StarPath Posted September 27, 2015 Share Posted September 27, 2015 Because that would be the Neo-Geo X and we all know how well that turned out. I remember reading somewhere in Console Wars (awesome book by the way) that Nintendo was producing carts for publishers at the low low cost of $20 in 1985 money. Granted it's gone down a little since then but asking $20 for the game in physical cartridge format is grinding it a little. The minimum order quantity has gone down substantially (virtually zero thanks to cheap flash memory) but there are still setup fees involved. The issue with indie games is that there is a wide sprectrum of quality amongst them. I can see some of the smaller (in scope) games fetching $20 while others like Axiom Verge commanding $50-$70. Remember, Chrono Trigger was $70 when it came out and was worth every penny. Small team size doesn't preclude you from being AAA, it just means it'll take longer from start to finish especially if you're a one-man army (i.e. Axiom Verge) The fact remains that there aren't that many indie games that are worth every penny of $40-$70. Of course there are going to be games on any platform that people are willing to pay more for than others but no way can you float an entire platform on only games that people are willing to shell out the big cash for. There simply aren't that many masterpiece indie games out there. If you make sure that the production costs of the cartridges are low, you can get a much larger library of marketable software. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenixdownita Posted September 27, 2015 Share Posted September 27, 2015 (edited) I mean prices for it right now. Show me today where I can get those games for those prices. Gunlord was made in 2012, which makes it a retro style game. When retro games weren't retro it was because they were new and the style was relatively new. http://www.ebay.com/itm/SEGA-Dreamcast-GUNLORD-JAPAN-GAME-Clean-Work-fully-63846-/181884661458?hash=item2a592baed2 There's a jap one at 65US$ + shipping. Edited September 27, 2015 by phoenixdownita Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shiru Posted September 27, 2015 Share Posted September 27, 2015 Actually, the cooling is one of the most interesting parts because I highly suspect that it's part of what John is trying to patent. In the RGR podcast he talks about using convective heat transfer and says it'll be part of the "trick hardware" in the RVGS. You'll also notice that in the "prototype" video, he also takes time to mention "it keeps cool without a fan" or something like that. The SoC he uses is intended for tablet PCs. Not like it meant to be used with a fan in the first place. And as it is an off-shelf-part that has been used in many devices by major vendors, sure all possible (if any) original cooling solutions has been patented already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaybird3rd Posted September 27, 2015 Share Posted September 27, 2015 When retro games weren't retro it was because they were new and the style was relatively new. I thought the style was old, which is what made it "retro" in the first place. Now I'm confused. But (semi-)seriously, I'm starting to wonder if it would have been a better strategy for the RVGS to bring Atari's unfinished "Jaguar 2" to fruition: a new Jaguar with updated specs and better graphics, but backward-compatible with the original. To fill out the starting library, negotiate a reissue of the best original Jaguar titles (the ones that are now selling at used car prices), hire a small team of developers to port popular games from other platforms in much the same way that Imagitec Design did for Atari, and work with established publishers like Songbird to produce new exclusive titles. Hey, it's not as if it could have turned out any worse! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadowkn55 Posted September 27, 2015 Share Posted September 27, 2015 I see, anyone knows why the NG:Dev.Team releases on AES are so fu**ing expensive? Beside the customer base gauging (NG fans will spend absurd amounts anyway), is there any real reason to be so expensive? They are amortizing the cost of developement over just a hand full of customers. The BOM for just the materials in low quantities can easily reach $100. The shear amount of memory used can easily explain it. Neo games average around 500mbit+ on the high end while some of my favorite snes rpgs with high meg counts are only 32mbit. You're looking at 16 times the amount of memory needed plus the large size of TWO pcbs doesn't come cheap and don't forget the fancy snaplock it comes in. That alone is a hefty cost to incur. Granted, there is the dreamcast version available but the amount of piracy going on there, I don't see them recouping the costs all too well with that platform. The dc version is always gimped in some way. The neo versions, as expensive as they are, are the definitive ways to play them. The arcade world is a completely different beast. In terms of cost and gameplay quality. They were designed to munch quarters so that had to grab your attention right off the bat and keep your attention so you pop in another. The successful games had an addictive quality to them so they tend to command a higher price in the second hand market because they still make money in a coin op setting. I used to think $50 was absurdly expensive for any cartridge based game until I starting playing arcade boards. $50 is considered on the low end of the budget for any worthwhile game. It's not uncommon for some highly sought after titles to be $200+ and they sell, easily. There are still a couple games like Metal Slug that you can get $50 that will provide hours of entertainment only because it's the mario/duck hunt of mvs. It was super successful and there are tons of copies out there. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CGQuarterly Posted September 27, 2015 Share Posted September 27, 2015 I am waiting on word about an interview with them, I can ask them about this if they grant the interview. After this RVGS interview though, I am not sure they will be interested in talking to me (knowing the RVGS will be at least mentioned). I seriously doubt that this RVGS stuff is going to have any impact on NG:Dev Team, and doubt that they would mind talking about it. The Neo scene is their bread & butter, and based on the size of the RVGS thread on the Neo forums, they don't care much about this thing. I mean prices for it right now. Show me today where I can get those games for those prices. Gunlord was made in 2012, which makes it a retro style game. When retro games weren't retro it was because they were new and the style was relatively new. Austin had a DC copy of the game for sale here in the marketplace as recently as a few days ago. Not sure if it sold. He wanted somewhere around $75 for it, but it was the LE edition with the soundtrack disc (so not a bad deal at all in my opinion). NG:Dev also recently opened up another round of Gunlord reprint orders, at 399 Euros. I think they sold out, though. But they keep doing reprint runs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadowkn55 Posted September 27, 2015 Share Posted September 27, 2015 I mean prices for it right now. Show me today where I can get those games for those prices. Gunlord was made in 2012, which makes it a retro style game. When retro games weren't retro it was because they were new and the style was relatively new. Right here. You can still get them direct from the developers. I hear this is the last time they are doing mvs reprints though. http://www.ngdevdirect.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CGQuarterly Posted September 27, 2015 Share Posted September 27, 2015 They are amortizing the cost of developement over just a hand full of customers. The BOM for just the materials in low quantities can easily reach $100. The shear amount of memory used can easily explain it. Neo games average around 500mbit+ on the high end while some of my favorite snes rpgs with high meg counts are only 32mbit. You're looking at 16 times the amount of memory needed plus the large size of TWO pcbs doesn't come cheap and don't forget the fancy snaplock it comes in. That alone is a hefty cost to incur. Don't forget about the wooden cartridge shells. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadowkn55 Posted September 27, 2015 Share Posted September 27, 2015 (edited) The fact remains that there aren't that many indie games that are worth every penny of $40-$70. Of course there are going to be games on any platform that people are willing to pay more for than others but no way can you float an entire platform on only games that people are willing to shell out the big cash for. There simply aren't that many masterpiece indie games out there. If you make sure that the production costs of the cartridges are low, you can get a much larger library of marketable software. Of course. Only the ones that show their mettle can withstand having a proposed cartridge format release. I also don't go out and buy every single indie cause it's cheap. My budget is still selective so only the ones that get me interested get my money. Having said that, I do try to support devs that release in formats for a classic system to encourage to keep doing what they are doing. And not all the AAA studios we know now pumped out masterpieces from day one. There were "indie" at one point too. The juggernaut we now know as Square-Enix was putting fairly mediocre games early on (as Square) until Final Fantasy came out. It takes trials and tribulations to produce a work of art. As long as indie devs aren't putting out shovelware, I'll give them a fair shake and watch their saga unfold. Don't forget about the wooden cartridge shells. I have exactly 3 prototype omega cart shells and 3 ngdev games with wooden shells. The math works out nicely. Edited September 27, 2015 by shadowkn55 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
triverse Posted September 27, 2015 Share Posted September 27, 2015 Okay, no video on this one. Every encoding of it ends up butchering it to hell and back. Either the first 20 minutes are cut or there are 10+ minute blank spots in the video for some reason. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoulBlazer Posted September 27, 2015 Share Posted September 27, 2015 Does it really make sense to patent something these days? Even more so for one guy and a small hardly there company? It's not like he invented something that will change the world. I just don't get it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StarPath Posted September 27, 2015 Share Posted September 27, 2015 I thought the style was old, which is what made it "retro" in the first place. Now I'm confused. But (semi-)seriously, I'm starting to wonder if it would have been a better strategy for the RVGS to bring Atari's unfinished "Jaguar 2" to fruition: a new Jaguar with updated specs and better graphics, but backward-compatible with the original. To fill out the starting library, negotiate a reissue of the best original Jaguar titles (the ones that are now selling at used car prices), hire a small team of developers to port popular games from other platforms in much the same way that Imagitec Design did for Atari, and work with established publishers like Songbird to produce new exclusive titles. Hey, it's not as if it could have turned out any worse! The best strategy would have been to compete with hyperkin and create the ultimate FPGA jaguar clone also capable of running roms through various cores for other consoles. They could have re-released Defender 2000 at launch and included Tempest 2000 as a pack-in game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadowkn55 Posted September 27, 2015 Share Posted September 27, 2015 The best strategy would have been to compete with hyperkin and create the ultimate FPGA jaguar clone also capable of running roms through various cores for other consoles. They could have re-released Defender 2000 at launch and included Tempest 2000 as a pack-in game. I kinda thought that was the original intention of it. Why else would you throw around terms like emulation cores? If I'm going to progam an snes game, I'll put it in native snes format because the install base is already there. Writing something in rvgs format with an snes wrapper inside doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenixdownita Posted September 27, 2015 Share Posted September 27, 2015 (edited) Something else a little awkward on wikipedia about Steve Woita linked games pages (no intention of smearing him, again just some PR that didn't happen): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Woita check the linked games: Atari time https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quadrun "This is one of the rarest games from Atari, as only approximately 10,000 were initially made. According to programmer Steve Woita, the game was play-tested by a group of young girls. They did not like the game and found it too difficult, leading Atari to not distribute the game heavily." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taz_(video_game) just read it, not very flattering. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asterix_(1983_video_game) same as above, port with changed sprite https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garfield_(Atari_game) cancelled Sega time https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kid_Chameleon_(video_game) ok this seems much better than the rest (named as designer and programmer) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sonic_the_Hedgehog_Spinball not even mentioned as part of the team https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sonic_the_Hedgehog_2 not mentioned as part of the team I think they should really work on improving the public perception, it just looks underwhelming in spite of the fact that he may or may not have been instrumental in those games. I do not know mister Woita and everyone agrees he is a very nice guy, someone please fix the wiki a little. Edited September 27, 2015 by phoenixdownita Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Algus Posted September 27, 2015 Share Posted September 27, 2015 Does it really make sense to patent something these days? Even more so for one guy and a small hardly there company? It's not like he invented something that will change the world. I just don't get it. If he's only ever done big time corporate work and never run a small business, he might not be experienced with the differences between the two. I could certainly see how a corporate lifer, especially an engineer that hasn't had to handle some of the financial aspects, might fall into that trap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CGQuarterly Posted September 27, 2015 Share Posted September 27, 2015 Okay, no video on this one. Every encoding of it ends up butchering it to hell and back. Either the first 20 minutes are cut or there are 10+ minute blank spots in the video for some reason. What video editing software are you using? If you want to give me the audio file and whatever images you want to use with it, I can edit and encode the video for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadowkn55 Posted September 27, 2015 Share Posted September 27, 2015 What video editing software are you using? If you want to give me the audio file and whatever images you want to use with it, I can edit and encode the video for you. Lies. He just wants an advance screening before everyone else. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
triverse Posted September 27, 2015 Share Posted September 27, 2015 I was using Movie Maker on Windows. I know, not the best but my other software (Virtual Dub and AviDemux won't let me mix images with audio). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CGQuarterly Posted September 27, 2015 Share Posted September 27, 2015 I was using Movie Maker on Windows. I know, not the best but my other software (Virtual Dub and AviDemux won't let me mix images with audio). OK. Well, I'm using FCPX which doesn't have such limitations, so let me know if you want some help. If not, that's totally cool, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadowkn55 Posted September 27, 2015 Share Posted September 27, 2015 I was using Movie Maker on Windows. I know, not the best but my other software (Virtual Dub and AviDemux won't let me mix images with audio). Ever dabble with avisynth? (do people still even use that?) It's pretty powerful if you can script and can probably do what you need. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thierry Henry Posted September 27, 2015 Share Posted September 27, 2015 Does it really make sense to patent something these days? Even more so for one guy and a small hardly there company? It's not like he invented something that will change the world. I just don't get it. I'm going to go ahead and say that, IMO, there's nothing "to get". There isn't anything to patent. They have zero, zilch, nada. That vid was meant just to appease in any way possible. That whole thing played out like parody tech video. If I didn't know any better...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
triverse Posted September 27, 2015 Share Posted September 27, 2015 (edited) Bear with me, there is a problem with the scheduling of this article (it should have went live 5 minutes ago). http://retrogamingmagazine.com/2015/09/27/rgm-interview-with-retro-vgs-team-unofficial-copy-from-audio-interview/ Edited September 27, 2015 by triverse 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtariNerd Posted September 27, 2015 Share Posted September 27, 2015 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vX2J6mceWic Surprised at the lack of Shatner in this thread. Needs some irrelevent cheese factor. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StopDrop&Retro Posted September 27, 2015 Share Posted September 27, 2015 Listening to it right now! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shiru Posted September 27, 2015 Share Posted September 27, 2015 Something else a little awkward on wikipedia about Steve Woita linked games pages (no intention of smearing him, again just some PR that didn't happen): That's seems to be just the trend about RVGS team members. They're constantly calling loud names and putting things in a way that makes it look impressive, such as their pro background. But when you're looking up the facts, not just their words, it turns out to be less significant. A guy who worked on Sonic 2 - that's a 'wow', but a 'project assistant' in the last two weeks (of the whole year, so game was like 100% done at the moment) is not so much; a guy who is a programmer of Sonic Spinball is a 'wow' too, but one who was moved off his own project in order to assist the other five programmers during the crunch time is a bit less again. It is more of name dropping. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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