Stonix

[+cmart604]

Ooh! A re-release of Utopia, with improved game-play to make it more responsive! I'll program that!

 

dZ.

 

Fixed that for you.

[Rev]

 

 

Ooh! A re-release of Utopia, with improved game-play to make it more responsive! I'm in for that!

 

dZ.

 

Dz, i take that as a personal insult. I was using utopia as a metaphor, not suggesting that a new game be made. Starting rumors like this is likely to rear apart the already fragile intellivision community. This madness must stop, I draw the line here.

 

(I bet you don't know if I am serious or joking)

[Fushek]

No need to *shrug* Joe. We do not believe in repackaging games just to make a buck. If Stonix was to release again, it would be worth buying.

 

For the collectors out there, is there really a need to produce more games when the price is $160 or less? If so, why is not everyone asking to have more Spikers produced? The box is ready to go. *shrug*

 

Do you collectors really like seeing a game produced in multiple packaging variations but no change to the game itself (except maybe for a title screen)?

 

The collecting scene has grown since this (and other) games were originally produced. There's a lot of people (such as myself) that would love to own it, but I'm not willing to pay $160 to get it. Put it out there again for 50, 60 or 70 and I'd likely do it ...

 

If you can produce Spikers, by all means, proceed.

 

I do not buy variations ... only concerned about owning 1 copy of a game.

[+thegoldenband]

For the collectors out there, is there really a need to produce more games when the price is $160 or less? If so, why is not everyone asking to have more Spikers produced? The box is ready to go. *shrug*

 

There are definitely people who weren't around for the first release, and would love to own a copy of Stonix and be able to play it on real hardware. So I don't know if it's a collector's issue so much as a gamer's issue -- especially since the Cuttle Cart 3 is sold out.

 

Spiker is hard to compare, since it's an officially released game. Homebrews (and prototype reproductions) play by somewhat different rules from official releases.

 

Do you collectors really like seeing a game produced in multiple packaging variations but no change to the game itself (except maybe for a title screen)?

 

It depends. When a limited-edition homebrew is reissued, people often like to have a way of distinguishing the original from the re-release. Personally, it's not an issue for me, but if the packaging is changed on the re-release, that keeps people from complaining that their investment has been undermined (though fortunately that doesn't seem to happen much with the Intellivision crowd).

 

I also don't really think Stonix needs to be "improved", myself -- it's a tough but fair game, and I think that's exactly the way Arnauld meant it to be! I actually wouldn't want to see a slightly tweaked re-release, because then you start getting into the clutter of multiple versions of the same game, and that's when our girlfriends/fiancées/wives start looking at us and going "What the hell?"

 

But I say that as a Stonix owner, and I'm sure anyone who doesn't have the game would be glad to get it in whatever form.

 

BTW a massively-updated version would be a different story, e.g. Joe's plans for a Super Pro Space Patrol, or the Intellivoice support in the Same Game & Robots re-release. A Stonix 2 with new weapons and playfields, but that also included the original game in its entirety, would be welcome!

[Games For Your Intellivision]

"What is it about intellivision homebrews that make them sell for so much after they are sold out? Are other systems like this? "

 

This is an easy to answer question. The reason is because demand outweighs supply.

 

Demand for D2K Arcade has not waned, and there are more copies of it out there than Stonix.

 

Minehunter never got more than 150 copies out there. I think the people who have my version would agree that it is packaged better than the Intelligentvision version, is cheaper than Intelligentvision's version, (currently) and is satisfying a demand.

 

I personally don't want to be involved in making unauthorized copies of Spiker. Don't think for a moment that Intellivision Productions isn't aware of what is going on.

 

I don't agree with 'limited' releases in principle, but if the people who did Stonix want to have copies of it sell for big bucks on Ebay, who am I to argue?

 

I could do an excellent version with a gatefold box and really nice sticker and overlays.

 

It needs to have an easier mode in my opinion. Nothing wrong with adding the option of playing with a larger paddle.

[TrekMD]

I could do an excellent version with a gatefold box and really nice sticker and overlays.

 

It needs to have an easier mode in my opinion. Nothing wrong with adding the option of playing with a larger paddle.

 

So, what would be involved in doing this? Is it difficult to get permission?

[+DZ-Jay]

 

Dz, i take that as a personal insult. I was using utopia as a metaphor, not suggesting that a new game be made. Starting rumors like this is likely to rear apart the already fragile intellivision community. This madness must stop, I draw the line here.

 

(I bet you don't know if I am serious or joking)

 

OMG! It's like I posted it myself!

[Games For Your Intellivision]

"So, what would be involved in doing this? Is it difficult to get permission?"

 

Arnauld wrote it, and Dave (he posted in this thread) did the levels. If Dave wanted to do it again, he has the ability. However, I could do a great gatefold version.

 

Obviously, they think 250 copies is 'enough'. I disagree, but it isn't up to me.

[Rev]

 

 

OMG! It's like I posted it myself!

 

I knew you would get it dz! You passed the test.

[intvnut]

No need to *shrug* Joe. We do not believe in repackaging games just to make a buck. If Stonix was to release again, it would be worth buying.

 

I was only shrugging, since Arnauld didn't really tell me any details of the arrangement, and David hasn't shared any of his plans with me, so I really have no idea how likely a future release of Stonix will be. That's all. I was never suggesting someone distribute a game they have no rights to in order to make a buck.

[+DZ-Jay]

 

I knew you would get it dz! You passed the test.

 

It took me a while, but I've learned my lessons. I'm just a slow learner .. LOL!

[+cmart604]

Could a compromise be reached between all parties where a new version of this was released? Me thinks that there appears to be an appetite amongst interested buyers and it sounds like there may be a couple of options for producing it. Can't we all just get along?

(Especially Rev and DZ, I hate it when they're at each others throats)

[+DZ-Jay]

Could a compromise be reached between all parties where a new version of this was released? Me thinks that there appears to be an appetite amongst interested buyers and it sounds like there may be a couple of options for producing it. Can't we all just get along?

(Especially Rev and DZ, I hate it when they're at each others throats)

 

A copy of Stonix would go a long way to pacify both of us... I'm just saying...

[Dryfter]

Could a compromise be reached between all parties where a new version of this was released? Me thinks that there appears to be an appetite amongst interested buyers and it sounds like there may be a couple of options for producing it. Can't we all just get along?

(Especially Rev and DZ, I hate it when they're at each others throats)

 

Don't you have enough variants??? haha

 

Sorry gonna be a party pooper here.

 

I'd rather see time and effort go into new original releases (like Rick Dynamite). This is coming from someone that already has Stonix though, so I'm extremely biased I guess. I'd rather spend my money on games I don't already have. Let's face it, the new releases for the Intellivision are not cheap. I understand there's a TON of work going into it and the quality is as good, if not better, than the original 125 for the system. I love the quality of all the games. Let me make that clear, I'm NOT complaining about any of that.

 

I just want to buy different games. The collector in me has a hard time not buying the newer releases, the investor in me see the upside as well. But the gamer in me doesn't really care about a re-release of a game. The investor in me also doesn't want a re-release because it will devalue the current one I own (just being honest). I totally understand why some people want a re-release.

 

The funny thing with this is, Minehunter was just re-released, yes? I know the website already lists it as "Sold out". How many of the Elektronite versions were made, and how many were bought by people that already have the IntelligentVision version? <raises hand> I'm sure a lot of them went to collectors who already have the first version.

 

Collectors are collectors...we...collect (and play sometimes).

 

Here's my suggestion/request. If it is re-released, make it EXACTLY the same as the initial 250, box, manual, cart, label. I'm sure David has all that stuff stored some where. That way the collectors don't feel obligated to buy another copy and the people without them can get them to add to their collection. I know that still devalues the initial 250, but at least I save myself the $60-$70 (with shipping) on getting another copy of a game I have already.

 

wow, I type way more than I planned.

 

Hope this doeesn't make me sound like a jerk. Just trying to keep everyone happy (which never works)

 

Edit: (and yes, I know the original 250 were numbered), so were the first 100 of SG&R but there were more than that made, I think my sticker says something like "#124 of 100")

Edited October 22, 2012 by Dryfter

[+DZ-Jay]

 

Don't you have enough variants??? haha

 

Sorry gonna be a party pooper here.

 

I'd rather see time and effort go into new original releases (like Rick Dynamite). This is coming from someone that already has Stonix though, so I'm extremely biased I guess. I'd rather spend my money on games I don't already have. Let's face it, the new releases for the Intellivision are not cheap. I understand there's a TON of work going into it and the quality is as good, if not better, than the original 125 for the system. I love the quality of all the games. Let me make that clear, I'm NOT complaining about any of that.

 

I just want to buy different games. The collector in me has a hard time not buying the newer releases, the investor in me see the upside as well. But the gamer in me doesn't really care about a re-release of a game. The investor in me also doesn't want a re-release because it will devalue the current one I own (just being honest). I totally understand why some people want a re-release.

 

The funny thing with this is, Minehunter was just re-released, yes? I know the website already lists it as "Sold out". How many of the Elektronite versions were made, and how many were bought by people that already have the IntelligentVision version? <raises hand> I'm sure a lot of them went to collectors who already have the first version.

 

Collectors are collectors...we...collect (and play sometimes).

 

Here's my suggestion/request. If it is re-released, make it EXACTLY the same as the initial 250, box, manual, cart, label. I'm sure David has all that stuff stored some where. That way the collectors don't feel obligated to buy another copy and the people without them can get them to add to their collection. I know that still devalues the initial 250, but at least I save myself the $60-$70 (with shipping) on getting another copy of a game I have already.

 

wow, I type way more than I planned.

 

Hope this doeesn't make me sound like a jerk. Just trying to keep everyone happy (which never works)

 

Edit: (and yes, I know the original 250 were numbered), so were the first 100 of SG&R but there were more than that made, I think my sticker says something like "#124 of 100")

 

Amen! I concur. As a gamer, pseudo-collector-second-class, and occasional game programmer, I would prefer that re-releases were the same as old releases, just to satisfy the demand of those who missed out; and new releases to be brand new titles.

 

dZ.

[Rev]

A re-release of stonix woe never in a million years be the same as the original. The PCB would be different. The Mattel cart would be the same but the sticker label would most likely be different. The box could and never woe be the same. The original stonix box was....ok I will say it.......kind of below today's standards. Overlays and manual? Impossible to duplicate exactly. A new box may look the same, as in design and color. But it would be easily spotted. So, if arnauld and David aver decided to do it, I would imagine a new box design and some gameplay improvements. It can't be Any other way.

 

 

Yes, a certain amount of hardcore collectors would buy another copy or two. But that is our choice. No one is for forcing anyone to own every game. But the game maker can be sure going in that right off he bat he can sell a hundred or two to just the collectors hat already own it. Hen even more to the people that missed out. So, in all liklyhood it would be a good little venture making another run. But I don't know the real behind the scene numbers. I'm just guessing.

 

Either way, I have a copy, so screw the rest of ya! Lololol

 

Just kidding guys!

[Games For Your Intellivision]

I agree Rev. I never made Minehunter for the people who already have it. I made it for the people who want to buy it at a reasonable price.

 

If the people who bought the original Minehunter feel the need to purchase my version, I thank them for the business. I don't understand their need to have every version of a game out there, but since they aren't the people I am making the game for, I really am not going to stop doing it . If enough copies of the game were made to begin with, there would be no market for my version now, would there be?

 

I actually had someone email me, and tell me that I was 'doing the Intellivision community a dis-service' by re-releasing Minehunter.........as in the words of the late 'Jock McBile' from the Royal Canadian Air Farce.....'get stuffed!'

[nukeshed]

in the words of the late 'Jock McBile' from the Royal Canadian Air Farce.....'get stuffed!'

 

I Love You.

 

Just saying.

[Utopia]

A re-release of stonix woe never in a million years be the same as the original. The PCB would be different. The Mattel cart would be the same but the sticker label would most likely be different. The box could and never woe be the same. The original stonix box was....ok I will say it.......kind of below today's standards. Overlays and manual? Impossible to duplicate exactly. A new box may look the same, as in design and color. But it would be easily spotted. So, if arnauld and David aver decided to do it, I would imagine a new box design and some gameplay improvements. It can't be Any other way.

 

 

Yes, a certain amount of hardcore collectors would buy another copy or two. But that is our choice. No one is for forcing anyone to own every game. But the game maker can be sure going in that right off he bat he can sell a hundred or two to just the collectors hat already own it. Hen even more to the people that missed out. So, in all liklyhood it would be a good little venture making another run. But I don't know the real behind the scene numbers. I'm just guessing.

 

Either way, I have a copy, so screw the rest of ya! Lololol

 

Just kidding guys!

Yes,

A new release would have to be just that.. "a new release" and there would be no problem with the box, cartridge, overlays and book being a bit different.

We would all know that it is not the original version and therefore not devalue it.

 

So many comments above favour a release of Stonix in one form or another and this would let many collectors get hold of a copy of this great game for the first time.

[Dryfter]

I agree Rev. I never made Minehunter for the people who already have it. I made it for the people who want to buy it at a reasonable price.

 

If the people who bought the original Minehunter feel the need to purchase my version, I thank them for the business. I don't understand their need to have every version of a game out there, but since they aren't the people I am making the game for, I really am not going to stop doing it . If enough copies of the game were made to begin with, there would be no market for my version now, would there be?

 

I actually had someone email me, and tell me that I was 'doing the Intellivision community a dis-service' by re-releasing Minehunter.........as in the words of the late 'Jock McBile' from the Royal Canadian Air Farce.....'get stuffed!'

 

You're not doing the community a dis-service by re-releasing the game, but you are devaluing the game for the people who happened to buy the game when it was originally released. Not trying to be mean, just stating the facts.

 

I realize that the originals will still hold some value as they were the first release, but a second release does take away a certain number of potential buyers who would have paid for the copies which were already released. And before you call me greedy for making that statement, I didn't make any money from selling either release and I did buy both versions.

 

In the end it's ALWAYS about money, that's why you received the email that you did. (and no, I didn't send it...haha)

 

I also think it's a bit short sighted to say that we (the people that already owned the first release) aren't the people you're making the game for. You're making it for anyone that will buy it, no? The original releases of Stonix and Minehunter took a long time to sell (I know the guys that sold them) so at that time, there were plenty of copies. They were released a long time ago, so it's inconceivable to think those guys would still be making them. I'd guess that in 10 years, you probably won't want to make more of them either (I could be wrong though) and there will be a market for both releases.

 

Again, it's always about money...and there's nothing wrong with that.

 

I like stirring the soup...haha

[sqoon]

Do you collectors really like seeing a game produced in multiple packaging variations but no change to the game itself (except maybe for a title screen)?

 

It's fine by me.

[+cmart604]

I Love You.

 

Just saying.

 

LOL! By the way, we've unexplicably dropped the 'g' at the end of "saying". INTV slang style.

[+JasonlikesINTV]

I have had mixed feelings about the whole situation, but after much thought, here's my 2 cents:

 

Devaluation must be considered in the context of price paid for and price sold for. Consider this, I purchased Rocky & Bullwinkle for $50. Recently they have been selling for >$200 (unless you're Intellivision Dude). I could probably sell mine for $200, but I don't want to. If more are released that are identical to the original, the price drops back down to $50. Has my investment been devalued? Not really because my net difference is flat. Even if the market was over-saturated and the value dropped to $25, it's still kinda reasonable. What do you think happens to your $60 Call of Duty game? ET for Atari 2600? For those who miss out and choose to pay the $200 for their copy, they aren't really making an investment as much as they are paying a latecomers tax. At $200 you have considerably more financial risk that if you bought at $50, but that's on you. All that being said, I'm all for the release of more copies. If the newer version is significantly different/improved, it doesn't hurt "value" of the original release and collectors will gladly buy the newer version too....probably at the all time low price of $50. But even if the release is pretty much similar to the original, like Rev said, it will never be exact. For numbered games, you just continue the numbering, so if hardcore collector latecomers really want their precious variations, they will pay the premium for the original low numbered games, but still have the option for a well-priced brand new higher-numbered game, which will likely have improved overlays and an improved box. Latecomers like me, who missed the original Stonix, will likely buy the newer cheaper one and patiently watch for an original, but probably not spend over $100 for one. I would consider any future release of Stonix to be a service to the Intellivision community because anytime you can improve the availability of games to the people who love this platform, it's a good thing!

 

Final thought.....Spiker. Say what you will, but buying a boxed copy for $1500 is like buying gold at $1500/oz. It may go up, it may go down. The level of risk is your decision, but bubbles exist and no one can predict the future. Roll the dice or don't.

[Dryfter]

I have had mixed feelings about the whole situation, but after much thought, here's my 2 cents:

 

Devaluation must be considered in the context of price paid for and price sold for. Consider this, I purchased Rocky & Bullwinkle for $50. Recently they have been selling for >$200 (unless you're Intellivision Dude). I could probably sell mine for $200, but I don't want to. If more are released that are identical to the original, the price drops back down to $50. Has my investment been devalued? Not really because my net difference is flat. Even if the market was over-saturated and the value dropped to $25, it's still kinda reasonable.

 

The investment in your situation has absolutely devalued, infact it's the definition of it . The R&B example you give is easy to quantify because we know the current value of something "thanks" to ebay. You can sell the game for $200 (or whatever) which is more than the value you've put into it. If something happens to change the market value of that price, to make it lower, it is now devalued and becomes worth less (not worthless though ) than it's currently worth. It's not dependent on if you've sold it or not...it has a value whether you sell it or not. In the case of Minehunter, the value of the game lowers because there's less demand for it due to the newer release.

 

Again, I'm not complaining either way, just stating what's happened (or happening).

 

You may consider it a service that a newer version is released, but again, it doesn't change that fact that it will lower the value of the originals. The people that were lucky enough (and yes, it's luck) are having an investment lose value, And the guys who are fortunate enough, and put the hard work and time in to make the new releases, reap the benefits of getting money out of them.

 

Keep the discussion coming though, lots of fun.

[sqoon]

Two ways to look at it. The investment and return angle and the simple gamer angle. It seems that the simple gamers are being penalized at expense of a 'return on investment' for 50 individuals (most likely far less because of hoarders who bought 3 or 4 copies a piece).

 

So, protecting the 'return on investment' for those 35 investors, simply release the ROM in different packaging.

 

This really is supply and demand economics. There most likely would be good demand if the supply were replenished, and the programmer and publisher would be able to gain more revenue on their original time/capital investment. Why would any sane individual balk at that prospect?