store the clerk says thank you right when you pay, not in a couple weeks if you never return the item. Buyers see feedback as that thank you. People at a store don't have numbers over their heads to indicate their difficulty to deal with. Sellers, meanwhile, need that feedback to build their rep, and now to possibly lower their fees! It's a whole different kettle of fish. Feedback was broken from the get-go, buying and selling should have been tallied separately, guess it's too late now... eBay claims they are dealing swiftly with problem/scam/etc buyers. I hope I never need to find out just how well, knock on silicon. Meanwhile, I'm leaving thank you feedback right away now, I don't want to tick off any touchy customers and get an unretaliatable neg... As ianoid found out, they're out there and happy to hair trigger a neg over something so minor, and eBay lets it stand. Great analogy about the clerk at the store. I agree that feedback hostage was a huge problem. As a seller and a buyer I always thought that was crap. Although now they should just forget the seller leaving feedback at all whats the point. Automatically give the buyer a positive with a completed transaction message, is what ebay should do with their shitty new system. Edited September 10, 2008 by brucebidder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
classics Posted September 10, 2008 Share Posted September 10, 2008 Since 1997 I've always left feedback for buyers when they pay and I don't ever really being hosed because of it. I've dealt with a few buyers I wanted to strangle over the years but I never thought it was because I left feedback first. Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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