two-port 5200 video problem... help?

[+x=usr(1536)]

When I had a similar problem with one of my 2-port 5200s, it was a dead CPU (SALLY).  6m30s into running any game that I could throw at it, it would lock up and if any sound was being generated at the same time it would play infinitely.

 

That may or may not be your problem, but I will say this: Rockwell CPUs don't exactly have a great reputation.  If you have one in there, I would suggest replacing it with a Synertek SALLY.

 

But, before you do that - have you metered out any of the power paths?  Better to find out that it's a voltage regulator or similar before going all-out on CPUs, etc.

[duckodb]

No all I’ve done is everything I posted, I don’t have voltage meters and all that and I just got this thing less than a week ago. I have bought a second 5200 and it’s a 2 port so maybe if it works ok I won’t mess with this 4 port if not maybe I’ll at least have parts for the 4 port, I didn’t pay hardly anything for the 2 port its the console only untested. Most likely it won’t work since these 5200s seem to be junk for the most part. Won’t know till it shows up though. It sounds like you had the exact same issue and I’d bet anything it’s the same problem. 

[+x=usr(1536)]

14 hours ago, duckodb said:

Most likely it won’t work since these 5200s seem to be junk for the most part.

I disagree.  Unless they've been seriously abused, most issues that they have are typically fixable.  Remember that we're dealing with 40-year-old electronics, and they can develop problems over time just like anything else despite having been pretty solidly-built originally.

14 hours ago, duckodb said:

It sounds like you had the exact same issue and I’d bet anything it’s the same problem.

Rockwell CPU failure is a known issue.  They also have timing problems for which Atari issued a service bulletin during the 5200's lifetime.  These days, with CPUs costing very little, it's easier to just swap CPUs than it is to try to apply the workaround.

[+-^CrossBow^-]

15 minutes ago, x=usr(1536) said:

I disagree.  Unless they've been seriously abused, most issues that they have are typically fixable.  Remember that we're dealing with 40-year-old electronics, and they can develop problems over time just like anything else despite having been pretty solidly-built originally.

Rockwell CPU failure is a known issue.  They also have timing problems for which Atari issued a service bulletin during the 5200's lifetime.  These days, with CPUs costing very little, it's easier to just swap CPUs than it is to try to apply the workaround.

I agree with you on this. I've only had one 5200 that suddenly started to give me issues and as that was over 15 years ago, I wasn't in the fix and repair mindset back then and found it cheaper to get a replacement 5200. The unfortunate part of that story is that by the time I was actually trying to fix these consoles, I had stripped so much off that 5200 that it wasn't worth trying to fix it anymore and just kept using it as a part donor over the years. 

 

But the point is that most of Atari's consoles are actually built really well. The case shells are a different story starting with the 5200 and 7800, but the electronics inside are quite sound and fairly easy to fix.

 

I think the 5200 is junk consensus is all due to the notoriety of the stock controllers which, are also not that bad and can be easily fixed in most cases.

[duckodb]

Well according to a video I found lower picture, mine in the upper picture is not one of the cpus in the serial number range of the timing problems but I assume it’s still a Rockwell since all the other numbers are the same but there’s no RC on mine so idk. 

[+x=usr(1536)]

4 hours ago, duckodb said:

Well according to a video I found lower picture, mine in the upper picture is not one of the cpus in the serial number range of the timing problems

Just to clarify: it's a specific date range, not serial number range, for which the service bulletin was issued.

 

Either way, going by the date range isn't a 100% guarantee that the CPU's OK, particularly given that Rockwell CPUs are known to have a higher failure rate than others.

4 hours ago, duckodb said:

but I assume it’s still a Rockwell since all the other numbers are the same but there’s no RC on mine so idk. 

It's a Rockwell; the manufacturer's logo confirms it.  Also, the CPUs will carry the same basic part number (C014806) regardless of the manufacturer.

 

 

That's one of the Synertek CPUs.  Note the stylised 'S' logo to the left of the datecode, and part number that matches the Rockwell CPU.

[duckodb]

I noticed after I posted those pictures mine says C104806 and all the other ones I’ve seen say C014806 . Does the 1 and 0 being reversed make a difference? Mine also has a round silver Atari service sticker on the back of it under the serial number. Is that something they all had or is it a sticker that may have been put on it in a shop that worked on it back in the day?

[duckodb]

 This is that service sticker.

[+x=usr(1536)]

3 hours ago, duckodb said:

 This is that service sticker.

It was put there by the shop that worked on it.  The giveaway is their address and phone number; factory service stickers didn't list a specific dealer.

3 hours ago, duckodb said:

I noticed after I posted those pictures mine says C104806 and all the other ones I’ve seen say C014806 . Does the 1 and 0 being reversed make a difference?

Probably just a printing error, but someone else would need to confirm that.

[duckodb]

4 hours ago, x=usr(1536) said:

It was put there by the shop that worked on it.  The giveaway is their address and phone number; factory service stickers didn't list a specific dealer.

Probably just a printing error, but someone else would need to confirm that.

That’s what I figured, judging by the way this console and the games and everything looks they weren’t used or handled very much, and the fact that both joysticks work and knowing their history makes me think they weren’t used much. When this thing was bought new I bet early on it started giving trouble so they took it to a shop and had it looked at and either it never got fixed or so after it did this freezing issue started and they shelfed it and got something different.   Say what you want to about 5200s that their issues are usually fixable and whatnot but I’ve still got my 2600 my parents bought me in 1980 and it got the crap played outta it till early 86 when I got a NES and still after that some and it’s never skipped a beat to this day, neither has my NES and I still have it hooked to my living room tv right now. 

[+x=usr(1536)]

2 minutes ago, duckodb said:

Say what you want to about 5200s that their issues are usually fixable and whatnot but I’ve still got my 2600 my parents bought me in 1980 and it got the crap played outta it till early 86 when I got a NES and still after that some and it’s never skipped a beat to this day, neither has my NES and I still have it hooked to my living room tv right now. 

That's great, but there are also a ton of NESes out there with the blinking red LED of death that is one of that platform's common points of failure.  2600s aren't without their weaknesses either; the disassembled one on our kitchen table currently awaiting parts can attest to this.

 

Now, getting back to the 5200: what are you planning on doing with it?  Spares or repair?

[duckodb]

Oh my nes only ever did that blinking red light when the cartridge was dirty, alcohol on a q-tip rubbed across it fixes that. I think twice I had it apart and cleaned the inside where the cartridge goes. I guess I’ll try to figure out where to get one of these Synertek CPUs you’re talking about and try to fix it. I guess you just turn the board over and use a soldering iron to remove the old one and solder the new one back in? I’ve never been good at soldering. The 2 ports supposed to be here tomorrow so hopefully it works but I’d still like to get the 4 working, im sure it’s in a lot better shape than the 2 . If the 2 won’t work it’s probably pointless to try to take the cpu out of it not knowing if that’s why it won’t work too. It would be nice if the new RF switch box fixes the 4 it should be here by the end of the week. 

[RB5200]

And as far as the 5200 goes , i still have my 2 port port from 84 i'm 11 years old at that time, and its still running like a champ. Only repair it's ever needed are controllers, started repairing those when 15,16 or so.  However not so much good fortune with my original NES or any other NES iv'e gotten since. I've had to repair all of them in some way or another. The point is even though you have one that has a problem doesn't make it or the whole line up junk. Sadly that kind of info or thought comes from folks who just simply don't understand certain things and then turns it into misinformation and then just trickles on down the line like a cancer.

 

So as that goes  fixing or selling as x=usr(1536) asked. if want to sell pm me i'll be interesred to buy and fix and resale so someone can hopefully enjoy it.

[+-^CrossBow^-]

Most 4 port units have their main ic chips in sockets.  So replacing the cpu shouldn't be that big a deal.  However did you check to see if it has the timing fix applied for that Rockwell cpu in it now? If so, that would need to be removed as it could cause problems with a replacement cpu.

 

Best electronics sells the cpu for cheap but do be sure to request that you don't want a Rockwell made one.  I just placed an order for some yesterday making that request. 

[duckodb]

4 minutes ago, -^CrossBow^- said:

Most 4 port units have their main ic chips in sockets.  So replacing the cpu shouldn't be that big a deal.  However did you check to see if it has the timing fix applied for that Rockwell cpu in it now? If so, that would need to be removed as it could cause problems with a replacement cpu.

 

Best electronics sells the cpu for cheap but do be sure to request that you don't want a Rockwell made one.  I just placed an order for some yesterday making that request. 

Can you tell by looking at that picture i posted if it’s a socket? 

[+x=usr(1536)]

The CPU is in a socket in both pictures.

[duckodb]

Just now, x=usr(1536) said:

The CPU is in a socket.

Well that’s good this should be simple then.

[+-^CrossBow^-]

1 hour ago, duckodb said:

Can you tell by looking at that picture i posted if it’s a socket? 

@x=usr(1536) beat me to it, (Internet has been crap all day for the past 2 days at my office...). But yes the pic you shared shows the chip in a socket so it should be easy to swap out.

 

It takes longer to remove that RF shielding in the case of the 5200 than it does to swap a chip LOL!

 

[duckodb]

48 minutes ago, -^CrossBow^- said:

@x=usr(1536) beat me to it, (Internet has been crap all day for the past 2 days at my office...). But yes the pic you shared shows the chip in a socket so it should be easy to swap out.

 

It takes longer to remove that RF shielding in the case of the 5200 than it does to swap a chip LOL!

 

Yes that shield has already cut my finger once. When I had it apart I didn’t see the timing fix the guy in that video did but I’ll look closer next time. I emailed Best Electronics I saw they listed that chip on their website but I don’t see a simple add to cart button to buy it, i told them Synertek, no Rockwell. 

[+-^CrossBow^-]

My preference might be the NCR ones as I've found those to be quite reliable. I have pretty much all NCR CPUs in my 7800s and 5200s in my personal collection. Just happened that way and I'm glad it did.

 

And no, they don't have an online cart to order from. You have to either send them an email, or do what I think is best...call them in that 3.5hour window that they are open M - F and talk to Bradley on the phone directly. I do make sure to have the PNs already jotted down and he is still being strict with no more than 3 different items being ordered at once rule... sigh..

 

 

[duckodb]

I just got off the phone with him and he said all the chips in the 5200 are tied together and an issue with any one of them sends a signal to the cpu to halt and causes that freeze up. So he told me he has them but to take the cpu out of my 7800 and put it in there and see if it fixes it, 5200 and 7800 have the exact same cpu he said. So I’m taking my 7800 apart now and may end up with a broke 7800 to go with the other one lol.

[+-^CrossBow^-]

10 minutes ago, duckodb said:

I just got off the phone with him and he said all the chips in the 5200 are tied together and an issue with any one of them sends a signal to the cpu to halt and causes that freeze up. So he told me he has them but to take the cpu out of my 7800 and put it in there and see if it fixes it, 5200 and 7800 have the exact same cpu he said. So I’m taking my 7800 apart now and may end up with a broke 7800 to go with the other one lol.

Keep in mind that only early revisions of the 7800 have their chips in sockets though. So if your 7800 has all of those main ICs soldered down...best to order the replacement.

[duckodb]

21 minutes ago, -^CrossBow^- said:

Keep in mind that only early revisions of the 7800 have their chips in sockets though. So if your 7800 has all of those main ICs soldered down...best to order the replacement.

Yep that’s the case here, I took it apart and they’re soldered. I did pull the chip outta the 5200 pretty easy though. I was gonna just buy the thing to begin with and the guy acted like he didn’t wanna sell it to me unless I knew for sure what the problem was plus it didn’t meet their minimum order amount. So he’s sending me a pokey and those other two bigger chips that look like the cpu i forget what they were called and a new power switch for my 7800, the old one has to be wiggled around sometimes . Actually all the 7800 switches even though the other 3 work fine. I figure I’ll try the cpu and if the problem persists I’ll put the other chips in one at a time and see what fixes it, if none to he suggested trying a ram chip in each slot one at a time and see if one of those is bad. Lucky these things are in sockets.

[+-^CrossBow^-]

Well, I can tell you that a 5200 will start up and operate without the pokey installed. I've done it myself when testing them and forgetting to put it back in. But naturally no controller response and no audio but it will at least come up and work.

 

The other chips he had your order I will assume was the ANTIC and the GTIA since you said the Pokey.

 

BTW...hold onto that pokey. He only allows 1 pokey purchase per person...for life. I've not ordered one from him yet since I feel I need to keep that open for me for when I really need it.

 

[duckodb]

20 hours ago, -^CrossBow^- said:

Well, I can tell you that a 5200 will start up and operate without the pokey installed. I've done it myself when testing them and forgetting to put it back in. But naturally no controller response and no audio but it will at least come up and work.

 

The other chips he had your order I will assume was the ANTIC and the GTIA since you said the Pokey.

 

BTW...hold onto that pokey. He only allows 1 pokey purchase per person...for life. I've not ordered one from him yet since I feel I need to keep that open for me for when I really need it.

 

Yes that’s the other 2. The 2 port came today and I hooked up and and so far it actually works fine, it’s in rougher shape , scratched up and the controller compartment door hinges are broke but it hasn’t froze up or had any weird graphics or sound yet. Isn’t that a daisy lol?