Keatah Posted August 16, 2015 Share Posted August 16, 2015 Do we really need more than a couple of MB at most for a good retrogame? And some of the best games of the time were less than 1MB! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sh3-rg Posted August 16, 2015 Share Posted August 16, 2015 Do we really need more than a couple of MB at most for a good retrogame? And some of the best games of the time were less than 1MB! Pffft! This is the RVGS - what's it got to do with retro games? It's a hardware platform for buying indies in a box isn't it? Because having things in boxes that look like cartridges for a machine that looks like a console is perfect for hipster fuck games that are pretending to be retro by giving us all the "pixels". 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PlaysWithWolves Posted August 16, 2015 Share Posted August 16, 2015 Do we really need more than a couple of MB at most for a good retrogame? And some of the best games of the time were less than 1MB! Shovelknight reportedly weighs in at far above 48MB (158MB or more); as likely does almost any 16/32-bit console CD game, I'd imagine. So if they wish to pursue such a game they need a way to make it affordable for their system. It seems like a reasonable way to handle large games without needing a CD attachment or expensive carts. They could still use the 100-year memory carts for smaller games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GroovyBee Posted August 16, 2015 Share Posted August 16, 2015 They don't appear to have heard of NAND flash - gotta love the marketing BS. You could make a 256M cart (using 128M parts) for less than $8 in quantity. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+madman Posted August 16, 2015 Share Posted August 16, 2015 This whole "100 years" thing is all BS anyway. In 5 years nobody will care about this joke of a system, let alone 100. I think it was sh3 that pointed this out earlier, but they keep focusing on ridiculous details of the console rather than what's important. Limited colors! Wait, NEW limited colors! Physical media! Boxes! 100 year flash! Mini disks! OEM Chinese knock-off Wii controller! DB-9 ports!!!! Almost nothing about anything that matters: Games that are fun to play. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+remowilliams Posted August 16, 2015 Share Posted August 16, 2015 Cynical attempt to sell 'retro' to hipster douchebags, cynical attempt to cash in on the worst of collector limited edition neuroses, or a fundraiser for coke and hookers? You decide! 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GroovyBee Posted August 16, 2015 Share Posted August 16, 2015 Games that are fun to play. Oh... you mean those fun games that predominantly have one texture for the walls and poor level design. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andromeda Stardust Posted August 16, 2015 Share Posted August 16, 2015 (edited) WTF, now they are talking about using mini disks?? Aren't those minidisc fragile? you could break the disc if the cart housing is dropped or thrown. Also disc = load times. PCBs are indestructible. Also how do we know the flash tech lasts 100+ years if it isn't that old? Multiple gigabyte chips are available for cheap... Edited August 16, 2015 by stardust4ever 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+madman Posted August 16, 2015 Share Posted August 16, 2015 Aren't those minidisc fragile? you could break the disc if the cart housing is dropped or thrown. Also disc = load times. PCBs are indestructible. Also how do we know the flash tech lasts 100+ years if it isn't that old? Multiple gigabyte chips are available for cheap... I can't imagine they mean the actual old Minidisc technology, I was a fan of it at the time (and after its death) as an alternative to cassettes, but optical technology has advanced greatly. They didn't say anything more specific than "mini disks" so it's anyone's guess I suppose. Either way, that would involve some sort of consumable parts be it laser and or motor. I assume there is science behind chip life expectancy, I just don't know what that is. Just like there are ways to calculate MTBF on new devices. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+CyranoJ Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 A 1gb usb stick is peanuts and you can back it up. This whole project smells of piss poor design with no thought or planning... Or... Scam. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keatah Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 (edited) Aren't those minidisc fragile? you could break the disc if the cart housing is dropped or thrown. Also disc = load times. PCBs are indestructible. Also how do we know the flash tech lasts 100+ years if it isn't that old? Multiple gigabyte chips are available for cheap... Minidiscs and motors.. Ain't gonna last no 20 years! Not in a gaming environment where things are USED! I recall some youtube video a few years ago. Some kids are testing a VCS cart to destruction. Shooting it 20 meters in the air, freezing it, boiling it, running it over. Hitting it with a hammer and bat. It only gave up the ghost when the plastic shell was broken away and the chip+board got snapped in half. I can attest to the durability of those because we used them as skates. And I took one in the bathtub with me. And I had one buried in the yard for some umpteen years. I can't imagine they mean the actual old Minidisc technology, I was a fan of it at the time (and after its death) as an alternative to cassettes, but optical technology has advanced greatly. They didn't say anything more specific than "mini disks" so it's anyone's guess I suppose. Either way, that would involve some sort of consumable parts be it laser and or motor. I assume there is science behind chip life expectancy, I just don't know what that is. Just like there are ways to calculate MTBF on new devices. There IS a science behind memory chip technology lifespan. Some last 5 years, some are good for 100+, some even come with warnings that you're to use it only as temporary storage. There's a lot of misinformation and mfgs don't like to talk about this topic. The masked ROMS and fusible PROMS will last the longest, 100 years+. Much more if you care for them gently. Flash? Well, the charge leaks away in any amount of time, from 6 months to 20 years. Depends on the geometry and charge detectors for the cells. For all practical purposes, the electrons just kinda go away. I don’t know what kind of flash chips they’re using. How they’re qualified.. None of that. But the lower the density the longer the life. Edited August 17, 2015 by Keatah 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+rdemming Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 Minidiscs and motors.. Ain't gonna last no 20 years! Not in a gaming environment where things are USED! That must be the reason why my JaguarCD is still working after almost 20 years 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keatah Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 Your jag was built 20 years ago. RVGS is being built today - with crap parts that don't last no 5 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andromeda Stardust Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 And I had one buried in the yard for some umpteen years. Did it happen to be a Eee-Tee cart? Or Pacman? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keatah Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 No I don't remember what it was. It was one of the first 20 or something like that. No pic on the label. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roland p Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 Do we really need more than a couple of MB at most for a good retrogame? And some of the best games of the time were less than 1MB!True. There is nothing wrong with limitations. Limitations encourage creativity (And a cheaper, less complicated system). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keatah Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 Yes, but there's a difference. Between artificially imposed limits and limits of technology that is considered top-of-the-line. Back in the day the VCS had near state-of-the-art consumer-grade electronics. And it was true heartfelt challenge and exploration of the frontier to push that boundary as best as one could. Today if you impose limits in console hardware the developers say ahhfuckit and badmouth the system. The "press", or what passes for it nowadays, calls it last years has-been tech. Why can't you add this? Why can't it support this this and this. Why did those engineers slack off and not make it do this and include that. Goddamned lazy asses that don't unnerstan'nuthin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roland p Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 (edited) A quote about the smaller discs of the gamecube: In the end, they cannot recoup their investment in the game. So in a way, the smaller disc is a message from Nintendo that you dont need to fill out the capacity of a normal sized DVD disc. If we want to make larger software, then we just make the game on two or three discs. https://dromble.wordpress.com/2014/01/07/dolphin-tale-story-of-gamecube/ This sounds like an artifically imposed limitation. I think a 'retro' system should do exactly the same. And it's not completely artificial, if you wan't to make it cheap and affordable (which is most of the times a design goal). Edit: But indeed, today, everything is cheap, and very powerful processors are available for low prices. It's probably more expensive to design something with a 6502 or a 68000 than the latest SOC ARM whatever. Edited August 17, 2015 by roland p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andromeda Stardust Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 (edited) Wrong thread, sorry. Edited August 17, 2015 by stardust4ever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PlaysWithWolves Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 It does seem strange to have such a limitation when a handheld game system (3DS) has cartridges that are gigabytes. It's almost like some of the decisions force an artificial limit of 32-bit instead of designing the system around desired retail cost. After all, this is a step back from even the N64 or Jag. I'll grant that I'm not a hardware guy, and perhaps a true spiritual successor (not clone) to cart-based consoles would end up being cost-prohibitive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PlaysWithWolves Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 Not sure if anyone here is interested in asking them directly about the system, but it looks like they'll have a panel in a couple weeks at Game On Expo: If you are in the Southwest be sure to plan on attending the Game On Expo, coming up on August 28-30 in Phoenix/Mesa AZ. We will also have a RETRO VGS panel and would love to meet any of you that can attend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete5125 Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 Looks like another game is to be announced for part of the RETRO VGS Launch titles. I am looking forward to this system, it will be the first kickstarter I will back. Even if the system is not successful there should be a good run of games for it, think they wanted 16-24 titles to start with. If this system takes off it would be very interesting from game console history and way better than the plug and play systems. Just think they can put the Atari flash back games on a Retro Cart instead of producing THE FLASH BACK system's, it was cool at first but now there up to like flashback system 9 or what ever and they all look the same with the same games. I know they soon they will stop numbering them and give it stupid names like "Flash Back 2000 same system with 2 new games" only $49.99. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete5125 Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 While I could see a cart made for the retro vgs that was 70 atari 2600 games on a cart. But them releasing atari flashbacks at walgreens and dollar general has been successfull mainly for the nostalgia...and a cheep complete gift...for a guy in his late 30s early 40s I am surprised they keep sselling.the sega one does good as well colecovision and intellivision not as much. I would guess the market is satiated with even a neo geo one on the market...unless Nintendo releases an nes multi system with cart slot. I would figure at games would need to let this Christmas be it for a couple years. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenixdownita Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 (edited) I don't understand this mini-disc nonsense, I thought they wanted to go cart only way for retro reasons, now if they go discs for space constraints may as well go USB-stick/SD-card and be done, at which point really all releases may as well be soft releases (you copy the file into your own USB/SD whatever) ... this way the "100 years" is guaranteed by someone keeping copies on whatever new tech we'll have in 100 years exactly how it is happening for rom dumps and flash based carts right now .... ohhh the irony. Regarding the mini-disc did they also buy the molds for the JagCD hence the perverse reasoning? Edited August 17, 2015 by phoenixdownita 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sh3-rg Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 Some serious competition? http://bit.ly/1Lhid66 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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