Breaking news: Intellivision flashback coming to retail

[Intellfan]

Try to find out if the buttons/keypad are still like original....on the circuit printed mylar sheet.

yes it would at least be something if we could use the Matrix mylar sheet

 

[Flojomojo]

Question for the complainers: how is atgames "making" anyone do anything?

[Rev]

Do you think any one version if any will stand out as the "most collectible"?

Hmm. Not sure. Too hard to guess right now. Only AT games will know how many of each version will ship.

[Noah98]

Very disappointing. I was really looking forward to the overlays, and not only are there less, but some are exclusive to Sam's Club (I have no desire to become a member).

 

It's still a good value, but a single version of each console would have been nice!

[Rev]

At games should sell a complete overlay set seperatly!

[Noah98]

I'd gladly pay for more overlays!

[mr_intv]

Let's all remember that this is the "first" intellivision flashback console. I know I will be buying a few in hopes that sales are very strong and that in the future perhaps a intellivision flashback 2 or even 3 see the light of day with improvements on the original.

[Greg2600]

Given that I have only INTV 1's, the controller replacment was never an option. However, the overlay news is really aggravating. Sham's Club will not get a single cent from me. Collector or not, how much more could it have cost to include all the overlays? I feared this from the beginning. Cheapskates.

[+wongojack]

As someone who has hacked the controller, I can offer that a new designer would probably look at it and think "Why would it be like this?" The 16 directions are achieved in an unusual way and there are other easier ways to get there. They probably used one of those easier ways.

 

On the bright side, maybe you can use the keypad and directions at the same time - who knows!

[jaybird3rd]

Well. I'll keep my preorder, but of course this is disappointing from a collector's point of view.

 

I never really planned to use the new hand controllers with my original Master Component anyway (I've got enough spares and repair parts on hand), so the lack of controller compatibility isn't a dealbreaker for me, even though a source for new parts would have been nice. I'm just curious to know why AtGames couldn't make them pin-compatible. The original hand controller design was about as simple and cost-effective as you can get: just a mylar flexboard and some plastic buttons, with eight data pins and a ground wire in the connector. Most inexpensive computer keyboards being made today still use mylar flexboard and rubber dome contact switches. Any changes by AtGames would only make the new controllers more complicated and expensive than the originals, so why do it?

 

I'm guessing that, unlike the originals, the new controllers contain active component(s), such as an MCU; if so, they would have required the addition of a power pin that the original hand controller interface didn't provide, hence the incompatibility. That tells me that AtGames took the lazy way out instead of replicating the original design. Perhaps they wanted to add features (such as a special key or key combination to return to the menu) that the original design wouldn't have permitted, or maybe they wanted to eliminate the conflicting Gray codes in the original design to permit input combinations that previously couldn't be used (running and shooting at the same time in Night Stalker, for example). The latter gives me pause, since that would also have required changes to the games. In any case, it's certainly a disappointment.

[+Lathe26]

Perhaps the reason for the lack of electrical compatibility is that the new controllers use power. The original controllers don't receive power; they only get 1 ground pin and 8 pins that either float or get shorted to ground. There was no 5V pin. In the old days, this was the easiest way to build a controller but is very limiting by modern standards.

 

I was planning to buy more of the Flashbacks for the express purpose of being able to plug in good controllers into the ECS (as opposed to the Intellivision II controllers). The new brown would even look good with my brown Euro ECS (a.k.a. the "PAL" ECS).

 

If my guess is right, it will be possible to build an adapter for the new controllers. However, it will require a battery or wall-wart to do so.

[+Lathe26]

... looks like jaybird3d beat me to the punch while I was writing my post.

[Bill Loguidice]

I'm not aware of any special key combinations, at least from the versions of the manual that I've seen. That's certainly one possibility, though, since none of the controllers have any menu functionality like the Atari Flashback controller does. They definitely replicated the functionality of the original controllers, down to all the nuances, so we know that's in place, so maybe it has something to do with the requirements of the "console" itself rather than the controller itself, i.e., the console requires certain signals to be sent and translated by the emulator, breaking compatibility with the original controllers and in turn requiring the new controllers to be specifically wired for that.

Hopefully it's as simple as someone hacking together a clever little adapter and we can use these controllers on the real thing. I don't wish Intellivision II controllers on anyone, and few have access to the removable "clone" controllers that were based on the original Master Component's to replace them.

[1980gamer]

I think ATGAMES did this to save a few pennies. It's going to cost them several dollars...

 

Penny wise, dollar foolish move. You would think they would have the pulse of retro gamers?

 

Not a chance I guess. Dumb ass move!

 

Canceled all my pre-orders 5 minutes ago.

[jaybird3rd]

If my guess is right, it will be possible to build an adapter for the new controllers. However, it will require a battery or wall-wart to do so.

I'll wager that they went with an NES-style serialized interface, which certainly would have freed up enough lines to add a power pin to the connector. If so, it should indeed be possible to build an adapter, perhaps using a serial to parallel shift register and some additional logic to recreate the original Gray codes (if the new controller doesn't already use them internally). But as you say, this would require a separate power supply.

[mdoerty]

Bill, thanks for your work on this.

I plan to get the Dollar General version. I have all the overlays (except for some Homebrews which I miss-filed).

 

Overlays are in almost every case over-rated. INTV limited which games had them and few CV games ever had them.

[+Lathe26]

 

... and few have access to the removable "clone" controllers that were based on the original Master Component's to replace them.

 

 

My collector ears just perked up. I was only aware of the Wico Command Control and the Sears Controllers. Are there others?

[Bill Loguidice]

 

My collector ears just perked up. I was only aware of the Wico Command Control and the Sears Controllers. Are there others?

 

No, the Sears ones are what I meant, and yeah, I'm not aware of any other mass market third party controller except for the Wico (which I've never used, but heard are pretty bad). The Sears controllers (I only have the controllers, not the system) are what I use on my Intellivision II when I'm not using the Master Component.

[+Lathe26]

 

No, the Sears ones are what I meant, and yeah, I'm not aware of any other mass market third party controller except for the Wico (which I've never used, but heard are pretty bad). The Sears controllers (I only have the controllers, not the system) are what I use on my Intellivision II when I'm not using the Master Component.

 

Thanks for the clarification.

 

Regarding the Wico, yeah they are pretty bad. I have 1 good one and 1 with a intermittent short. Both are lousy joysticks.

[+wongojack]

Well. I'll keep my preorder, but of course this is disappointing from a collector's point of view.

 

I'm guessing that, unlike the originals, the new controllers contain active component(s), such as an MCU; if so, they would have required the addition of a power pin that the original hand controller interface didn't provide, hence the incompatibility. That tells me that AtGames took the lazy way out instead of replicating the original design.

 

Perhaps the reason for the lack of electrical compatibility is that the new controllers use power. The original controllers don't receive power; they only get 1 ground pin and 8 pins that either float or get shorted to ground. There was no 5V pin. In the old days, this was the easiest way to build a controller but is very limiting by modern standards.

 

This is what I was thinking too, but I was giving them the benefit of the doubt that they wanted to free up lines to just not have the signals overlap (key + direction). It probably has nothing to do with that.

[Atariboy]

Disappointing, but I'm still looking forward to getting both units.

[+Lathe26]

This is what I was thinking too, but I was giving them the benefit of the doubt that they wanted to free up lines to just not have the signals overlap (key + direction). It probably has nothing to do with that.

 

Well, it is theoretically possible for some of the games. Games that let a single player use either controller (like AD&D Cloudy Mountain and Night Stalker) could be setup on the Flashback to allow key+direction. This would be done by taking the proprietary input from controller, checking a flag in the emulator on whether the game supports simultaneous controllers, and then routing the "direction" to port 1 and the "key" to port 2 of the emulated PSG chip.

 

This trick would not work for games that only support 1 controller per player.

 

Alternatively, they could re-write portions of the games to support a non-standard emulated PSG chip that doesn't have the key+direction limitation.

[Bill Loguidice]

For what it's worth, the version of the Intellivision manual that I saw mentions the same restriction on using the keypad buttons and directional pad that we have with the original controllers.

[jaybird3rd]

For what it's worth, the version of the Intellivision manual that I saw mentions the same restriction on using the keypad buttons and directional pad that we have with the original controllers.

Thanks, that's good to know. It means that they're not altering the games to make the controls work "better".

 

It does leave me wondering all the more about the need to "break" backward compatibility of the hand controllers, though. When I receive my unit, I'll probably crack open the console and the controllers to see what they did with them before I even turn the thing on for the first time!

 

(Note: I'm not implying here that backward compatibility was deliberately sabotaged solely for the purpose of annoying collectors. It's possible to use the word "broken" as an adjective or as a verb, and I intended it as an adjective. We assumed at the time that the compatibility issue was because of a change AtGames made to the controller interface, and we were speculating about what design considerations could have prompted them to do this; I just thought that "break" was a more efficient way of saying "change the design in such a way that the controllers aren't backward compatible anymore". As we've since learned, no such change to the interface was made: AtGames' intention was to maintain compatibility, but a manufacturing issue somehow affected it later. It doesn't mean that collectors should boybott the Intellivision Flashback.)

[+DZ-Jay]

Thanks, that's good to know. It means that they're not altering the games to make the controls work "better".

 

It does leave me wondering all the more about the need to "break" backward compatibility of the hand controllers, though. When I receive my unit, I'll probably crack open the controllers to see what they did with them before I even turn the thing on for the first time!

 

I really doubt that it was intended to "break" backwards compatibility. More likely, the circuitry on the new controllers is better, and does not have the quirky and glitchy limitations and annoying artifacts of the original ones, which were aiming to use as cheap a hardware as possible at the time. It may have been more efficient, cost- and labour-wise, to implement the new hand-controllers using modern circuitry that provides different hardware signals, and have the software translate it into whatever the emulated virtual hardware expects.

 

In other words, it may have been more expensive (and, lets face it, silly) to attempt to re-implement the hardware using technology from the 1970s. The aim was to produce an accurate simulation of the gaming experience, not replicate the physical aspects of the hardware components.

 

-dZ.

Edited July 3, 2014 by DZ-Jay