Doran Posted February 15, 2003 Share Posted February 15, 2003 As we near the end of the life expectancy of most 1970s era EPROM chips, and prototype cartridges begin to experience bit rot, what has been done to save them? Can I hope that the folks at AtariAge have contacted the owners of these rare images and convinced them to dump the roms, or will these things be lost to the sands of time? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CPUWIZ Posted February 15, 2003 Share Posted February 15, 2003 Except from a few protos, all of them have been dumped and they are archived. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tempest Posted February 15, 2003 Share Posted February 15, 2003 All of my prototypes have been dumped and archived. Tempest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattG/Snyper2099 Posted February 17, 2003 Share Posted February 17, 2003 Bit rot is bull crap! I check all my carts once a year and have only found one bad one. That one could have been a manufacturing error as well. I don't think this is 'most' of the carts out there. I think 'most' cartridge based chips, as long as they are kept from high heat and moisture, are good for at least 100 years. I have gone through 3,000 or so games and for all systems, 4 games came up not working, not cleanable (i tried like hell too). That's like one cart per 3,000 that turned up 'dead' and most of those carts haven't come anywhere close to their "expected lifespan" so to speak. These are odds I can live with. I do keep all my valuable carts sealed in plasit and then sealed agin in another plastic container with silicone. I don't think I'll have any problems with my protos/carts in my lifetime. MattG. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Slocum Posted February 17, 2003 Share Posted February 17, 2003 I check all my carts once a year and have only found one bad one. Almost all release carts are mask ROMs which are not prone to bit rot. There are a few companies that released a few 2600 carts on PROMs or EPROMs, but I'm not sure which ones. I think XONOX is one of them. -Paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jentzsch Posted February 17, 2003 Share Posted February 17, 2003 Almost all release carts are mask ROMs which are not prone to bit rot. There are a few companies that released a few 2600 carts on PROMs or EPROMs, but I'm not sure which ones. I think XONOX is one of them. Aren't most protos (if not all) also made on (E)PROMs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CPUWIZ Posted February 17, 2003 Share Posted February 17, 2003 All prototypes are EPROM's ! XONOX carts are blob style PCB's, they are neither traditional ROM's nor EPROM's, one of the reason a lot of them are dead by now. I have analyzed almost every single companies cartridge PCB and I could write a document as big as Kevin Horton's bankswitching doc about it but I don't feel it's neccessary at this point. It's funny though that people still believe that ROM's don't die, perfect example is BOMB carts. I have owned/dismantled many of them, they were all DOA ! Although I believe the term "bit rot" is crap, ROM's and EPROM's die just as your modern CD media will eventually, it's all a matter of time ! Bah, too much typing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nukey Shay Posted February 17, 2003 Share Posted February 17, 2003 It's funny though that people still believe that ROM's don't die, perfect example is BOMB carts. I have owned/dismantled many of them, they were all DOA ! Hahaha...maybe they should have been named "Dud" carts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanBoris Posted February 17, 2003 Share Posted February 17, 2003 "Bit-rot" is a scientifically valid fact, I have seen it documented in an engineering text. EPROMS work by placing an electrical charge into insulated cells in the chip. The insullation is not perfect so the charge will slowly leak out. The real question is how long it will take to happen. There are probably a lot of factors that effect this, but from 10 to 25 years seems to be the generally accepted number. Of course this doesn't mean that every EPROM will rot in this time, some may last much longer. As other people have said this does not apply to 99% of the cartridges out there since production carts where mask programmed and did not use EPROMS, so where not susceptible to this problem. But almost all protos used EPROMS thus are susceptible to bit-rot Bit rot is bull crap! I check all my carts once a year and have only found one bad one. That one could have been a manufacturing error as well. I don't think this is 'most' of the carts out there. I think 'most' cartridge based chips, as long as they are kept from high heat and moisture, are good for at least 100 years. I have gone through 3,000 or so games and for all systems, 4 games came up not working, not cleanable (i tried like hell too). That's like one cart per 3,000 that turned up 'dead' and most of those carts haven't come anywhere close to their "expected lifespan" so to speak. These are odds I can live with. I do keep all my valuable carts sealed in plasit and then sealed agin in another plastic container with silicone. I don't think I'll have any problems with my protos/carts in my lifetime. MattG. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Godzilla Posted February 17, 2003 Share Posted February 17, 2003 we need sally struthers on tv raising money for our save the protos campaign! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulMcCraneFan Posted February 18, 2003 Share Posted February 18, 2003 While we're on the subject of protos... How much would a Dukes of Hazzard proto be worth? I was in a local store today and they had one for sale for either $125 or $130, can't remember which. This store has a tendency to be overpriced on some games--for example, they charge anywhere from $35-$50 for some games that are only a 5/10 rarity. Just wondering if they are overpricing the proto, too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CPUWIZ Posted February 18, 2003 Share Posted February 18, 2003 What did it look like ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulMcCraneFan Posted February 18, 2003 Share Posted February 18, 2003 It had a black and white Dukes of Hazzard label on it and said prototype under the game title. I'm pretty sure it was a standard cartridge--not beveled or anything like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CPUWIZ Posted February 18, 2003 Share Posted February 18, 2003 I'd say $70.00,- tops. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noble Kale Posted February 18, 2003 Share Posted February 18, 2003 It's funny though that people still believe that ROM's don't die, perfect example is BOMB carts. I have owned/dismantled many of them, they were all DOA !Glad my childhood Z-tack still works*hugs Z-tack* :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
san-d-2000 Posted February 18, 2003 Share Posted February 18, 2003 Videogems are also known to die over the years. -Sandy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CPUWIZ Posted February 18, 2003 Share Posted February 18, 2003 Bah, it's PAL pal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulMcCraneFan Posted February 18, 2003 Share Posted February 18, 2003 What's PAL? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noble Kale Posted February 18, 2003 Share Posted February 18, 2003 Bah, it's PAL pal. icon_biggrin.gif *hugs Z-Tack harder* Don't listen to the mean man Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CPUWIZ Posted February 18, 2003 Share Posted February 18, 2003 What's PAL? The Z-Tack he has is PAL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noble Kale Posted February 18, 2003 Share Posted February 18, 2003 ie: Not NTSC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulMcCraneFan Posted February 19, 2003 Share Posted February 19, 2003 OK. I know the difference between NTSC and PAL. I just didn't know what CPUWIZ was referring to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marco Posted February 19, 2003 Share Posted February 19, 2003 CPUWIZ is a traitor from a PAL country that now thinks it's cool to collect NTSC carts only, while he knows that the PAL realm is so much more interesting... :wink: Cheers, Marco Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jentzsch Posted February 19, 2003 Share Posted February 19, 2003 CPUWIZ is a traitor from a PAL country that now thinks it's cool to collect NTSC carts only, while he knows that the PAL realm is so much more interesting... :wink: I can see some interesting psychlogic aspects here: That's just self-defence. It's probably way too frustrating for him to collect PAL carts in the US. So he prefers to make himself believe that those hard to get PAL carts are no good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CPUWIZ Posted February 19, 2003 Share Posted February 19, 2003 I'll start collecting PAL when I'm done with NTSC (or close to done). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Like us on Facebook
Follow us on Twitter
AtariAge on Instagram
Watch us on YouTube
Chat on Discord
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.