+LS650 Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 Well, that's not good news. I still plan on getting both consoles if the emulation and controller feel are as good as reported, but I can see why serious fans will be turned off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pixelboy Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 This eloquently demonstrates the unavoidable clash between today's technical and commercial constraints and the expectations of ColecoVision fans. The Flashback's controllers are not compatible with the original console probably because the internal electrical setup is different. This is to be expected when jumping ahead 30 years technologically. As for multiple editions of the Flashback with slight differences, these are linked to AtGames looking to get the widest distribution possible in America (Canada is not even a sure thing yet, AFAIK) and creating special versions for DG and Sam's Club only serves that purpose. The only way we're going to get what we ColecoVision enthusiasts truly want is if we make it ourselves. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Loguidice Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 This eloquently demonstrates the unavoidable clash between today's technical and commercial constraints and the expectations of ColecoVision fans. The Flashback's controllers are not compatible with the original console probably because the internal electrical setup is different. This is to be expected when jumping ahead 30 years technologically. Most likely, but the fact of the matter is the Atari and Sega systems have been and continue to be cross-compatible. It was also AtGames' own target to make the Intellivision and ColecoVision work a similar way. Obviously something changed along the way. I can only assume the costs ended up being too high for the "minor" benefit of pleasing enthusiasts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boxpressed Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 Most likely, but the fact of the matter is the Atari and Sega systems have been and continue to be cross-compatible. It was also AtGames' own target to make the Intellivision and ColecoVision work a similar way. Obviously something changed along the way. I can only assume the costs ended up being too high for the "minor" benefit of pleasing enthusiasts. I think that this reason is what makes these Flashbacks so controversial on forums like AtariAge. This recent disclosure about the controllers reinforces the reality that retro enthusiasts like us just don't matter. So, it can be difficult to accept that what might mean a lot to our lives matters not in the slightest in the big scheme of things. This isn't news to most, but the unpopular AtGames decisions (multiple variants, non-compatible controllers, only a handful of overlays) make it overt. How many CV and Inty enthusiasts can there be? 1,000 tops for each platform? That might be the difference between a mediocre and good sales DAY during the holiday season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manoau2002 Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 Not having the controllers really changes things. For me it's the deference between maybe buying one unit for my collection if I can obtain it for the right price and buying 2-3 units. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg2600 Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 Well I had two controllers refurbished and the sticks replaced with the longer ball ones, all by Yurkie. That IMO is the only way to go. The overlay thing is maddening. It's a few sheets of paper, cheatskates. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rev Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 Ill still pick up the colecovision Flashback, but I doubt Ill get multiple copies now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bartsfam Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 I think that this reason is what makes these Flashbacks so controversial on forums like AtariAge. This recent disclosure about the controllers reinforces the reality that retro enthusiasts like us just don't matter. So, it can be difficult to accept that what might mean a lot to our lives matters not in the slightest in the big scheme of things. This isn't news to most, but the unpopular AtGames decisions (multiple variants, non-compatible controllers, only a handful of overlays) make it overt. How many CV and Inty enthusiasts can there be? 1,000 tops for each platform? That might be the difference between a mediocre and good sales DAY during the holiday season. Boxpressed brings up a good point about 1,000 enthusiasts for each platform. Which brings me to my question of how many of these do you think AtGames is producing in total? 100,000 each, (Colecovision & Intellivision)?? More? Less? Bill do you have any idea? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cimerians Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 The thing that never makes sense to me is this: Why do these groups make these consoles if its not for us? I can understand when the Atari flashback 1 came out or the Jakks games I was like cool....everyone can try these out but over time I kept seeing improvements over these and I for one can only assume its for people like us. I'm not kidding, unless they have some of stat to show who they sell more of these to I can only believe my own instincts that people like us are the bigger spenders. We're not as small a demographic as some people may seem to think. I believe it grows on a yearly rate. So who are they targeting? Casuals? Seriously? .....seriously? They expect to sell masses of Colecovision consoles to them over us? Or is it because, if they don't do it they cant get the distribution they need from retailers? Is that it? Its ludicrous. I'm not sure who they are trying to please cause at this point its nobody. I dont think casuals will care for it and dump it after the kids play with it for all but 5 minutes and old dad will eventually pack it in the garage. Sorry but I'm pissed off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Loguidice Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 No clue on production numbers, sorry, and I doubt they'd want to publicly reveal that even if they somehow wanted to tell me. I'd guess based on the market for these things these days no more than a few hundred thousand of each. As for who they're targeting with this, it has and always will be the masses and not us. Any concessions to our community are purely side effects of the development process. It's always been that way. They'd rather target the non-discriminating consumer than the likes of "us" who likely know the ins and outs of the original hardware in great detail, have access to the real thing, etc., and can nitpick every little error or omission. To be fair, for those people, for "us," we can in fact do better, and that's work with the real thing. For the average consumer who has a fuzzy childhood memory of this stuff and wants to relive those good feelings, an approximation is obviously just fine. It's also important to remember that it's hard to expect much from something that is meant to retail for $60 and sell on the street for much less. There are only so many goodies you can include, only so much time you can spend on engineering, etc., before you cut into already slim margins. Look, I'm not happy about this either, but as a whole, I'm still excited for these products, not only for me, but also for the renewed name recognition in general this will bring. In the end, stuff like this is good for our hobby/interest/passion. Anything that reaches the masses like this is. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boxpressed Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 I think they are targeting former owners of the ColecoVision who can afford to blow $40 on a nostalgic impulse purchase. It's the same reason why people pay good money to see Rick Springfield at some Midwestern ribfest. If two million ColecoVisions were sold, then let's say that 10% of them would spring for the Flashback (a generous estimate, probably). So, 200,000 units at $20 apiece (or whatever) wholesale would be $4 million. 1,000 CV enthusiasts buying two each would be 1% of those sales (that's a generous estimate too). I can't imagine any business catering to the needs of the 1%, who will still probably buy the product anyway. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cimerians Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 Look, I'm not happy about this either, but as a whole, I'm still excited for these products, not only for me, but also for the renewed name recognition in general this will bring. In the end, stuff like this is good for our hobby/interest/passion. Anything that reaches the masses like this is. I'm just venting and its not at all directed to anyone here. As you can tell the news was a let down and it bothers me. Still I agree I'd rather see something than nothing at all. Some form of recognition. Don't get your hopes up indeed. I got gashed by the news and please continue to keep us informed warts and all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+davidcalgary29 Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 This eloquently demonstrates the unavoidable clash between today's technical and commercial constraints and the expectations of ColecoVision fans. The Flashback's controllers are not compatible with the original console probably because the internal electrical setup is different. This is to be expected when jumping ahead 30 years technologically. As for multiple editions of the Flashback with slight differences, these are linked to AtGames looking to get the widest distribution possible in America (Canada is not even a sure thing yet, AFAIK) and creating special versions for DG and Sam's Club only serves that purpose. The only way we're going to get what we ColecoVision enthusiasts truly want is if we make it ourselves. Ugh. It's ludicrous that they'd forgo Canadian distribution when the CV made a comparatively bigger splash here than it did in the US. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
retroillucid Posted July 3, 2014 Author Share Posted July 3, 2014 Ugh. It's ludicrous that they'd forgo Canadian distribution when the CV made a comparatively bigger splash here than it did in the US. ^ This! ^ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Loguidice Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 Still I agree I'd rather see something than nothing at all. Some form of recognition. Don't get your hopes up indeed. I got gashed by the news and please continue to keep us informed warts and all. I actually got mildly depressed from the news (which surprised me), and this is from a guy who has all the original stuff. I think I'm most disappointed for our community, though. I have no real concerns about the general public. They'll eat this stuff up without a second thought. For them, it's still perfect, since they had no specific need for replacement controllers or a full set of overlays. I'm trying to keep things in perspective by focusing on what's left for "us." I guess in many ways, with these being the first of their kind and for all the other reasons we've talked about in these threads, they're still pretty damned cool. I'm trying not to let *my* disappointment over what *I* wanted (and I know many others on here) color that basic truth. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pixelboy Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 The thing that never makes sense to me is this: Why do these groups make these consoles if its not for us? I can understand when the Atari flashback 1 came out or the Jakks games I was like cool....everyone can try these out but over time I kept seeing improvements over these and I for one can only assume its for people like us. I'm not kidding, unless they have some of stat to show who they sell more of these to I can only believe my own instincts that people like us are the bigger spenders. We're not as small a demographic as some people may seem to think. I believe it grows on a yearly rate. So who are they targeting? Casuals? Seriously? .....seriously? They expect to sell masses of Colecovision consoles to them over us? Or is it because, if they don't do it they cant get the distribution they need from retailers? Is that it? Its ludicrous. I'm not sure who they are trying to please cause at this point its nobody. I dont think casuals will care for it and dump it after the kids play with it for all but 5 minutes and old dad will eventually pack it in the garage. AtGames is not making the CV Flashback for "currently active" fans of the console, but rather for the "impulse-buy" casual gamers. In this case, it's the hordes of 40-somethings who will spot the Flashback during a random trip to a local store, remember playing ColecoVision games when they were young, check the pricetag on the Flashback, and if it fits their budget, they'll buy it just to bring it home and play with it to rekindle some nostalgic memories. They may even share the joy with their kids, if they're young enough. After a while, the Flashback will find its way to a closet and will eventually be sold online or in garage sales, but at that point, AtGames and retailers will have already made their money from the initial sale. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Loguidice Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 Ugh. It's ludicrous that they'd forgo Canadian distribution when the CV made a comparatively bigger splash here than it did in the US. If they could, they would. It's not something they're purposely ignoring to smite Canadians. It's not as straightforward as just wanting to do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cimerians Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 AtGames is not making the CV Flashback for "currently active" fans of the console, but rather for the "impulse-buy" casual gamers. In this case, it's the hordes of 40-somethings who will spot the Flashback during a random trip to a local store, remember playing ColecoVision games when they were young, check the pricetag on the Flashback, and if it fits their budget, they'll buy it just to bring it home and play with it to rekindle some nostalgic memories. They may even share the joy with their kids, if they're young enough. After a while, the Flashback will find its way to a closet and will eventually be sold online or in garage sales, but at that point, AtGames and retailers will have already made their money from the initial sale. Exactly what I tried to point out. Like you said its up to us to make our own console. Edit: There I go again losing perspective. Right Bill? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manoau2002 Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 In this case, it's the hordes of 40-somethings who will spot the Flashback during a random trip to a local store, remember playing ColecoVision games when they were young, check the pricetag on the Flashback, and if it fits their budget, they'll buy it just to bring it home and play with it to rekindle some nostalgic memories. They may even share the joy with their kids, if they're young enough. After a while, the Flashback will find its way to a closet and will eventually be sold online or in garage sales, There may be a few who become interested enough in the flashback that they become curious about the other original games and the new homebrew games that they check out atariage or there local game shops to look for the real deal. Thus growing the hobby. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
retroillucid Posted July 3, 2014 Author Share Posted July 3, 2014 There may be a few who become interested enough in the flashback that they become curious about the other original games and the new homebrew games that they check out atariage or there local game shops to look for the real deal. Thus growing the hobby. Good point Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fiddlepaddle Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 Those "compatible" controllers was the main reason I would likely buy one of these. What could make it electrically uncompatible? I guess the numeric keypad encoding could be changed to make it cheaper, especially if they decided to put a chip in the controller... (dag gone it) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Loguidice Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 Semi-good news. I just got an update from AtGames. The intention was all along that they were going to make the Intellivision Flashback cross-compatible with the original, but somewhere along the way, the compatibility broke. They were too late to catch the issue before it went to production, but have every intention of fixing it in a future revision of the system. I'll keep everyone updated for more, but it's clear that this year's version will not have the fix. I'm waiting to hear if the ColecoVision Flashback will be OK or that's also too late. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thevnaguy Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 Semi-good news. I just got an update from AtGames. The intention was all along that they were going to make the Intellivision Flashback cross-compatible with the original, but somewhere along the way, the compatibility broke. They were too late to catch the issue before it went to production, but have every intention of fixing it in a future revision of the system. I'll keep everyone updated for more, but it's clear that this year's version will not have the fix. I'm waiting to hear if the ColecoVision Flashback will be OK or that's also too late. keeping the fingers crossed for the ColecoVision being ok at launch 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+evg2000 Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 So what happens if I plug a CFB joystick in a real CV or visa-versa does any one or anything get hurst. Same question regarding INTV. Also, if anything could get damaged are they labeling controllers and systems to warn people of damage that may occur? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKELETOR68 Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 I am still getting one! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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