The official "ColecoVision 2" thread

[opcode]

Thanks opcode for the information. Therefore, the new Colecovision 2 is going to have composite video, S-Video, component video, and analog RGB. That is great for someone that wants to connect the video game system to an older CRT or even an older CRT computer monitor. However all the new computer monitors are using either DVI or HDMI connections with no analog connections. There is low cost DVI to HDMI adapters available. I have used a Colecovision computer software emulator on a large flat panel before and it looks great using a digital connection. It’s too bad the ColecoVision II with not have a built in HDMI output which would increase sells. However as a ColecoVision fan I will be interested in the component video output feature. Component video inputs are available on all or most HDTV’s today, however in a few years consumer electronics TV manufactories will most likely drop component video inputs just as they have dropped S-Video from the new HDTV’s.

 

I don't think you get it. The video chips we have available are all analog. To convert analog to digital realm you need a frame grabber, which is beyond the scope and price range of this project. As I indicated you can buy a converter with a frame grabber and then use the RGB output from the CV2 if you want.

I got that you are an super uber HDMI fan, but that is unfortunately the reality of things.

And btw, like almost every console ever made, the CV2 is aimed mainly to be connected to regular TVs, not computer monitors. So you are right about S-video, but AFAIK composite and component are still widely available.

Edited March 14, 2013 by opcode

[HDTV1080P]

_{I hope the Expansion module interface will still exist on the new ColecoVision II since without that feature it would be a downgrade in quality compared to the original 1982 ColecoVision. For example some people still use the expansion module #1 to play Atari 2600 games. Unless someone designs a software emulation for the Ultimate SD cartridge so that it plays Atari 2600 rom images the Atari 2600 adapter will still be needed. In addition, the Adam computer which is expansion module #3 is used to play Coleco Supergames that are much better then the original 32K Colecovision cartridges.}

 

_{Now if the expansion module interface were removed as a cost saving decision I hope the ColecoVision II would have another memory to emulate an Adam computer with the use of an Ultimate SD cartridge.}

 

_{The ColecoVision II should have USB 3.0 ports so that a USB keyboard, USB trackball, USB steering wheel, and USB game controllers can be used. Also USB floppy disks could be used if it were to emulate a Adam computer.}

_{I am just throwing out some ideas to think about.}

Edited March 14, 2013 by HDTV1080P

[Pixelboy]

_{I hope the Expansion module interface will still exist on the new ColecoVision II since without that feature it would be a downgrade in quality compared to the original 1982 ColecoVision.}

 

A downgrade in quality? How the heck can you pass that kind fo judgement? That's just plain silly.

 

 

_{For example some people still use the expansion module #1 to play Atari 2600 games. Unless someone designs a software emulation for the Ultimate SD cartridge so that it plays Atari 2600 rom images the Atari 2600 adapter will still be needed.}

 

If you want to play Atari 2600 games, why don't you just buy an Atari 2600 console? They're built like tanks and they're a dime a dozen on eBay.

 

 

_{In addition, the Adam computer which is expansion module #3 is use to play Coleco Supergames that are much better the original 32K Colecovision cartridges.}

 

_{You apparently never got the memo: Some Adam games have been converted to CV cartridge, namely Dragon's Lair and Zaxxon Super Game, and they run fine with the SGM plugged into the expansion port. Secondly, I don't know anyone who prefers the Expansion Module #3 over the standalone version of the Adam.}

 

_{Now if the expansion module interface were removed as a cost saving decision I hope the ColecoVision II would have another memory to emulate an Adam computer with the use of an Ultimate SD cartridge.}

 

_{Okay, now you're not making any sense.}

 

 

_{The ColecoVision II should have USB 3.0 ports so that a USB keyboard, USB trackball, USB steering wheel, and USB game controllers can be used. Also USB floppy disks could be used if it were to emulate a Adam computer.}

_{I am just throwing out some ideas to think about.}

 

The only thing I'm thinking about is how not to get angry at you for posting such nonsense. The bottom line is that not only is there no point in keeping the expansion port in the CV2, but it's also technically impossible to do if you integrate the components of the SGM (extra RAM and extra sound chip) into the CV2's design.

[HDTV1080P]

I don't think you get it. The video chips we have available are all analog. To convert analog to digital realm you need a frame grabber, which is beyond the scope and price range of this project. As I indicated you can buy a converter with a frame grabber and then use the RGB output from the CV2 if you want.

I got that you are an super uber HDMI fan, but that is unfortunately the reality of things.

And btw, like almost every console ever made, the CV2 is aimed mainly to be connected to regular TVs, not computer monitors. So you are right about S-video, but AFAIK composite and component are still widely available.

 

Ok I understand now, even though all modern videogame systems have a HDMI output, adding that HDMI feature to the ColecoVision II would be too costly.

 

So the analog RGB output will be the best quality output on the ColecoVision II. The problem is I own nothing with a RGB input. My question is would one see a difference in quality between using a direct component video output compared to using an external RGB to HDMI conversion box?

 

If I purchase the ColecoVision II I most likely will only use the Component video output since I doubt there would be an advantage to using a RGB to HDMI external conversion unit. The only time an external RGB to HDMI conversion device would be needed is for a modern flat panel computer monitor that only has a DVI/HDMI input. There are also component video to HDMI conversion devices, however in theory a RGB to HDMI conversion device should be better quality.

Edited March 14, 2013 by HDTV1080P

[HDTV1080P]

Pixelboy the expansion port on the original ColecoVision is important feature since Adam users could have RGB and component video outputs which is lacking on the standalone Adam. That is a big quality upgrade compared to composite video. However if all the Adam videogames were ported over to the ColecoVision II with a USB keyboard support then the expansion port would not be that important anymore.

[+grips03]

[opcode]

I am gonna try to explain it a last time. We are using 1980s microchips here, and that includes the video chip. This is NOT a modern video game so you cannot compare it to what Nintendo/Sony/Microsoft are doing. It is more like a what-if kind of machine, something that could have been done during the 80s, because that is where the technology is from. We can only output analog. HDMI isn't an option, period.

And the CV2 isn't going to be compatible with the ADAM, sorry.

[+grips03]

I can see these pins are connected internally in the CV. I've not used the steering wheel or roller controller, do those devices use pin 7 and 9?

Edited March 14, 2013 by grips03

[opcode]

I can see these pins are connected internally in the CV. I've not used the steering wheel or roller controller, do those devices use pin 7 and 9?

 

Yep.

[HDTV1080P]

I am gonna try to explain it a last time. We are using 1980s microchips here, and that includes the video chip. This is NOT a modern video game so you cannot compare it to what Nintendo/Sony/Microsoft are doing. It is more like a what-if kind of machine, something that could have been done during the 80s, because that is where the technology is from. We can only output analog. HDMI isn't an option, period.

And the CV2 isn't going to be compatible with the ADAM, sorry.

 

Ok, I now understand. Instead of using a modern PC with a Linux operating system to emulate a ColecoVision II machine you plan on using 1980’s microchips so no emulation is needed. Does this mean the 1980’s microchips are still in production? Is the ColecoVision II machine going to use factory new parts or will some of the 1980’s microchips be around 30 years old? What I am worried about is if old parts were used from 30 years ago then the ColecoVision II would need to be repaired just like the current 1982 ColecoVision needs repaired since the parts are wearing out.

 

Currently I use my Adam computer expansion module #3 with the 1982 ColecoVision to mess around with Adam programs and Adam Supergames. It is my understanding that the Expansion module #3 Adam computer will work with a modified 1982 ColecoVision that has component video outputs. So when you said the ColecoVision II will not be compatible with the Adam then you most likely mean the ColecoVision II will not have front expansion module interface.

Edited March 14, 2013 by HDTV1080P

[+grips03]

Yep.

 

Thanks for the confirmation. No need to worry about this. I can adjust hardware as needed if +5 is really that important to me. Most likely it isn't, as I've not done it yet on my original CV.

Edited March 14, 2013 by grips03

[HDTV1080P]

Here are some ideas for the ColecoVision II

 

Once and a while I see factory new ColecoVisions on EBAY for $500+ and used modified ColecoVisions on EBAY with a component video mod for around $500. So my point is I would be willing to spend $300+ on a ColecoVision II machine if the quality was better than the original ColecoVision machine.

1. The ColecoVision II should have the ability to receive firmware updates to fix bugs and improve on the operating system. An Ethernet jack with an internet connection would be ideal for firmware updates, however that is unrealistic. Instead, the firmware updates to the ColecoVision II could be installed by using a USB or SD flash drive.
   

1. The ColecoVision II should have 4 USB 3.0 ports and a SD card interface: With a software emulation to the ColecoVision II, USB game controllers could be supported. This includes USB keyboards, USB steering wheels, USB trackballs, USB joysticks, etc.
   

1. It has already been mentioned that the ColecoVision II will not support the Atari 2600 adapter or the Adam computer adapter. However if the ColecoVision II has the built in Supergame module then Adam supergames can be ported over to the ColecoVision II. For games like Jeopardy, Family Feud, and 2010:The Text Adventure game a USB keyboard that emulated an Adam keyboard would be needed. Since 99% of people use their Adams for exclusive Adam Coleco videogames, then if the ColecoVision II could play all the original Coleco Adam videogames that would be a popular feature. The ColecoVision II will need to be able to read and write so that the supergame hall of fame feature works.
   

Edited March 14, 2013 by HDTV1080P

[ApolloBoy]

Why the hell would you need USB 3.0 for keyboards and mice?

[HDTV1080P]

Why the hell would you need USB 3.0 for keyboards and mice?

 

USB 3.0 is backwards compatible with USB 2.0. Yes, USB 2.0 would be fine for keyboards and game controllers.

[+Darrin9999]

He just does not understand!! Opcode i`m in for 1 for sure!!

[NIAD]

QUOTE

 

“Total sales of the ColecoVision are uncertain but were ultimately in excess of 2 million units, as sales had reached that number by the spring of 1984”

http://en.wikipedia....ki/ColecoVision

Wikipedia is wrong as usual... I though this was discussed previously.

[NIAD]

 

Here are some ideas for the ColecoVision II

 

You could have just posted a link to the same questions, remarks and suggestions that you made a year or two ago... pretty much identical stuff and Opcode explained things then as well.

[HDTV1080P]

Wikipedia is wrong as usual... I though this was discussed previously.

 

I know we discussed how many ColecoVisions were made in the past. However someone mentioned several thousands and in reality it was in the millions. So I posted a link that mentioned that at the very minimum 2 million ColecoVisions were made, however some claim 4 million or more were made.

 

What is wrong with Wikipedia saying over 2 million ColecoVisions were made?

[HDTV1080P]

You could have just posted a link to the same questions, remarks and suggestions that you made a year or two ago... pretty much identical stuff and Opcode explained things then as well.

 

The difference now is the ColecoVision II appears to be closer to becoming a reality. I hope to see official specs released soon. I do not want to have to use my old 30 year old Coleco videogame controllers from the 1982 with the ColecoVision II system. Hopefully a USB interface will allow one to plug in USB game controllers. Or at least I hope to see brand new 9 pin game controllers to use with the system. USB steering wheels and trackballs would be ideal for the ColecoVission II.

 

The ability to offer firmware updates to correct operating system problems should be a priority on the ColecoVision II.

Edited March 15, 2013 by HDTV1080P

[+nanochess]

Wikipedia is wrong as usual... I though this was discussed previously.

I was asking for this when I registered for the first time in Atariage, but now I cannot find the post nor who told me the number of six million of units as exact, because he said he wrote a book including this data if my memory is exact.

[+nanochess]

The difference now is the ColecoVision II appears to be closer to becoming a reality. I hope to see official specs released soon. I do not want to have to use my old 30 year old Coleco videogame controllers from the 1982 with the ColecoVision II system. Hopefully a USB interface will allow one to plug in USB game controllers. Or at least I hope to see brand new 9 pin game controllers to use with the system. USB steering wheels and trackballs would be ideal for the ColecoVission II.

 

The ability to offer firmware updates to correct operating system problems should be a priority on the ColecoVision II.

As an experienced one in the hardware/software field, I can tell you that USB are pretty complicated matters over a Z80 without specialized peripherals and HDMI is far of reach for homebrewers as it requires specialized and costly chips (even with royalties if my memory is right!)

 

You should understand that Opcode has done almost everything by himself and it requires a great lot of knowledge, and you're asking some things that are pretty possible in a Playstation or xBox supported by a lot of people and big companies, but all this would be terribly hard if not impossible for a single homebrewer.

 

People like Eduardo (Opcode) are scarce and they do everything as possible in time and possibilities, including long beta tests because firmware updates are not feasible in most of cases.

 

What you've asked for a Colecovision II is far from being practical.

[opcode]

HDMIs and USBs 3.0 aside, we are starting with a very basic configuration, and will eventually expand from that depending on price, board size, etc.

- Modern Z80 8MHz, speed can be selected by software. Wait states can be disabled by software. So fully compatible (3.58MHz, 1 wait state), still could run about 150% faster when 7.14MHz, no wait states is selected.

- 32KB of main RAM

- 128KB flash memory BIOS

- V9958 with 128KB SRAM. Could implement direct VRAM access but that isn't our goal for the first version. We save board space and chip count by using SRAM instead of the regular Texas DRAM.

- composite, S-video, component and RGB video outputs

- SN76489 and YM2203 for 6 PSG + 3 FM sound channels. Mono sound output

- 15 pin parallel port for advanced controllers a la Famicom

- Glue logic implemented in CPLDs for reduced chip count. Interrupt controller, decoders, mode controllers, etc.

- CV cartridge slot

- 2 CV joystick ports

- Uses regular 9V power supply

 

Once we get that running and stable, I can think of a couple of additions that would be very cool to have.

[HDTV1080P]

Thanks OpCode for the specs. It sounds like the ColecoVision II is going to use all new electronic components in the design. Since the BIOS has flash memory this means firmware updates are possible to make improvements to the operating system. Stereo sound would have been nice for new videogame developers, however mono sound is just fine.

 

A built in Supergame module would be ideal feature to add to the ColecoVision II system since someone mentioned that a few of the Adam Supergames have been ported over to the standard ColecoVision when using the Supergame module.

 

For mainstream ColecoVision owners who are only interested in playing standard classic ColecoVision rom images of up to 32K, they will be happy with the design of the ColecoVision II. In theory the Opcode ColecoVision II will be the best ColecoVision clone yet since it will have RGB and component video output compared to most people who are still using RF channel 3 and 4.

 

I am going to have to decide if the ColecoVision II is the system I want since I am a heavy Adam user. I might be better off just modifying my 1982 ColecoVision so that it can output component video, then I could use all my Adam games and programs.

 

What would really interest me is if all the Coleco Adam games were ported over to the Ultimate SD cartridge or the super game module. If some how the ColecoVision II could play all the Coleco Adam games by emulation or by ports then that would be popular feature. Of course to port all the Coleco Adam games over to the ColecoVision II one would need to be able to somehow plug in a PS/2 keyboard or USB keyboard since some Coleco Adam games require a keyboard. I doubt one wants to add AdamNet to the ColecoVision II.

 

Thanks again for the specs Opcode, and I pray the project is a success.

Edited March 15, 2013 by HDTV1080P

[Ransom]

CV2 is going to be awesome!!

[opcode]

Thanks OpCode for the specs. It sounds like the ColecoVision II is going to use all new electronic components in the design. Since the BIOS has flash memory this means firmware updates are possible to make improvements to the operating system. Stereo sound would have been nice for new videogame developers, however mono sound is just fine.

 

Sound is mono because both sound chips are mono.

 

A built in Supergame module would be ideal feature to add to the ColecoVision II system since someone mentioned that a few of the Adam Supergames have been ported over to the standard ColecoVision when using the Supergame module.

 

As you can see from the specs, the SGM is built in. 32KB RAM + YM2203 (same as AY-3-8910 + 3 FM channels). Castlevania should sound awesome.

Edited March 15, 2013 by opcode