Capcom's Whining: A Response

[Hyper_Eye]

Well we have a great example now. Silent Hill Homecoming was released for PS3 and 360 and now Silent Hill Shattered Memories is a Wii exclusive. After the numbers settle in these should be pretty good for a comparison. Obviously Konami felt the Wii had the potential to warrant an exclusive from one of their biggest franchises. They felt it was even worthy of an exclusive that takers one of their biggest franchises in a new direction. It will be interesting to see how well it does.

[moycon]

Obviously Konami felt the Wii had the potential to warrant an exclusive from one of their biggest franchises. They felt it was even worthy of an exclusive that takers one of their biggest franchises in a new direction. It will be interesting to see how well it does.

 

Hopefully it'll do better than SoulCalibur Legends did for Namco. All those millions of Wii's in consumers living rooms and only 0.16 in sales.

[DracIsBack]

One thing that is missing in all these discussions of numbers. I'd be curious to know the number of units that the average video game sells on any of the platforms. People tend to look at blockbusters and compare but there are piles of games on all three systems that barely crack 100K in sales.

 

Also, I'd also like to know the typical breakeven point of a game on each system.

 

While I agree with Moycon's point that it can seem disappointing when Wii versions of games lag behind the sales of the same game on PS3/XBox 360, I think that it's not always a basis for saying the Wii should be abandoned.

 

Call Of Duty: World At War was a huge seller.

 

8.4 million on the PS3. 8.5 million on the XBox 360.

 

The Will sold far less at 1.4 million.

 

If you had a "glass is half empty perspective", you'd say, "it tanked. Look at how it trailed the 360".

 

If you had a "half full perspective", you could equally argue that the Wii version sold over a million copies and that most games on any platform do not crack the million mark.

 

What if you were a producer for Call Of Duty World at War and your breakeven was 200,000 units on each system? All three are generating sizeable profits and worth continuing.

 

I remember this with the GameCube as well. Lots of complaints that "no one bought any third party games". If that were true, no third parties would be making games on the Wii or the Cube yet both system ended up with hundreds. And people keep coming out with them.

 

So obviously, developers are making profits or they wouldn't continue.

Edited January 10, 2010 by DracIsBack

[Cybergoth]

Obviously Konami felt the Wii had the potential to warrant an exclusive from one of their biggest franchises. They felt it was even worthy of an exclusive that takers one of their biggest franchises in a new direction. It will be interesting to see how well it does.

Hopefully it'll do better than SoulCalibur Legends did for Namco. All those millions of Wii's in consumers living rooms and only 0.16 in sales.

 

SoulCalibur Legends has a Metascore of 54...

[nathanallan]

Next chance I get I'll have to play SC Legends. I'm a fan since the original, so give it a whirl.

[Cybergoth]

See why I think the majority of Wii owners could care less about video games?

 

After being burned 2-3 times by shit video games like Carnival Games, they apparently could care less about buying more shovelware.

 

Instead your not existing Wii video gamers invested into 20 Million copies of Mario Kart and 10 Million copies of NSMBW.

 

Poor 3rd party developers. Their shovelware trash is dying on the shelf.

 

Poor Ubisoft. No Babyz and Petz and Imagine salez.

Poor EA. No MySims and Petshop and GI Joe sales.

Poor Capcom. No Neopets, MotoGP and Spyborgs sales.

 

And look how good their Dragon Age, Assasins Creed and Resident Evil 5 sell on the HDs. I really wonder why

 

Maybe the Wii audience just isn't that dumb after all?

 

Maybe those company execs didn't notice that the shovelware goldrush is already over?

 

How on earth dare they blaming us customers for not buying their shit?

[nathanallan]

Something I'd love to see is a huge-world 2D RPG on a platform. Remember those? Random encounters on a 2D field, then a 2.5D fighting field.

 

Forget 3D, leave that to the PS3/360. I'd rather play a fun game with cartoony 2D characters any day.

 

Now I want a Wii.

[DracIsBack]

Sega raised an interesting point in their recent assessment, though it does send some mixed messages when they later said that they probably won't do other mature Wii titles.

 

"Circling back to the whole mature Wii thing, again SEGA took a gamble, we put out some pretty decent content. I mean, House of the Dead: Overkill and MadWorld are great Wii games. They really are, especially House of the Dead: Overkill. That game is funny…Yes [it did better than MadWorld]. I mean they’re both doing okay and at the end of the day we’ll make our numbers, that’s good. Conduit’s done quite well for us. It’s been slow burn. That’s the other thing you find out about the Wii. It’s not necessarily first 3 weeks like most titles. And DS. It’s a longer burn, actually. So panicked at first, but it’s like okay."

 

Speaking of Madworld, I just picked it up and am enjoying it ... grossness and all.

[Mendon]

I went to Amazon and looked at THIS LIST of Capcom Wii releases.

 

14 releases:

 

5 of them Resident Evil titles

Okami

Dead Rising

Zack & Wiki

We Love Golf

Spyborgs

Harvey Birdman

Mortimer Beckett

Moto GP

Neopets

 

 

Just my opinion but I believe Capcom (and several other publishers) need to really look at exactly what they are offering to sell before blaming consumers for any low sales.

 

If the burger is unappealing and tastes bad, people ain't eating!

 

 

Mendon

[moycon]

Speaking of Madworld, I just picked it up and am enjoying it ... grossness and all.

 

Great game, one of my favorite on the Wii. So unique and fun.

 

SoulCalibur Legends has a Metascore of 54...

 

So your point is it sold like crap because of the low ratings?

So lets pull some top tier 3rd party games that had top ratings...

 

Madworld is 81 on Metacritic Cybergoth. Still sold like crap

 

Madworld sales = .39 mil

 

Zack & Wiki got an 87 on Metacritic

 

Zack & Wiki sales = .38 mil

 

House of the Dead another great game,and has a following. 78 on Metacritic, didn't sell all that hot

 

House of the Dead sales= .5 mil (This is actually a pretty high amount of sales for a Wii 3rd party title, sad eh?)

 

Boy and his Blob a cute high quality family game and an old school favorite. 80 on Metacritic

 

Boy and His Blob sales = .07

 

This is with over 68 million Wii's in peoples living rooms.

 

Now explain again why a serious 3rd party game producer would spend any time and money producing a quality title on the Wii?

Especially when someone can crap out a half ass game in a matter of weeks and sell just as many copies?

I think this seriously discourages many serious 3rd party producers from even bothering to try.

The lack of titles on the horizon might reflect this?

Just my opinion.

[Cybergoth]

SoulCalibur Legends has a Metascore of 54...

 

So your point is it sold like crap because of the low ratings?

 

Bad quality games usually don't sell, yes.

 

So lets pull some top tier 3rd party games that had top ratings...

 

Madworld is 81 on Metacritic Cybergoth. Still sold like crap

Madworld Sales = .39 mil

 

That actually sounds pretty good for an M-Rated black & White gorefest. It apparently outsold all of Clovers previous PS2 productions, Viewtiful Joe, God Hand and Okami and that even though the Wii install base is probably still smaller than the PS2s at their heyday.

 

Zack & Wiki got an 87 on Metacritic

Zack & Wiki sales = .38 mil

 

Name just one console based point & click adventure game that sold more copies.

 

House of the Dead another great game,and has a following. 78 on Metacritic, didn't sell all that hot

 

House of the Dead = .5 mil (This is actually a pretty high amount of sales for a Wii 3rd party title, sad eh?)

 

This sounds also pretty high for a lightgun game. But well, let's compare. What's the highest selling PS360 lightgun game again?

 

Boy and his Blob a cute high quality family game and a fan favorite 80 on Metacritic

Boy and His Blob sales = .07

 

This is with over 68 million Wii's in peoples living rooms.

 

Can't be that many Aunt Selmas and kids amongst them then

 

But seriously, games do flop occasionally, even good ones.

 

Now explain again why a serious 3rd party game producer would spend any time and money producing a quality title on the Wii?

 

Okay, let me see a real big budget AAA game fail on the Wii first. One that's comparable with Fallout 3, Resident Evil 5, Uncharted or Bayonetta. One that gets the full blown advertising campaign, with cinema and TV spots and whatnot. Then you can talk.

 

Especially when someone can crap out a half ass game in a matter of weeks and sell just as many copies?

 

Because they can't:

 

Neopets, MotoGP and Spybrogs combined didn't sell more copies than Zack & Wiki.

 

With Sonic aside, Segas three bestselling 2009 Wii games actually were Overkill, MadWorld and The Conduit. All their other titles (Virtua Tennis 2009, Daisy Fuentes Pilates, Puyo Puyo 7, Wacky World of Sports, Planet 51) did worse. => Jambo! Safari Animal Rescue sold 20K!

 

Dead Space Extraction actually did better than Littlest Pet Shop: Friends, G.I. Joe: The Rise of Cobra, MySims Party, Charm Girls Club: Pajama Party, SimAnimals Africa for Electronic Arts in 2009.

 

I think this seriously discourages many 3rd party producers from even bothering to try. Just my opinion though.

 

None of them ever seriously bothered to try. They're just pissed now that their shovelware doesn't sell anymore. The little Marvellous Entertainment has a better Wii lineup than EA, Ubisoft, Take 2, Atari, THQ, Square and Sega combined, They're just lacking the marketing force to push their gems like Nintendoes.

[moycon]

This sounds also pretty high for a lightgun game. But well, let's compare. What's the highest selling PS360 lightgun game again?

 

Time Crisis 4 sales 0.76m

 

Neopets, MotoGP and Spybrogs combined didn't sell more copies than Zack & Wiki.

 

They also probably cost next to nothing to release eh?

As far as high selling point and clicks, no clue. I'm guessing the Myst and Syberia series moved some units. Monkey Island games and Wallace & Gromit probably sold well. No data to support that though.

 

The only point your getting across to me is if they spend lots of time and lots of money on a Wii title, they might sell .2 mil more copies.

 

I do think a title like a Final Fantasy sequel or a Call of Duty title would sell a buttload of games. (1 mil+) But I'm also thinking most 3rd party developers don't have millions and millions to spend on a title, and months (years?) to produce one. Then there is the issues of spending extra time tweaking and perfecting the controls, why bother? Especially since the Wii has already shown them that spending the extra time and cash rarely pays off. I only listed a few random examples, there's plenty more.

[cimerians]

Most great games I've enjoyed have never selled well to the general public and thats fine with me.

(Going back to the Atari and Colecovision days)

 

Its sad but its not the systems fault but the companies behind the games. The ones that aim to make a quick buck with shovelware and those that do half-assed jobs EXPECTING to make a buck. Nintendo sure as hell doesn't mind do they? (Not sure if thats a problem too)

 

Capcom has done some cool games and some major crap too. I'd like to think most big game makers have laid a lot of eggs.

 

They are so big and their costs are so high they cant afford to make smaller market games. They do it on the PS3 and 360 too....I dont trust their bullsh~t, if they want to make a good Wii game they could. They have bigger prey to catch and that just sucks for us gamers.

[vdub_bobby]

I think this 3rd-party vs. 1st-party distinction doesn't exist.

 

I think its all brands. Nobody except videogame nerds cares about SEGA, Nintendo, Take Two, Rockstar, Capcom. Normal people think in terms of Mario, Zelda, Street Fighter, Halo, Grand Theft Auto, Madden, Call of Duty, etc.

 

And so I think that the reason that 3rd-parties haven't had a lot of big successes on the Wii is because, for the most part, they haven't brought their big franchises to the Wii - and on the few instances that they have, they're either late (COD4), half-assed (Need for Speed Carbon), some weird spinoff (Soul Calibur Legends), or in a niche genre (Dead Space Extraction).

 

But what company put their best development teams on the Wii version of their biggest franchises? Nintendo.

[moycon]

They have bigger prey to catch and that just sucks for us gamers.

 

I agree and I agree I love a lot of games that generally don't sell well. I just think games on the Wii sell even worse than usual, and it sends a messages to game developers because there are so many Wii units out there.

 

I think a title like Pro Evolution Soccer 2009 illustrates my point perfectly.

Got great reviews all around, Wii version got an 84 on Metacritic.

 

The sales on the Wii? .35 mil, compared to the PS3 which sold over 2 million copies and over a million on the 360.

It's obvious where the bigger prey is.

I agree it sucks for Wii gamers.

 

But what company put their best development teams on the Wii version of their biggest franchises? Nintendo.

 

Maybe the Wii is a big pain in the ass to develop games on? Maybe Nintendo screws 3rd party producers? You're right. It does seem odd. Game producers know how many Wii's have been sold. They know the potential. These are business men trying to make a buck. My theory is, based on previous releases, they have found it isn't worth the time and effort to put a "best development team" on a Wii version, the best selling Wii 3rd party games are ported music games that use their own controllers (not the Wii-Mote) and haven't changed a whole lot since the PS2 so who knows, maybe there are other reasons that aren't being considered.

[vdub_bobby]

But what company put their best development teams on the Wii version of their biggest franchises? Nintendo.

 

Maybe the Wii is a big pain in the ass to develop games on? Maybe Nintendo screws 3rd party producers? You're right. It does seem odd. Game producers know how many Wii's have been sold. They know the potential. These are business men trying to make a buck. My theory is, based on previous releases, they have found it isn't worth the time and effort to put a "best development team" on a Wii version, the best selling Wii 3rd party games are ported music games that use their own controllers (not the Wii-Mote) and haven't changed a whole lot since the PS2 so who knows, maybe there are other reasons that aren't being considered.

I think what happened is that the business execs at Capcom/EA/etc. saw the success of Wii Sports, Rayman Raving Rabbids, Mario Party 8, Carnival Games, etc. and they drew all the wrong conclusions from it. They drew the conclusion that Wii owners were indiscriminate party-game lovers and that they would buy any thing as long as it was on the Wii and had bright colors and mini games. And they have never let go of that impression, no matter what. So we got party game after minigame collection after family game: Boom Blox (EA), even more Rayman Raving Rabbids games (Ubisoft), Hasbro Family Game Night (EA), We Love Golf! (Capcom), Arcade Zone (Activision), etc. And we get C-quality PS2 ports, year-late downgraded releases of major games when they hit the Wii at all (Dead Rising, COD4), and just in general the short end of the stick. The amazing thing is that, apparently, EA/Capcom/Activision/etc. actually expected this giant flood of crappy games to sell well.

 

But instead of just looking at the good (but not great) sales of Game Party (2.1M), they should have also looked at the fantastic sales of Super Smash Bros. Brawl (9M), Zelda (5.5M), and Mario Kart Wii (20M) and realized that Wii owners aren't all soccer moms with 5-yr olds. Wii owners are all the same people that owned a GameCube and helped make Resident Evil 4 a hit, plus some Xbox/PS2 owners who were strapped for cash or excited about the motion controls or whatever PLUS all the soccer moms and grandmas that are now making Wii Fit a ridiculous hit.

 

The market is there for a AAA title; no one has even tried to reach it except Nintendo. I really think Epic Mickey is going to be a shock to a lot of suits at the other game studios - who are going to realize that they've been throwing money away for the last 4 years because they bought into the Wii backlash, and that while they were making a few bucks here and there with their throwaway party games and dumbed down ports, they could have been making real money if they had been willing to put some effort into it.

[moycon]

They drew the conclusion that Wii owners were indiscriminate party-game lovers and that they would buy any thing as long as it was on the Wii and had bright colors and mini games. And they have never let go of that impression, no matter what.

 

I could understand your theory if only crappy party games had ever been released on the Wii. It's simply not true though. A person can try and pick apart and dismiss my examples, but eventually they'd have to yield because the numbers are too numerous, and the quality can't be denied. How can you blame these execs? I just don't see why you expect them to think otherwise when decent, highly regarded titles like Elebits, Deadly Creatures, Mushroom Men, Little King's Story, Cursed Mountain, Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles and any of the other numerous games I've already listed sell so poorly. I just don't get it I guess.

[phaxda]

I was one of those people who bought a Wii for Wii Sports, which I still play a lot (I want a 300 game in bowling). I weigh myself on Wii Fit often. I have a nice Animal Crossing town that I tend with my wife and sometimes my niece and nephew come over to (virtually) visit. I play Mario Kart non-stop when I have the time because I love the online competition, and enjoy the very occasional game of Tiger Woods 10. And that's pretty much it for my Wii gaming and I am happy with it. I will probably buy Wii Fit Plus at some point. It would take a TON of hype for me to buy a game from Capcom or anyone else--I'm talking like perfect reviews or a revolutionary control scheme or insane graphics, I don't know. Key is, it has to be jaw-dropping and awesome for me to drop $50 on it.

 

I also own a PS2 I still play a lot, Dreamcast, Saturn, and the good old Ataris, of course. Thing is, I have TONS of games and I am content with them. Does that make me less than a "real" gamer just because I don't need to get my hands on every new first-person shooter that comes out? And if I'm not going to buy those I am sure as hell not going to purchase "dumb-downed ports."

 

Capcom wants to sell games? Make awesome games that everyone want to play together. it's really that simple.

[xg4bx]

The issue with game producers is, the Wii has like twice the Wii units in consumers living rooms, therefor having twice the consumers, but doesn't sell twice the games when a HUGE release on all 3 platforms comes out.

 

That's a problem.

 

You either develop a kick ass game for the Wii and the Wii only (Which more more than likely fail) or you move on.

Face it, the majority of Wii owners could give a crap less about decent games.

Maybe thank Wii Sports and Wii Fit for that?

(I personally know 2 households that bought a Wii for Wii Fit...you probably do to, x that by everyone here)

It's a lot.

That's the downside to getting non-gamers interested in game consoles.

 

thats the debate i have with people. all the time. the good stuff doesn't sell. period. it lends complete credence to the "wii is a fad" mentality. you see it, i saw it working at gamestop for 2 years:the average wii owner only buys whats popular. they have NO interest in anything more than wii fit/sports.

 

resident evil darkside chronicles is a great game and got good reviews. seriously, the resident evil name alone should have sold a couple hundred thousand. same with dead space. good reviews, semi-familiar i.p. what happened?

 

if games like those dont sell, what hope does great obscure games like muramasa, cursed mountain, little kings story, etc have? look at the sales figures, not even absolute shit like the petz games sell well. for a 50 million install base even the mario games should sell better.

 

the only argument that makes sense is that a very large % of wii sales were fad purchases.

[Austin]

resident evil darkside chronicles is a great game and got good reviews. seriously, the resident evil name alone should have sold a couple hundred thousand. same with dead space. good reviews, semi-familiar i.p. what happened?

 

the only argument that makes sense is that a very large % of wii sales were fad purchases.

 

Outside of the main series, most of the RE games have been blatantly average. I hope Capcom finally wakes up to this fact and quits milking their IPs, like they always do, for more than they're worth.

 

Regarding earlier ideas about who owns Wii systems, I personally know at least four or five families that own a Wii, and like the stereotype goes (which I think is more truth than not), they bought it for Wii Sports and/or Wii Fit. If they happened to buy any of the Mario games (seems to most-frequently be Mario Kart), those are the only other games they bought. Of my dozen or so gamer friends in this area, only two of them own Wii systems. I tell the others that they should have one, but they each give me some excuse to stick with their 360s or PS3s, and bash the Wii for being a 'casual' system (these are gamers that typically own every system on the market as well and also collect, although I do admit they've never been the most open-minded people out there). Ironically, though, most of their parents or non-immediate family own one, though, and they've all at least played Wii Sports, heh. My own family falls into the earlier category as well--my parents bought one for the family, bought Wii fit, Wii Sports, and a few games for my brother and myself when we're around (The Marios, ironically). Of course, I'm really the only one that's ever used it (and still use it--Just bought CV: ReBirth today). The rest of the family only busts it out when everyone is gathered with beer in hand. I keep telling my Mom to play some Wii instead of watching the news and skipping through a thousand channels each night, but she never bothers. And with that, of course she's not going to go out and buy more games. How many families do you know that fall into this category? My assumption is, given my experience, it's probably a lot.

 

Another dilemma for me is when I personally shop for Wii games, I get really hesitant to pay the price, and this is partly due to the fact that I could *also* be putting this same money towards a more modern, impressive format. For instance, $30 for a rehash of a first person shooter I could play (in all of its glory) on my PC (And I could probably pay less since PC prices drop quicker)? Or $30 or more for a game that is a generation old? The only $50 game I've bothered to buy is the New SMB (Even that was cheating, as I traded in a bunch of the shovelware I shamefully purchased to get it). How often does this happen to regular gamers?

Edited January 11, 2010 by Austin

[Cybergoth]

BTW: Did anyone else notice that GTA Chinatown Wars sold thrice as many copies on the DS than on the PSP?

 

So the DS apparently is the mature handheld and the PSP the kiddie / aunt selma portable of choice?

[Austin]

BTW: Did anyone else notice that GTA Chinatown Wars sold thrice as many copies on the DS than on the PSP?

 

So the DS apparently is the mature handheld and the PSP the kiddie / aunt selma portable of choice?

 

LOL, I think the DS also owns at least three times the market share (Probably a helluva lot more), and unlike the Wii, I would say that younger users fall into the greater buying-majority.

Edited January 11, 2010 by Austin

[nathanallan]

Also can't forget that the DS doesn't tend to fall apart like the PSP. Just based on the repairs I'd pass (unless someone gave me one, much like my orignal Xbox )

[DracIsBack]

Regarding earlier ideas about who owns Wii systems, I personally know at least four or five families that own a Wii, and like the stereotype goes (which I think is more truth than not), they bought it for Wii Sports and/or Wii Fit. If they happened to buy any of the Mario games (seems to most-frequently be Mario Kart), those are the only other games they bought. Of my dozen or so gamer friends in this area, only two of them own Wii systems.

 

I wish people would stop assuming statistical significance, based upon "I know a couple of people and they do this."

 

It simply doesn't add up. If Nintendo has sold 65 million Wii games and over 400 million Wii games have been sold, the stereotype of "only having it for Wii Sports or Wii Fit" doesn't seem to hold" as that's an average of like 6 Wii games per owner.

 

I'm not saying that there isn't merit to the suggestion that Wii owners as a whole by fewer games and/or different games than XBox 360 and PS3 owners. But the pervasive view in some forums that "most Wii owners only bought it for Wii Sports and Wii Fit" sounds more like competitive "fear uncertainty and doubt" mongering than anything else. They buy games. If they didn't, 400 million of them wouldn't have been sold on the Wii.

 

Also, has anyone seen an official definition by Nintendo, Sony or Microsoft on how a 'casual gamer' is differentiated from a "hardcore gamer" from a market segmentation perspective?

 

Anyone seen data points on what percentage of Wii owners would fall into each of the above buckets?

 

Only thing I've ever seen is this and it's a bit dated:

 

http://kotaku.com/50...hardcore-gamers

Edited January 11, 2010 by DracIsBack

[Mendon]

Several posts have commented on House of the Dead sales figures on the Wii, especially vs. Wii console ownership. I'm not sure where to look but are there any sales figures for the House of the Dead series on Dreamcast and Xbox vs. console ownership? What about the spin-offs Zombie Revenge and Typing of the Dead?

 

My point: I'm wondering how viable a name House of the Dead really is. As an example, I'm not sure how successful House of the Dead 2 was on the DC (vs. console ownership) and House of the Dead 3 on Xbox (vs console ownership). Maybe the HotD series hasn't been a very successful franchise at all after its initial release on the DC, which I believe was a big seller for the system.

 

Just curious.

 

 

 

Mendon