Fletch Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 A buddy of mine pulled his C-64 out of storage and wanted me to see if I could get it running so he could show his kid. Hooked it up and nothing. Reseated all of the chips, tried a different PSU and still nada. So I found one on shop goodwill.com for a decent price. That one actually turned on but had nothing but funky characters all over the display. Tried to reseat all of those chips to no avail as well. So I saw a local dude selling one on Craigslist. Tried that one and that one doesn't work either. Thankfully the guy refunded my cash. Am I just really unlucky, or do they suck that bad? I've had an occasional issue with an Atari, but nothing like this. Pete Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/204153-is-it-just-me-or-are-commodore-64s-built-like-crap/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atari_Bill Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 Can't say I agree. I've had mine since I bought it new in the 80's. Works like a champ. Can't even begin to tell you the hours I've logged on that machine. 1 Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/204153-is-it-just-me-or-are-commodore-64s-built-like-crap/#findComment-2619764 Share on other sites More sharing options...
+save2600 Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 Sounds like extremely bad luck to me. Hell, I've pulled C64's out of dumpsters in rainy days and they've still worked. Not much of an exaggeration, but yeah... good thing they're a dime a dozen! BTW: fuse still good in the ones that did nothing? Bridge rectifier might need to be changed is all. Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/204153-is-it-just-me-or-are-commodore-64s-built-like-crap/#findComment-2619766 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fletch Posted October 17, 2012 Author Share Posted October 17, 2012 (edited) Fuses were fine. Can't really say they did nothing. The screen would change from dark to light on one of them. The other made odd popping sounds whilst turning off and on. Just seems odd I am 0-3 Edited October 17, 2012 by Fletch Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/204153-is-it-just-me-or-are-commodore-64s-built-like-crap/#findComment-2619767 Share on other sites More sharing options...
+save2600 Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 The other made odd popping sounds whilst turning off and on. Ahh... so at least some sign of life then. Dead cockroaches exploding like popcorn as the circuitry warms up. http://www.faime.demon.co.uk/retro/cbm.html 2 Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/204153-is-it-just-me-or-are-commodore-64s-built-like-crap/#findComment-2619771 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fletch Posted October 17, 2012 Author Share Posted October 17, 2012 Ahh... so at least some sign of life then. Dead cockroaches exploding like popcorn as the circuitry warms up. That could have been a possibility, but the motherboards were actually all very clean. One looked damn near brand new. Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/204153-is-it-just-me-or-are-commodore-64s-built-like-crap/#findComment-2619773 Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmetal88 Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 Wow, yeah, I'd say you're unlucky. I got both a Commodore 64 and an SX-64 for free off Craigslist, both of which had been sitting outside waiting for the dump prior to my response to the ad (and I could tell it had rained during that time, as the Commodore 64 was in the box, and the box had a lot of water damage, and the SX-64 had some dirt caked on it). Both of them worked awesomely well the very first time I plugged them in, and both of them are still working. By contrast, a TI-99/4a I got in the same lot had a bunch of bad RAM that I had to replace before it would work properly. Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/204153-is-it-just-me-or-are-commodore-64s-built-like-crap/#findComment-2619782 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rybags Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 Screen garbage + non responsive is probably bad PLA chip. Early C64 are similar build philosophy to the XE and 7800, ie cheapo. But C64 keyboard has a better feel than the XE, XE at least has proper shielding plates. C64 motherboard looks better constructed, at least the early ones. Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/204153-is-it-just-me-or-are-commodore-64s-built-like-crap/#findComment-2619786 Share on other sites More sharing options...
doctorclu Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 SX-64 I found and have been restoring had soda spilled in it. Short of that, as much as I want to trash Commodore out of Atari tradition the truth is, the C=64 and Vic 20s were pretty solid. I think later 80s computers like the C128 and Atari XEs (at least the 65) were built like crap. Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/204153-is-it-just-me-or-are-commodore-64s-built-like-crap/#findComment-2619810 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fletch Posted October 17, 2012 Author Share Posted October 17, 2012 Apparently I just have bad luck. Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/204153-is-it-just-me-or-are-commodore-64s-built-like-crap/#findComment-2619813 Share on other sites More sharing options...
RickR Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 No you haven't had bad luck. Your experience is the same as mine. I must have bought 5 C-64's until I found one that worked perfectly. And I also have friends that pulled theirs out of the attic and they simply no longer work. 1 Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/204153-is-it-just-me-or-are-commodore-64s-built-like-crap/#findComment-2619823 Share on other sites More sharing options...
papa_november Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 (edited) Breadbin C64: cardboard RF shield, other horrors, shitty construction, crumbly case C64C: Haven't seen one die on me yet, comparatively well-built C128: Also well-built, amazingly reliable given what a rube goldberg contraption of a computer it is and who made it The answer: get a C64C or C128 if at all possible. The drives are another problem though. 1541s tend to develop internal power supply problems (I think I've had to replace blown rectifiers on every one I've had), and 1541-IIs are somewhat fragile. The 1571s I've handled tended to be fairly rugged. I haven't really dealt with an XE, but I imagine that even the crumbliest ones are somewhere around the C128 in terms of build quality. Power switches tend to suck on all platforms, whether they're Commodore or Atari. They just seize up and break, and it's annoying as all hell. Especially if the machine has other problems. Edited October 17, 2012 by papa_november Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/204153-is-it-just-me-or-are-commodore-64s-built-like-crap/#findComment-2619858 Share on other sites More sharing options...
+wood_jl Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 (edited) I can't believe so many people (many of whom know MUCH MORE about C64 than I) haven't stated the POWER SUPPLY PROBLEM. I had a bad "ribbed" C64 power supply take out 2 C64s and a VIC-20. Now I run aftermarket power supplies, or I'd run a C128 power supply, alternatively. I'm not here to defend C= computers or build, but you can just keep blowing computers with the same bad power supply, kind of like a bad Atari 800XL "the ingot" power supply can be used to damage more than 1 computer. I'd say the C64 is NOT as reliable as the Atari 8-bit computers OVERALL, but they're not SO BAD that every one you come across is garbage. However, I know that one bad power supply will turn good computers into garbage, perhaps unbeknownst to the user. I don't trust A SINGLE C64 power supply anymore, that's in the wild. Edited October 17, 2012 by wood_jl 1 Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/204153-is-it-just-me-or-are-commodore-64s-built-like-crap/#findComment-2619861 Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenjennings Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 The 64 wasn't working very well when it was new. In high school in the 80s our geek clique had more people with C64s than any of the better, more expensive computers (Apples, Ataris, etc.) The running joke was whose turn it was to have their C64 in the shop that week. The only things that seemed to be engineered well were the monitors -- probably to compensate for the noisy excuse for video coming out of the C64. A commodore monitor on an Atari 800 was marvelous. The C128 was put together much better than the 64. Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/204153-is-it-just-me-or-are-commodore-64s-built-like-crap/#findComment-2619871 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rybags Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 C64 power supplies can vary depending on country and it seems they used a fair few types. I've seen probably at least 4 or 5 and own an epoxy ribbed beige one + a steel plate one. I don't think C64 were plagued by the bad Ram problem like the XEs although they seem to be more likely for one of the custom chips to just die and take down the whole machine. C64 also uses 2 different voltages which becomes a whole extra point of failure and cops extra heat from Sid - although SID can die and the rest of the machine should still operate normally. Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/204153-is-it-just-me-or-are-commodore-64s-built-like-crap/#findComment-2619881 Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Larry Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 FWIW, my 64's have worked good except for losing a SID in one of them. But I feel the same way about the power supplies -- "untrustworthy at best!" OTOH, who ever expected any of the 8-bit machines would still be chugging along after 30 years. I think the warranty may have expired... -Larry Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/204153-is-it-just-me-or-are-commodore-64s-built-like-crap/#findComment-2620064 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metal Jesus Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 As a kid, I burned through two power supplies, which was incredibly annoying because I lived on Whidbey Island where nobody had replacements! The breadbox computer itself took a lot of abuse though, and kept on rockin... Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/204153-is-it-just-me-or-are-commodore-64s-built-like-crap/#findComment-2620071 Share on other sites More sharing options...
+save2600 Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 For the people who've had back luck with power supplies (personally, I've never had one go bad on me, knock on wood - but I've seen maybe two or three throughout the years), I wonder how they're being kept? I mean, were they sitting on plush carpeting where airflow was stifled? It's like anything that gets warm... Intellivision, modern laptops, etc., want to keep those things on solid flat surfaces. No doubt though that they and the computers themselves, were built on the cheap to keep costs down. Amazing when you think about how well these things have held up really. Especially considering how much use and abuse they typically saw. People loved their Commies! Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/204153-is-it-just-me-or-are-commodore-64s-built-like-crap/#findComment-2620077 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emehr Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 I found a Commodore 64 in a thrift store about four years ago and I have yet to know if it works. I have three power supplies and none of them work. Is there a way I can rig my own? Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/204153-is-it-just-me-or-are-commodore-64s-built-like-crap/#findComment-2620079 Share on other sites More sharing options...
FastRobPlus Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 The C64 had a very high failure rate at its introduction. I’ve heard 20-30% from a few sources, mostly reports in old magazines that would have had gotten it from insiders or possibly from a look at C= earnings reports. A quick web search shows conflicting numbers, but this link is typical: http://www.omegacron...c64/history.htm As their manufacturing and supply chain matured, they became more and more reliable. This is pretty common for consumer electronics, but Commodore was one of the first companies to really become truly aggressive about cost reduction in the way we are used to seeing today with consumer devices. The most famous example of this was the Coleco Adam, which was estimated at a higher than 30% failure rate. Memory of Adam's failure rate has faded along with memory of the Adam in general, and most will now say that the original Xbox 360 design is the most famous of the "high failure rate" game systems. 1 Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/204153-is-it-just-me-or-are-commodore-64s-built-like-crap/#findComment-2620082 Share on other sites More sharing options...
+FujiSkunk Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 I came to say what FastRobPlus has already said. C-64's were notorious for failing out of the box, and those that didn't fail out of the box often got taken out by the power supply. C-64's still around today however tend to last, at least in my experience. Of the C-64's I've had that worked when I got them, only two later went south, and one of those was rescued with specific part replacements (a new video chip, to be specific). Of course you still have to watch out for those power supplies... Breadbin C64: cardboard RF shield, other horrors, shitty construction, crumbly case Note entirely accurate. The "original" C-64 design was actually any number of different designs. Some had a cardboard RF shield. Some had a metal shield. Some had a smaller shield that only covered the video hardware. Some had socketed chips. Others had soldered chips. Some had a combination of both. I haven't tied failure rates to specific designs, but suffice it to say some C-64's had better internal construction than others. 1 Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/204153-is-it-just-me-or-are-commodore-64s-built-like-crap/#findComment-2620199 Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtariLeaf Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 The couple that I found recently were both DOA, one was the original breadbox the other was the new model 64C. Tried two different PSU's so unless they're both dead the machines themselves were. Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/204153-is-it-just-me-or-are-commodore-64s-built-like-crap/#findComment-2620222 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fletch Posted October 17, 2012 Author Share Posted October 17, 2012 Well, I'm just going to shelf looking for a working one for now. I was just trying to help a friend. I have no personal connection with the C-64 so unless a working one falls in my lap I'm no longer actively seeking. Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/204153-is-it-just-me-or-are-commodore-64s-built-like-crap/#findComment-2620273 Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Gemintronic Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 If you want new hardware reliability then you gotta buy new hardware. http://www.syntiac.com/chameleon.html 1 Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/204153-is-it-just-me-or-are-commodore-64s-built-like-crap/#findComment-2620276 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fox-1 / mnx Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 If you want new hardware reliability then you gotta buy new hardware. http://www.syntiac.com/chameleon.html Which isn't of much use if you don't have a working C64... Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/204153-is-it-just-me-or-are-commodore-64s-built-like-crap/#findComment-2620326 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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