shadowkn55 Posted September 27, 2015 Share Posted September 27, 2015 Yeah..Gunlord is a retro style game with a multiplatform release and between a $200 (DC) or $1200 (NG) price tag and Tiny Knight isn't complete yet to the best of my knowledge. I would hope that the system would offer Gunlord (or whatever else is as good) for $60, or the previously stated higher price point for their carts. Games that were made so recently as these I, personally, would classify as 'retro style' games, although they do target older systems, they are made like the games from twenty years ago. They are not the actual games from twenty years ago. If I wanted to play those I would just do that on those older systems. I think that offering adapters that enable older carts to play is cute and all but it muddles the selling point of the system. Playing modern retro-style games on a classic medium is what made it appeal to me. Throwing in adapters to play NES games just makes it look like they are trying to compete against something like the Retron5 or other emulation systems. I hope it makes it somehow, but it looks like people are leaping like rats from a sinking ship. I saw it as an opportunity to avoid the tiny Android screens and DLC, internet-fused modern retro game. To play one of those great games on a cartridge with a Sega six button pad, no load times, and on a nice big CRT screen would be excellent. Gunlord isn't a retro styled game. It IS is a retro game. It natively runs on a Neo-Geo and they made a Dreamcast port of it. I don't remember the price tags being that high. $50 for DC and ~$500 for MVS. But you do have a point, it wasn't released 20 years ago but at the same time it still runs on the same hardware from 20 years ago. To me, retro style means looks like 8/16 bit but runs natively on modern hardware. If it's new development on old hardware, well I don't really have a name for it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadowkn55 Posted September 27, 2015 Share Posted September 27, 2015 Air cooled?? That's it, I'm out. I was going to fund this beast back when I thought it would be liquid nitrogen cooled... how else can you keep the retro-ness from causing a full thermonuclear meltdown in your living room?? But air cooled? Pfft, forget it. If you turn down the Blast Processing a notch, you should be able to get by. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
triverse Posted September 27, 2015 Share Posted September 27, 2015 Yeah..Gunlord is a retro style game with a multiplatform release and between a $200 (DC) or $1200 (NG) price tag and Tiny Knight isn't complete yet to the best of my knowledge. I would hope that the system would offer Gunlord (or whatever else is as good) for $60, or the previously stated higher price point for their carts. Games that were made so recently as these I, personally, would classify as 'retro style' games, although they do target older systems, they are made like the games from twenty years ago. They are not the actual games from twenty years ago. If I wanted to play those I would just do that on those older systems. I think that offering adapters that enable older carts to play is cute and all but it muddles the selling point of the system. Playing modern retro-style games on a classic medium is what made it appeal to me. Throwing in adapters to play NES games just makes it look like they are trying to compete against something like the Retron5 or other emulation systems. I hope it makes it somehow, but it looks like people are leaping like rats from a sinking ship. I saw it as an opportunity to avoid the tiny Android screens and DLC, internet-fused modern retro game. To play one of those great games on a cartridge with a Sega six button pad, no load times, and on a nice big CRT screen would be excellent. These prices could be due to money exchange rates. Papa, what country are you in? Is it the USA? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StarPath Posted September 27, 2015 Share Posted September 27, 2015 (edited) What i dont get is why do the cartridges still have to be real cartridge pcbs? Why don't they simply have a pcb with edge connector pins and flash memory? I would imagine this would be cost effective and could bring the price of the games down to $20 which is pretty close to the average cost of an indie game. The reason people are willing to pay so much for those neo geo games is because they are Grade-A, developed by a genius team of highly experienced programmers and not low-level indie developers, and because they will definitely hold or increase their value. The games on the retro VGS will never be any of those. Edited September 27, 2015 by StarPath Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob_ocelot Posted September 27, 2015 Share Posted September 27, 2015 Gunlord isn't a retro styled game. It IS a retro game. It natively runs on a Neo-Geo and they made a Dreamcast port of it. I don't remember the price tags being that high. $50 for DC and ~$500 for MVS. But you do have a point, it wasn't released 20 years ago but at the same time it still runs on the same hardware from 20 years ago. To me, retro style means looks like 8/16 bit but runs natively on modern hardware. If it's new development on old hardware, well I don't really have a name for it. We used to call games like that 'homebrews'. Then someone decided they could do this full time and thus the term 'commercial homebrew' was born. My first impression of Gunlord -- "Wow someone ripped off Turrican so much it hurts, right down to apeing Huelsbeck's music". However, I appreciate what Gunlord represents in the 'old way' of game design so I can't harp on it too much. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shiru Posted September 27, 2015 Share Posted September 27, 2015 What i dont get is why do the cartridges still have to be real cartridge pcbs? Why don't they simply have a pcb with an edge connector and flash memory. I would imagine this would be cost effective and could bring the price of the games down to $20 which is pretty close to the average cost of an indie game. These days it totally should be done this way. Considering ARM CPU, expected game data sizes, and other things, it will load code and data into the RAM to execute it anyway. Even N64 didn't run code directly off the cart memory, for the most part. Heck, just take Compact Flash, and you have ready-made cartridge with nice fast and simple parallel interface, totally oldschool yet still available, and that's actually became true retro these days. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadowkn55 Posted September 27, 2015 Share Posted September 27, 2015 What i dont get is why do the cartridges still have to be real cartridge pcbs? Why don't they simply have a pcb with an edge connector and flash memory. I would imagine this would be cost effective and could bring the price of the games down to $20 which is pretty close to the average cost of an indie game. Because that would be the Neo-Geo X and we all know how well that turned out. I remember reading somewhere in Console Wars (awesome book by the way) that Nintendo was producing carts for publishers at the low low cost of $20 in 1985 money. Granted it's gone down a little since then but asking $20 for the game in physical cartridge format is grinding it a little. The minimum order quantity has gone down substantially (virtually zero thanks to cheap flash memory) but there are still setup fees involved. The issue with indie games is that there is a wide sprectrum of quality amongst them. I can see some of the smaller (in scope) games fetching $20 while others like Axiom Verge commanding $50-$70. Remember, Chrono Trigger was $70 when it came out and was worth every penny. Small team size doesn't preclude you from being AAA, it just means it'll take longer from start to finish especially if you're a one-man army (i.e. Axiom Verge) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+madman Posted September 27, 2015 Share Posted September 27, 2015 Day 9 (09/27): 191 backers, $65145 raised, +$225 Mid-day update: 190 backers, $63,925. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CGQuarterly Posted September 27, 2015 Share Posted September 27, 2015 Um... not to get into a thing but that's not true at all. Gunlord was like 60 bucks on the DC (or less; more like 50ish plus shipping).I don't know about the Neo version; that was probably crazy expensive. The non-LE version of Gunlord on the DC was less than $40 shipped. I know because I bought it straight from NG:Dev. The MVS "regular edition" is about $450. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadowkn55 Posted September 27, 2015 Share Posted September 27, 2015 These days it totally should be done this way. Considering ARM CPU, expected game data sizes, and other things, it will load code and data into the RAM to execute it anyway. Even N64 didn't run code directly off the cart memory, for the most part. Heck, just take Compact Flash, and you have ready-made cartridge with nice fast and simple parallel interface, totally oldschool yet still available, and that's actually became true retro these days. If you're talking about flash carts like the everdrive, those don't stream the data directly from the removable media either. They copy it to flash memory before handing off control to the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadowkn55 Posted September 27, 2015 Share Posted September 27, 2015 The non-LE version of Gunlord on the DC was less than $40 shipped. I know because I bought it straight from NG:Dev. The MVS "regular edition" is about $450. It was either 349 or 350 euros for the mvs version. Either way, the exchange rate at the time was like ass but I remember all new purchases came to a screeching halt after buying it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
triverse Posted September 27, 2015 Share Posted September 27, 2015 (edited) Huh, according to some plugins I use on RGM say that the interview with the RETRO VGS team is written at about an 8th to 11th grade level. I wonder if that is a nice way of calling me stupid since I copied it over? Oh, and just over an hour left till it is available. Edited September 27, 2015 by triverse 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dashv Posted September 27, 2015 Share Posted September 27, 2015 These days it totally should be done this way. Considering ARM CPU, expected game data sizes, and other things, it will load code and data into the RAM to execute it anyway. Even N64 didn't run code directly off the cart memory, for the most part. Heck, just take Compact Flash, and you have ready-made cartridge with nice fast and simple parallel interface, totally oldschool yet still available, and that's actually became true retro these days. That's a pretty good idea. Just re-label Compact Flash Cards. Instant Cartridges. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CGQuarterly Posted September 27, 2015 Share Posted September 27, 2015 Huh, according to some plugins I use on RGM say that the interview with the RETRO VGS team is written at about an 8th to 11th grade level. I know this is totally OT, but what plugin does THAT? Are you using Wordpress? I'd be curious to see what it thinks of my writing... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenixdownita Posted September 27, 2015 Share Posted September 27, 2015 (edited) If you're talking about flash carts like the everdrive, those don't stream the data directly from the removable media either. They copy it to flash memory before handing off control to the game. No he means CF https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CompactFlash Which are basically IDE interfaces. EDIT: funny thing is that they were devised to be used with PCMCIA devices, and for the chronicle the NeoGeo Memory Card is a PCMCIA device! Edited September 27, 2015 by phoenixdownita Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenixdownita Posted September 27, 2015 Share Posted September 27, 2015 It was either 349 or 350 euros for the mvs version. Either way, the exchange rate at the time was like ass but I remember all new purchases came to a screeching halt after buying it. Not sure I get this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
triverse Posted September 27, 2015 Share Posted September 27, 2015 Yeah, I use Wordpress for all of my sites. The plugin is this one: https://wordpress.org/plugins/word-statistics-plugin/ Works great. I also have word count plugins, article tips, notes, and a bunch of other custom stuff installed that help write larger articles, talk with the rest of the team and easily see what is coming up from the other writers. 57 minutes and counting... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenixdownita Posted September 27, 2015 Share Posted September 27, 2015 Voila: http://atariage.com/forums/topic/235430-how-has-this-not-been-posted-yet-retro-vgs/?p=3324028 Hahaha ... I hadn't seen that it was actually a comment from John Carlsen that confirmed the 32X cable. That's a(nother) pretty dumb mistake for their hardware "guru" to make. Yay, I didn't dream of it. The guru has spoken, "thou shall use a 32X cable for SVideo" .... somehow ... maybe ... we'll see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadowkn55 Posted September 27, 2015 Share Posted September 27, 2015 (edited) Not sure I get this. It means I used up several months of gaming budget on one go. It did teach me one thing though. I can go through several months buying aboslutely nothing and the sun will still rise the next day. Edited September 27, 2015 by shadowkn55 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StopDrop&Retro Posted September 27, 2015 Share Posted September 27, 2015 Air cooled?? That's it, I'm out. I was going to fund this beast back when I thought it would be liquid nitrogen cooled... how else can you keep the retro-ness from causing a full thermonuclear meltdown in your living room?? But air cooled? Pfft, forget it. Actually, the cooling is one of the most interesting parts because I highly suspect that it's part of what John is trying to patent. In the RGR podcast he talks about using convective heat transfer and says it'll be part of the "trick hardware" in the RVGS. You'll also notice that in the "prototype" video, he also takes time to mention "it keeps cool without a fan" or something like that. If he's trying to protect a patent on a type of convection for cooling the system, that has to be one of the dumbest ideas I've ever heard. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenixdownita Posted September 27, 2015 Share Posted September 27, 2015 (edited) It means I used up several months of gaming budget on one go. I see, anyone knows why the NG:Dev.Team releases on MVS are so fu**ing expensive? Beside the customer base gauging (NG fans will spend absurd amounts anyway), is there any real reason to be so expensive? Edited September 27, 2015 by phoenixdownita Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaybird3rd Posted September 27, 2015 Share Posted September 27, 2015 Mid-day update: 190 backers, $63,925. Up to 191 backers and $63,935 $63,461 now, in case anyone's counting. Lots of tiny pledges coming in throughout the day, but they've lost some big ones, so they're still down $1,210 $1,682 for the day. As others pointed out, they seem to be hoping for a surge of pledges on 10/1. (EDIT: Figures updated @ 3:45PM CST) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
triverse Posted September 27, 2015 Share Posted September 27, 2015 I see, anyone knows why the NG:Dev.Team releases on AES are so fu**ing expensive? Beside the customer base gauging (NG fans will spend absurd amounts anyway), is there any real reason to be so expensive? I am waiting on word about an interview with them, I can ask them about this if they grant the interview. After this RVGS interview though, I am not sure they will be interested in talking to me (knowing the RVGS will be at least mentioned). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elmer Posted September 27, 2015 Share Posted September 27, 2015 (edited) If he's trying to protect a patent on a type of convection for cooling the system, that has to be one of the dumbest ideas I've ever heard. Perhaps we should start a guessing game over what he's going to try to patent! My money would be on the system for mixing the two video streams from the FPGA and the ARM's GPU. They mentioned it in their specs (when they were still posted) ... Audio/Video Output Resolution: up to 1920 × 1080 from media processor and/or FPGA; media processor may overlay, upscale, and otherwise process video from FPGA Memory 1 MiB shared DMA buffer Kevtris didn't seem impressed with the "solution" when he mentioned it earlier in the thread, but IIRC, he said that John Carlsen was pretty proud of it. Edited September 27, 2015 by elmer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papa Posted September 27, 2015 Share Posted September 27, 2015 Gunlord isn't a retro styled game. It IS is a retro game. It natively runs on a Neo-Geo and they made a Dreamcast port of it. I don't remember the price tags being that high. $50 for DC and ~$500 for MVS. But you do have a point, it wasn't released 20 years ago but at the same time it still runs on the same hardware from 20 years ago. To me, retro style means looks like 8/16 bit but runs natively on modern hardware. If it's new development on old hardware, well I don't really have a name for it. I mean prices for it right now. Show me today where I can get those games for those prices. Gunlord was made in 2012, which makes it a retro style game. When retro games weren't retro it was because they were new and the style was relatively new. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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