Flashback 2+ for preorder on Atari.com, get a free T-shirt

[mos6507]

I remember at the time Flashback2 was winding down, Curt was talking about how the most recent revision was going to be 100% compatible. Was that Revision C or not? I'm just wondering what this will be able to run, like the Supercharger games.

[Curt Vendel]

New tapeouts were delivered to the factory back in 2006, but Atari never paid for new dies, so I doubt they were done, so this most likely is still the earlier rev with the illegal opcodes not applied to correct things.

 

The 2+ was a very quick thing, they wanted to keep costs at a minimum, everything got started in Nov and wrapped up in early Dec, it was originally only going to be for the cereal promotion, but its grown since then in volume.

 

 

Curt

 

I remember at the time Flashback2 was winding down, Curt was talking about how the most recent revision was going to be 100% compatible. Was that Revision C or not? I'm just wondering what this will be able to run, like the Supercharger games.

[Curt Vendel]

I did ADV II, Tony Wong did Return to Haunted House, Dennis Debro did Atari Climber and fixed Yar's Return (that was done by the Chinese guys) and Asteroids Deluxe (Chinese guys original did), John Champaeu fixed Lunar Lander and Caverns of Mars (both done by the Chinese guys)

 

 

I had a lot of issues tracking all of the objects in the larger amount of rooms in ADV II

 

You actually coded Adventure II for the 2600 yourself or are you talking about your subcontractor?

[Curt Vendel]

I would certainly have loved to have had a ton of homebrews added onto the system, but there was absolutely no time for that, nor budget, this was a very quick project to complete, so there would've been no time to get contracts with homebrew authors in place, ask Tony Wong, Dennis Debro and others --- it took months to get those contracts going during FB2 so there was no time for FB2+

 

Star Raiders does work on the console, but the video touch keypad has to be slightly modified by changing the 2 resistors on it to correct for the voltage variation of the FB2 compared to a 2600 (3.3v versus 5v) so the game was not included.

 

 

 

Curt

 

 

 

You guys that are complaining about the non-Atari games just don't get it. The licensing fees would most likely double the cost of the unit, and hurt the bottom line. Let's be frank; there is only a small percentage of people that will buy this, so Atari made the decision to keeps costs down and most importantly, keep the price of the FB down. This is nothing more than an impulse buy for people. If you guys got your wish to include Namco, Activision and Williams games, then would you still be so happy to purchase the FB if it was double the price, or more?

 

The increased price would take this out of the impulse buy category, and would definitely hurt total number of units sold. My only wish for this was that they went with ALL completely different games. I'm probably not going to buy one because I have a FB2, there just isn't enough reason for me to buy basically the same thing again.

 

I'd personally like to see just how much more the licensing fees would add to the cost of the unit. I paid around 40 CDN for mine from Walmart when the first FB2 came out. That's not really 'impulse' buy territory, but who knows, that could vary.

 

As a retro enthusiast, I would certainly pay more for better quality games.

 

I'm really not all that down on the unit, I'm just venting...lol, honestly. Don't take me the wrong way. My criticism is meant to be constructive, but I realize that posts on a board don't really amount to much...I just like to speak my mind on these things.

 

If all Atari wanted to do was just put out a product which, to me anyway, is less than the original FB2 for the sole reason of maximizing profits, then that speaks volumes on how narrow-minded their business practices are. I'd like to see this change in the future. Jakks does the same thing with their flimsy, rehashed plug n play sticks....put out the cheapest stuff they can and hope to make some profits without any innovations. Surely they must know that to make money, you gotta spend some money! A previous poster put up a really awesome list of games that would have made ANY gamer take a second look...and I'm certain that with a collection of the GREAT games that made this system what it was would be completely worth a price tag of an average game for a modern console...around 70 USD. Throw in some paddles?...now we're talkin!

 

FB2 vs FB1...HUGE improvements were made, and I would like to think that the sales figures reflected that. Of course I don't know the numbers, and my whole argument wouldn't hold up if the FB outsold the FB2 on novelty alone, but I can only assume it did better for Atari, otherwise we wouldn't be seeing a FB2+...and I'm sure that the FB3 will be more along the lines of what I'd like to see.

 

What about Eric Ball's games?...or the many other awesome (already available) homebrews out there? Medieval Madness would have been a great addition, and there's at least six more I can think of that would have made great additions.

 

I'll tell you what average gamers do....they look to see what games are included. First, they say "Wow! Atari, I used to love this f%&*ing thing!!!"...and then they see the list of games, say, "oh...I don't remember playing these ones" and pass it by. ONE great game could sell the unit, but I honestly can't see which "one great game" it would be on the FB2+.

[AFS]

This is good news, and much faster than I expected! Would be nice if it were picked up by Amazon, though. I don't care so much about the t-shirt, but would be nice to be able to use my Amazon Prime for free shipping . . .

 

Or if it does show up in Target I guess I can schlep out to Queens to buy one.

[ataridave]

So, are Asteroids Deluxe and Space Duel the 7800 versions? Because I know both came out for the 7800. But then, how would they run on 2600 hardware?

 

I really don't see why Atari keeps putting ancient sports games on these consoles, or on any of their collections. None of these games were ever as big, IIRC, as old sports games like Blades of Steele or Tecmo Bowl. Solaris, Midnight Magic, Jr. Pac-Man, or Road Runner would all be better choices, IMO.

 

And how about MotoRodeo? That game is awesome, and it costs over $100 on Ebay!

[Flojomojo]

Asteroids Deluxe and Space Duel are 2600 games that were made specifically for the Flashback 2 (which you should get, it's awesome). I think they're both hacks of the old VCS Asteroids ROM. As far as I know, Space Duel (the vector game from the arcade) has never been ported anywhere else, just emulated.

 

The other games you want are licensed games and are the property of other companies.

[GroovyBee]

Asteroids Deluxe and Space Duel are 2600 games that were made specifically for the Flashback 2 (which you should get, it's awesome). I think they're both hacks of the old VCS Asteroids ROM. As far as I know, Space Duel (the vector game from the arcade) has never been ported anywhere else, just emulated.

 

Not quite! 7800 Space Duel homebrew by PacManPlus :-

http://www.atariage.com/forums/topic/110466-7800-space-duel

[VectorGamer]

I would certainly have loved to have had a ton of homebrews added onto the system, but there was absolutely no time for that, nor budget, this was a very quick project to complete, so there would've been no time to get contracts with homebrew authors in place, ask Tony Wong, Dennis Debro and others --- it took months to get those contracts going during FB2 so there was no time for FB2+

 

 

What makes Flashbacks attractive to home brewers given that the system costs about the same as one home brew cart? Or are the profit margins comparable between Flashback and an individual cart?

[+poobah]

According to this guy, Compute! is now public domain, unless he is wrong or something has changed since March of 2008.

 

History on the COMPUTE! Gazette Series of Magazines: Compute Publications Formed on 1/8/1979

 

COMPUTE! Magazine, in May 1988 changed its focus to PC's and their clones. In the early 1990's COMPUTE! was sold to General Media. Ziff Davis bought COMPUTE!'s assets in 1994 and General Media had stopped publications before the sale. Compute!'s Gazette Magazine ceased publication entirely after 1995. Compute Publications International, Ltd. was administratively dissolved and suspended, and in March 2008, Ziff Davis Media, Inc. announced it had filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection, and subsequently dissolved. All contents of the COMPUTE! Gazette series have fallen into Public Domain.

 

eBay Auction -- Item Number: 160397344297

 

Rick Vendl II

 

"According to this guy..."

Not the basis of a sound legal argument

 

Note that things don't just "fall into Public Domain". Copyrights *expire*, and until they do, SOMEONE owns the copyright, even if muddied by business mergers, acquisitions, bankruptcies, etc. Copyrights often revert back to original owners/authors or their estates when businesses dissolve.

 

Quick Summary of expiration dates(US):

 

Publish date: Copyright

before 1923: Expired, now public domain

before 1964 and not renewed: Expired, now public domain

before 1978: Current, expires 95 years from date of publication (auto renewal)

after 1978: 70 years after author's death or 95 years after publication, or 120 years after creation, whichever is shorter

 

What a load of rot, eh?

 

Which also mean that those magazines wont be public domain until after we are all dead.

 

This doesn't apply to "sound recordings" which, thanks to the (Disney) copyright extension act of 1998, extended *all* sound recordings' expiration date to no sooner than February 15,2067

[ZylonBane]

What makes Flashbacks attractive to home brewers given that the system costs about the same as one home brew cart? Or are the profit margins comparable between Flashback and an individual cart?

Ummm... you do realize it's not an either/or proposition, right? You're essentially asking why a homebrewer would turn down free money.

[TrekkiELO]

So a new Menu section - Sports Arena has been added, Double Dunk, RS Boxing, RS Soccer, Super Baseball and Super Football have been added.

 

Hey Curt,

 

Just curious, how come even more Atari owned sports games couldn't have been added?

 

Bowling

Golf

Realsports Tennis

Realsports Volleyball

 

 

Thanks again,

 

Rick Vendl II

Edited January 24, 2010 by TrekkiELO

[Curt Vendel]

More could've, but the games were kept at 40, so the sports games were just to replace some of the games pulled out of the console.

 

 

So a new Menu section - Sports Arena has been added, Double Dunk, RS Boxing, RS Soccer, Super Baseball and Super Football have been added.

 

Hey Curt,

 

Just curious, how come even more Atari owned sports games couldn't have been added?

 

Bowling

Golf

Realsports Tennis

Realsports Volleyball

 

 

Thanks again,

 

Rick Vendl II

[TrekkiELO]

So why not Video Pinball, then Swordquest: Earthworld, Fireworld and Waterworld?

 

 

Licensing means $$$$

 

Atari went with only its owned assets on this project. No licenses.

 

Also Midnight Magic and Dark Chambers are no wholey owned by Atari, so they aren't used.

 

 

 

Curt

Edited January 24, 2010 by TrekkiELO

[TrekkiELO]

Well, you technically added another hidden paddle game, making it 43, so why not, was this also a time issue or would that have cost more, what?

 

 

Because an Atari Flashback 2+ with 50 games could've sounded so much better!

 

More could've, but the games were kept at 40, so the sports games were just to replace some of the games pulled out of the console.

 

 

So a new Menu section - Sports Arena has been added, Double Dunk, RS Boxing, RS Soccer, Super Baseball and Super Football have been added.

 

Hey Curt,

 

Just curious, how come even more Atari owned sports games couldn't have been added?

 

Bowling

Golf

Realsports Tennis

Realsports Volleyball

 

 

Thanks again,

 

Rick Vendl II

Edited January 24, 2010 by TrekkiELO

[VectorGamer]

What makes Flashbacks attractive to home brewers given that the system costs about the same as one home brew cart? Or are the profit margins comparable between Flashback and an individual cart?

Ummm... you do realize it's not an either/or proposition, right? You're essentially asking why a homebrewer would turn down free money.

 

"Free money" but the question was in the long run hurting sales of individual carts by peeps buying Flashbacks. It's most likely insignificant given the niche and the fact that most collectors are not going to say "I'm not gonna dish out $30 for Sea Wolf - I'll just wait until the Flashback comes out."

Edited January 24, 2010 by rmaerz

[ZylonBane]

So why not Video Pinball, then Swordquest: Earthworld, Fireworld and Waterworld?

 

For the love of god, look into the fine art of quote trimming. As just demonstrated.

[TrekkiELO]

For the love of god, look into the fine art of quote trimming. As just demonstrated.

 

So why pick on me when there are many other posters in this thread who have done the exact same thing?!

Edited January 24, 2010 by TrekkiELO

[Flojomojo]

Because many people have a short temper because of some of the whiny/bitchy "why isn't x on this? And it's too expensive!" comments in this thread. It's a quick promo for cereal boxes, not the savior of retro gaming. I think it's pretty neat for what it is.

[Retro Rogue]

What makes Flashbacks attractive to home brewers given that the system costs about the same as one home brew cart? Or are the profit margins comparable between Flashback and an individual cart?

 

 

The chance to have their game on an actual commercially produced Atari product?

[Godzilla]

this is awesome, the shipping is a bit offensive though, $15-$70 geez, someone pack some bricks into these things???

[TrekkiELO]

Because many people have a short temper because of some of the whiny/bitchy "why isn't x on this? And it's too expensive!" comments in this thread. It's a quick promo for cereal boxes, not the savior of retro gaming. I think it's pretty neat for what it is.

 

Me too, hence my preorder, but if there is an intent to stifle any questions, constructive criticism or debate, then Atari Age should close this forum because I'm not interested in a mutual ass kissing society!

Edited January 24, 2010 by TrekkiELO

[Retro Rogue]

Me too, hence my preorder, but if there is an intent to stifle any questions, constructive criticism or debate, then Atari Age should close this forum because I'm not interested in a mutual ass kissing society!

 

 

Because there's nothing constructive about it at this point. Same "Why wasn't game x on there?" and "It should have had x, y and z on it" and "It should have a cartridge port", etc. BS as 5 years ago. It was constructive the first few times someone asked those questions here. Now it's just whining, especially when we've answered everything already several times over just as we did back then.

Edited January 24, 2010 by wgungfu

[S1500]

Sad that Solaris is not on there. That is one of the best 2600 games IMO.

[ataridave]

Asteroids Deluxe and Space Duel are 2600 games that were made specifically for the Flashback 2 (which you should get, it's awesome). I think they're both hacks of the old VCS Asteroids ROM. As far as I know, Space Duel (the vector game from the arcade) has never been ported anywhere else, just emulated.

 

Not quite! 7800 Space Duel homebrew by PacManPlus :-

http://www.atariage.com/forums/topic/110466-7800-space-duel

 

Yep, that's what I was referring to, and I'm wondering if this is the same game-because I emulated it once, and it's awesome! As far as the games I mentioned, Road Runner was a port of an Atari arcade game, how could there be licensing issues with that? OK, so it's the name of a cartoon, but obviously Atari got the rights to that years ago, so what would the problem be with adding it into a Flashback console? And Solaris, Midnight Magic, and MotoRodeo are all, AFIK, Atari properties-none of those games came out on any other consoles.

 

I do agree with whoever said that the price is fine, because it's about the same as two new Atari 2600 joysticks, which is what you're getting along with 40 games.

Edited January 24, 2010 by dave4shmups