MAYAman Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 I'm asking because fantastic games are still being released for the Neo Geo over 2 decades after its release. The last released SCHMUP Fast Striker is astounding, I mean incredible looking. Why can't people program stuff like this for the Jag? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillyHW Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 The Jaguar is a 64-bit system. The Neo Geo is only a 24-bit system. Therefore the Jaguar should be able to do 64/24 = 8/3 = 2.67 times better. 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunstar Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 The Jaguars chip set totally blows away the Neo-Geo, there is no contest there, BUT, the Neo-Geo has the ability to have MASSIVE rom cartridges and streem that on-the-fly giving it an unprecedented virtual memory that the Jaguar can't compete with as far as I know (maybe someday if some sort of memory-banked cartridge is made). But then, Jaguar games never cost hundreds of dollars like Neo-Geo games, your basically paying the same as you would buying a complete new system with every game purchase on the Neo-Geo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willard Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 (edited) i think native and perhaps defender 2000 look alot better than fast striker. other neo geo shmups like blazing star look better than fast striker. much of fast strike is just the same cg background looping for an entire level (similar to blazing star stage 2) as far as i can tell. i think it was a decent idea but nothing that really amazes me. Edited July 5, 2012 by Willard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sh3-rg Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 I'll reply because I know a little about those who made it and I've answered similar questions to this in the past. Fast Striker is not just a Neo Geo home system game, it's also also a Dreamcast and iOS game and was made to be an MVS game - to be sold to and put in arcades. The developer, NG:DEV.TEAM, is a business - or as they like to put it "Commercial Independent Video Game Development Studio". They have been since 2008. They're not two blokes who have a fiddle with a bit of code on a wet Sunday afternoon if there's nothing much on TV - it's their job. They can afford to work like this because the systems they target have plenty of fans who are willing to pay for their stuff and they charge accordingly for it. They are not homebrewers. They are, however, a very talented team of professionals. So maybe if your question was "Why didn't Crescent Galaxy or any other commercial Jaguar shmup look and play like shmups on the Neo Geo?", your question would be closer to being a realistic, sensible one. Here, I'll put you down a few handy infos: Fast Striker cost approx. $500.00 for the regular version, $600.00 for the LE version. No idea how much they charged for the coin-munching MVS game for the arcades. The "programming" aspect isn't the one that matters, there's nothing particularly spectacular or revolutionary regarding the programming of FS as such. Neo Geo has a lot of fans, hardcore collector types who get hard at the thought of spunking hundreds on a single game. The Jaguar has maybe a handful of similar fans. Neo Geo has a cart spec that allows them to make games that are, like FS, around 50 times bigger than any existing Jaguar game on general release. There's no C in shmup. If you want a more technical reply, maybe you could go ask NG DEV why they don't port their stuff to the 64-bit Atari Jaguar Interactive Multimedia System. 9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunstar Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 i think native and perhaps defender 2000 look alot better than fast striker. other neo geo shmups like blazing star look better than fast striker. much of fast strike is just the same cg background looping for an entire level (similar to blazing star stage 2) as far as i can tell. i think it was a decent idea but nothing that really amazes me. Those jag games don't have the depth of field (parallax scrolling or similiar) that Fast Striker has, which really makes it look impressive. Neither do they have the level of animation on those huge end-level bosses that Fast Striker has. Could somthing like Fast Striker be done on the jag? Yes, if it were CD based to make up for lack of cartridge space, and if you had a huge development team with a huge budget. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ggn Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 I think that the answer to this topic can be summarized on this link. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sh3-rg Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 Yes, if it were CD based to make up for lack of cartridge space, and if you had a huge development team with a huge budget. You're right, an approximation of what you see in that game could me made if using the Jag CD... but then you're down to just the 2mb of memory and no romspace that you have access to in cart games - that's really cramped. So basically the same reply a lot of these "what if...?"s amount to. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+remowilliams Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 Yes, if it were CD based to make up for lack of cartridge space, and if you had a huge development team with a huge budget. You're right, an approximation of what you see in that game could me made if using the Jag CD... but then you're down to just the 2mb of memory and no romspace that you have access to in cart games - that's really cramped. So basically the same reply a lot of these "what if...?"s amount to. Exactly. If someone for instance really *really* wanted things like a terribly diluted version of Tomb Raider, or 'insert your imaginary game here' all they have to do is come up with shitloads of funds and find a developer. But let's just say $500 isn't going to do it... 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sh3-rg Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 But let's just say $500 isn't going to do it... Why did I just get the urge to film that line, capture it & stick it on youtube at 10-whole-80p? Am I doing it right...? 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunstar Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 I think that the answer to this topic can be summarized on this link. What IS the fascination with this Nyancat crap? It sucked the first time I ever saw it, it sucked as demos on classic 8-bit computers, it sucks in Degz as an easter egg, and it sucks here. Actually, I never thought something could suck and blow at the same time, but nyancat does! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sh3-rg Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 It's meant to. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Gemintronic Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 NEO GEO was all about large sprites and scaling. Can't the Jag do the same with more colors? Also, sprite/tile compression shouldn't be a problem with this much horsepower. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunstar Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 It's meant to. Still, there's got to be a limit. I can't even think of a correlation to point too of something being overdone to the point of this obsurdity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Stephen Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 But let's just say $500 isn't going to do it... Why did I just get the urge to film that line, capture it & stick it on youtube at 10-whole-80p? Am I doing it right...? No - you don't quite have the aspect ratio stretched enough 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sh3-rg Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 NEO GEO was all about large sprites and scaling. Large sprite it stored in massive carts. Massive carts aren't doable on the Jaguar as it stands. Can't the Jag do the same with more colors? It can have large sprites. it can have more colours. Also, sprite/tile compression shouldn't be a problem with this much horsepower. Compression needs decompression. If this is real-time you've got one hand tied behind your back before you try to get anywhere. if it's decompressed before you play a level or whatever - where are you going to store it? In the 2mb of Jaguar memory that the rest of your game is running in... oh yes, that's a hand tied behind your back If you're referring to lossy image storage, might as well tie your eyes behind your back. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sh3-rg Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 Still, there's got to be a limit. I can't even think of a correlation to point too of something being overdone to the point of this obsurdity. I suppose that's the thing with memes that makes them what they are... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willard Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 i think native and perhaps defender 2000 look alot better than fast striker. other neo geo shmups like blazing star look better than fast striker. much of fast strike is just the same cg background looping for an entire level (similar to blazing star stage 2) as far as i can tell. i think it was a decent idea but nothing that really amazes me. Those jag games don't have the depth of field (parallax scrolling or similiar) that Fast Striker has, which really makes it look impressive. Neither do they have the level of animation on those huge end-level bosses that Fast Striker has. Could somthing like Fast Striker be done on the jag? Yes, if it were CD based to make up for lack of cartridge space, and if you had a huge development team with a huge budget. Fast striker has about 1/1000 the number of colors as d2k and about 1/20 the speed without as many bg art assets. D2k also has some decent physics and a mode 7 effect. It's also about 5-6 layers of scrolling (not counting the starfield) with some large enemies like the camel and large objects like the falling tombstones. Fast striker really doesn't impress me but that's just me. It's a looping bland grey cg background. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAYAman Posted July 5, 2012 Author Share Posted July 5, 2012 (edited) Listen, if I wanted people to be snarky I'd be an asshole. I wasn't so lets not get crazy here. I asked a simiple question. I am totally aware of who the dev team is for striker. I'm just putting out a question to the community. when did this place become NeoGaf? Please people get a grip. For those of you who aren't uptight and take this as life or death, thanks for the responses. Its conversation, this is a message board. Edited July 5, 2012 by MAYAman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sh3-rg Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 Fast striker has about 1/1000 the number of colors as d2 Hmm.. but they're Minter colours and about 1/20 the speed They're both 60fps. Just 'cause D2k scrolls the backdrops at huge jumps every frame doesn't mean it's doing anything more impressive. D2k also has some decent physics and a mode 7 effect. It's also about 5-6 layers of scrolling (not counting the starfield) with some large enemies like the camel and large objects like the falling tombstones. Fast striker really doesn't impress me but that's just me. It's a looping bland grey cg background. I don't know if I'm remembering correctly, but I think they put a fairly impressive game over the top of that as well... minor point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoulBlazer Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 I suspose they could have released a memory cart for the Jaq if it had been more successfull, much as they did with with the Saturn and the N64. That would have allowed for larger games. But yeah, the Neo Geo is a very weird system in that it's a portable arcade with the games costing as much as one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Stephen Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 Yeah - anything's possible with bank switching. I thought the 2MB overall system RAM in the Jag would be a problem until I read how little RAM the NeoGeo actually had. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunstar Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 i think native and perhaps defender 2000 look alot better than fast striker. other neo geo shmups like blazing star look better than fast striker. much of fast strike is just the same cg background looping for an entire level (similar to blazing star stage 2) as far as i can tell. i think it was a decent idea but nothing that really amazes me. Those jag games don't have the depth of field (parallax scrolling or similiar) that Fast Striker has, which really makes it look impressive. Neither do they have the level of animation on those huge end-level bosses that Fast Striker has. Could somthing like Fast Striker be done on the jag? Yes, if it were CD based to make up for lack of cartridge space, and if you had a huge development team with a huge budget. Fast striker has about 1/1000 the number of colors as d2k and about 1/20 the speed without as many bg art assets. D2k also has some decent physics and a mode 7 effect. It's also about 5-6 layers of scrolling (not counting the starfield) with some large enemies like the camel and large objects like the falling tombstones. Fast striker really doesn't impress me but that's just me. It's a looping bland grey cg background. Relax willard, I'm not attempting to discount D2K or Native, they are more impressive in their own ways, though the large inanimant tombstones aren't impressive, they are a lot better in many ways. But with D2K you can't see all that parallax scrolling much since the playfield scrolls up and down so much; I mean really, how often do you get to see all the cool graphics down at ground level when most of the action happens way up above? And Native is amazing, for what is there, but there just isn't much there and the programmers abandoned it becuase adding sound and music to it would have ruined the frame rate. not that the Jag can't handle it, but their programming wasn't optimised enough and they didn't want to re-write it all for a failing system, so it was abandoned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Austin Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 Listen, if I wanted people to be snarky I'd be an asshole. I wasn't so lets not get crazy here. I asked a simiple question. I am totally aware of who the dev team is for striker. I'm just putting out a question to the community. when did this place become NeoGaf? Please people get a grip. For those of you who aren't uptight and take this as life or death, thanks for the responses. Its conversation, this is a message board. Riiiggggghhht.. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zerosquare Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 <p> Yeah - anything's possible with bank switching. I thought the 2MB overall system RAM in the Jag would be a problem until I read how little RAM the NeoGeo actually had.The Neo Geo doesn't need much RAM, because it can address a huge ROM space with no bankswitching ; also, IIRC, it's got at least two independent busses running in parallel. There's no point in caching your graphics in RAM if the video system can simply fetch them from ROM in real time "for free".The Jaguar cannot do that. Any bank switching system would have to be fast enough to cope with the Object Processor, and it would still use bandwidth from the single, common bus. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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