PFL Posted September 16, 2013 Share Posted September 16, 2013 Can the engine be used to create another game or do First Star have dibs on that too? It would be nice to see more maze type games. Have you guys played Rockman on the VIC 20? That game would be great on the 2600... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jentzsch Posted September 16, 2013 Share Posted September 16, 2013 The engine (any BD related stuff aside) is completely ours and can be used for other tile based games too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andromeda Stardust Posted September 16, 2013 Share Posted September 16, 2013 The engine (any BD related stuff aside) is completely ours and can be used for other tile based games too. Sobokan, anyone? That would be an easy game to pull off with the Boulderdash engine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LS_Dracon Posted September 16, 2013 Share Posted September 16, 2013 Bomberman 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoulBlazer Posted September 16, 2013 Share Posted September 16, 2013 I can assure you that I prefer it that way by far too. But circumstances do not always allow that. E.g. when you know that you have a time limited and quantity based license, then you to make a very careful calculation, how many games can be sold within that limited time. Else you risk ending with a lot of unsold stock which you still have pay license fees for. Boulder Dash took one whole year to sell out the 250 copies we agreed on, with more and more declining sale numbers. In the beginning we had limited the number of allowed copies per person to one, so that as many people as possible got their chance. After some months with still a solid number of unsold stock left, we eased that restriction to reduce our risk. In hindsight we may have been able to sell another 50 copies. Or maybe just 20. Which means our calculation was pretty good. So even with all hindsight we have now, I would opt for 250 copies again. A 2nd run of BD is extremely unlikely for those reasons. This time we would have to first sell the game to know the exact number. People would have to deposit the money somewhere in advance. And that number would have to be high enough to bother FSS and us going through the whole licensing process again. And even then it still would be unfair those who only paid the price based on the original limitations. So while I absolutely would love to see this happening and I usually never say never (see Boulder Dash development history), this time I have to. There never will be a 2nd run of Boulder Dash. Sorry. Makes sence. How about the posbility of a selling the ROM, so that those who stumble on this thread five years from now can still get the game without selling their first born on EBay? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jentzsch Posted September 16, 2013 Share Posted September 16, 2013 (edited) We are not allowed to distribute the ROM. And we still would have to go through almost the same process as described above. And how should we prevent duplicating the ROM, because that will definitely be a requirement. Edited September 16, 2013 by Thomas Jentzsch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Random Terrain Posted September 16, 2013 Share Posted September 16, 2013 We are not allowed to distribute the ROM. And we still would have to go through almost the same process as described above. And how should we prevent duplicating the ROM, because that will definitely be a requirement. Have a custom-built emulator that has the ROM code ingeniously hidden inside of it. The ROM code could be split into pieces or compressed then split into pieces and mixed in with the code that runs the emulator so it would be virtually impossible to extract the ROM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Gemintronic Posted September 16, 2013 Share Posted September 16, 2013 Have the next game run on the ARM in Harmony carts. Just use the Atari 2600 for input and for the display. Pirates can pirate all they want then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+stephena Posted September 16, 2013 Share Posted September 16, 2013 Have a custom-built emulator that has the ROM code ingeniously hidden inside of it. The ROM code could be split into pieces or compressed then split into pieces and mixed in with the code that runs the emulator so it would be virtually impossible to extract the ROM. Not based on Stella, at least not under its current licence and while I'm in control of it. I oppose DRM in all forms, and will not implement it in any software that I'm involved with. Besides, even that can be cracked, given enough time and desire to do so. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+stephena Posted September 16, 2013 Share Posted September 16, 2013 Have the next game run on the ARM in Harmony carts. Just use the Atari 2600 for input and for the display. Pirates can pirate all they want then. That wouldn't help, since Stella also emulates the ARM in the Harmony In any event, while I don't really like limited runs either, I can understand the reasoning here, and why the ROM will never be released based on the context of the licensing. We just need to accept that barring a re-release, this cart just won't be available to anyone else from this point on. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enthusi Posted September 16, 2013 Share Posted September 16, 2013 Oooooorr buy the game from someone. Or have bought the game in the first place and stop whining and be super-happy and glad that Thomas & Andrew went through so much pain to make it available at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mkiker2089 Posted September 16, 2013 Share Posted September 16, 2013 I'd like to see the engine used for something else without the licensing issues. We can say "buy the game" all day long but that doesn't really help. Telling someone to have bought the game in the first place only helps if they also happen to own a time machine. I don't have a sentimental attachement to the original so a good game with the same mechanics that can be reproduced without hassle would be a good compromise in my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enthusi Posted September 16, 2013 Share Posted September 16, 2013 Fair enough. I was just very surprised and a bit annoyed by the comments of few here that almost seem to aim to give them bad feelings for not releasing the ROMs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Random Terrain Posted September 16, 2013 Share Posted September 16, 2013 Not based on Stella, at least not under its current license and while I'm in control of it. I oppose DRM in all forms, and will not implement it in any software that I'm involved with. Besides, even that can be cracked, given enough time and desire to do so. That's why I said "custom-built emulator." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andromeda Stardust Posted September 17, 2013 Share Posted September 17, 2013 Bomberman Nevermind, screw Sobokan! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andromeda Stardust Posted September 17, 2013 Share Posted September 17, 2013 Have a custom-built emulator that has the ROM code ingeniously hidden inside of it. The ROM code could be split into pieces or compressed then split into pieces and mixed in with the code that runs the emulator so it would be virtually impossible to extract the ROM. The pieces will have to be decompressed, unencrypted, and reassembled in RAM, and the RAM memory cannot be protected from reads by 3rd Party software. How do you think people cracked encryption keys for BluRay movies, etc? Data has to be decrypted somewhere in order to process it, and RAM is usually where this takes place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Random Terrain Posted September 17, 2013 Share Posted September 17, 2013 The pieces will have to be decompressed, unencrypted, and reassembled in RAM, and the RAM memory cannot be protected from reads by 3rd Party software. How do you think people cracked encryption keys for BluRay movies, etc? Data has to be decrypted somewhere in order to process it, and RAM is usually where this takes place. There has to be a way to break it up so much and have it be so confusing that it wouldn't be worth the trouble. Rat nest that bitch so thoroughly that it would take someone 50 years to untangle it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LS_Dracon Posted September 17, 2013 Share Posted September 17, 2013 Nevermind, screw Sobokan! Not really, check this out : http://atariage.com/forums/topic/158712-mini-sokoban-2600/?hl=%2Bsokoban+%2B2600&do=findComment&comment=1965555 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian R. Posted September 17, 2013 Share Posted September 17, 2013 If this game came out in late 2011, I can say my life was in shambles then and I was in no position to even consider buying it. If I could buy it now, I might, if possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bomberpunk Posted September 17, 2013 Share Posted September 17, 2013 Bomberman YES. i said this months ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Andrew Davie Posted September 17, 2013 Share Posted September 17, 2013 People seem to forget there's a *perfectly good* demo version of Boulder Dash available totally free, and working perfectly on Stella. What's the issue here? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Random Terrain Posted September 17, 2013 Share Posted September 17, 2013 People seem to forget there's a *perfectly good* demo version of Boulder Dash available totally free, and working perfectly on Stella. What's the issue here? It's called WarGames Syndrome: youtu.be/n31fogbmQTg?t=2m24s Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian R. Posted September 17, 2013 Share Posted September 17, 2013 People seem to forget there's a *perfectly good* demo version of Boulder Dash available totally free, and working perfectly on Stella. What's the issue here? A demo is not a game. And for me, playing on an emulator isn't the same as playing a cart on the real hardware. If it was, I wouldn't have sought out and be keeping all the Atari systems I have. Using the hardware is a big part of the experience and fun for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RevEng Posted September 17, 2013 Share Posted September 17, 2013 Its an imperfect world, and we don't always get what we want. If there was a second run, someone else would show up a few years later complaining that they missed the second run. Negotiating license agreements with IP owners, producing carts, shipping, etc., for a fraction of minimum wage isn't fun. I don't blame Andrew and Thomas for not treading over old ground. Time to let go. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andromeda Stardust Posted September 17, 2013 Share Posted September 17, 2013 Time to let go.Agreed, arguing over bringing back Boulderdash is like beating a dead horse. Thread died a long time ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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