CZroe Posted April 23, 2019 Share Posted April 23, 2019 (edited) Man. I’ve had a ton of TG16/PCE stuff happening in the last few days. Guess I’ll just blog it all here. Mail day! I don’t think my po’ widdle PC Engine is going to like this... They’re ganging up on it! Figured I’d need another one to AV/RGBS mod for the PCE since I don’t have an IFU for it and the other is better-suited for the extra TG systems that don’t have a rear cover. If I ever get an IFU briefcase then I’ll just trim it to fit one of the other TG16s too. Sent my UGX-02 back to San Diego today. Replacement should be on the way soon. I still haven’t found my resistor kit for working on those Old Skool TurboPad replicas. It’s really unfortunate that you can’t just run to Radio Shack for a pack of 47k-ohm resistors anymore, and the only thing economical on Amazon that makes sense for me is a huge $55 set of SMDs and tools that I’m not really ready for right now. Just found out that brakes, rotors, alignment, and new wheel bearings are going to cost me an unexpected $1,000. I asked the seller with those $18.75 Old Skool replicas about getting more controllers at the same price and she replied saying she went back to order more from her supplier and there was a price change/update, so she “can't do the previous price” on more. Well, at least I’m getting those two. Combined with the one I already have and the two original controllers I’ll have 5 controllers for testing the fix with a multitap. Too bad only 3 will be the Old Skool controllers (wanted to demo with 5). Oh well! I should be getting Populous and Susana Oh Densetsu HuCards in the mail in a few days. Hope to play around with adding batteries to a Ten No Koe Bank and, for curiosity, Populous. Mostly just want to practice opening “fat” cards before I risk modding an Arcade Card Pro or something to work directly on a North American/Euro console. Not sure my Ten No Koe Bank card is actually on the way though, since I just noticed that it’s saying “refunded.” The seller just said he refunded some of my shipping costs after he combined shipping with that copy of Art of Fighting. Hopefully it’s on the way. No, I didn’t spend $36 on one 8BitDo NES30. That was four. Though they each come with a NES/SNES Classic Edition Retro Receiver, I’ll be pairing them with these $5 beauties from Fry’s Electronics... My brother picked up all 10 of them in the Atlanta area about a month ago. In anticipation of Micro Mages later this month, I plan to get all four NES30 controllers working with this... NES Sat doesn’t include the receiver but I already have one for my other NES Sat... I just don’t want to modify my only NES Sat with an alternate power source for four Retro Receivers. The rest of the NES Retro Receivers will be for the SNES multitap. http://nintendoage.com/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=31&threadid=185614 I’m 90% sure this will work after solving the power issue since they use the same firmware as the SNES Retro Receiver and the changelog shows they changed the button mapping for the RetroN5. Since my brother and I already had one NES30, this makes 5... 7 if you count the FC30 I & II set in that junk Famicom there. ...but that’s not really relevant to PCE/TG16. I do have some Genesis Retro Receivers on the way that I hope to use with Rattboi’s adapter for GEN2PCE. Someone needs to stop me! Osman Celimli (@tailchao), the creator of Rikki & Vikki for 7800 and Zakku for Lynx contacted me today about a possible trade involving TG16 RF modulators. We got to talking about his CD Stupid Card 4.0. That’s his region-free system card replacement that uses a modified Super System Card BIOS with extra RAM and his custom mapper to support homebrew, translations, etc. Yes, it will work on a NA/EURO console without an adapter. Anyway, I had no idea, but CD Stupid Card 4.0 also has a “linear mode” that maps the RAM like a normal ROM card. He never finished up the utility for building your own discs full of HuCard titles but disc-loading HuCard titles to CD Stupid Card 4.0 works for him (no need for a Turbo Everdrive). That means it would work as a Super System Card and run every HuCard except Ten No Koe Bank and Street Fighter II’ Champion Edition. Maybe we should implore him to finish/release this? Since Elmer here and David Shadoff are working on the TED UI and adding Ten No Koe Bank functionality, the TED will have that going for it, at least... and TED doesn’t need CD hardware, of course. Hmm... what else? Oh yeah: I screwed up. I saw a $70 as-is/untested TG16 on eBay that had no controller, rear cover, power supply, etc and charged $23 shipping, but the description said it also included a Turbo Booster Plus. It was very clearly written for this specific listing and not a copy/paste error, but there was no TurboBooster in the images... Plus or otherwise. I stupidly sent a message asking if it actually included a TurboBooster Plus. They “responded” by removing any mention of a TurboBooster... no explanation at all. Either it was an error or my message prompted them to check and they realized it was valuable. Doh! https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F264289367927 Well, that’s my PCE/TG16 exploits for the last few days. I’m headed to my workbench to check on Osman’s RF modulators now. Edited April 23, 2019 by CZroe 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sainrub Posted May 3, 2019 Share Posted May 3, 2019 to like this... They’re ganging up on it! Figured I’d need another one to AV/RGBS mod for the PCE since I don’t have an IFU for it and the other is better-suited for the extra TG systems that don’t have a rear cover. If I ever get an IFU briefcase then I’ll just trim it to fit one of the other TG16s too. Well, that’s my PCE/TG16 exploits for the last few days. I’m headed to my workbench to check on Osman’s RF modulators now. Haha! Cat is like get a load of this. I didn't know you could insert it from the front! I'm also planning to mod a Tennoko Bank 2 as well. What RGB amp do you use for your installs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CZroe Posted May 4, 2019 Share Posted May 4, 2019 (edited) Well, guys, I got my replacement UGX-02, and this time it worked: I had a good day with it but I I found that a good portion of my prepared images didn’t work so I spent most of that day finding them and fixing them. Unfortunately, that’s all I got, since it went right back to acting like the DOA unit: https://youtu.be/N9Fb-2i-FbI The creator seemed to imply that I might have damaged it by flipping the power off and back on again somewhat fast in that video, but that was to demonstrate that there was no boot menu (power was already on when the video starts) so the issue obviously came first! He said that he found a DMM and determined that digital 3.3v was shorted to ground on the first one so he asked me to see if it was recognized over USB and it wasn’t, which he says means the same thing has happened to this one. Only thing I can think of is that it is not TG16 compatible and my TG16 systems keep damaging it. Like SSDSys3, they never explicitly promised TG16 support. I hope he’s willing to give me another chance but, honestly, I don’t know what else I can do differently other than keeping it away from my TG16 systems. When it was working I did notice that the internal/virtual Super System Card function was unreliable with the TG16 so I used my Turbo Everdrive instead. Whatever was causing that could be damaging the unit but I had been using it with the PCE for most of the day. The virtual Super System Card seemed reliable with the PCE (worked fine). Eventually I found a couple games that didn’t seem to like the TG16+TED either so I had switched back to the PCE and had been using that all day when David Shadoff suggested that I check to see if the PSU was causing the TG16 issue. I had been using the original TG16 PSU interchangeably with a 2.5A adjustable voltage Radio Shack PSU (the same one a lot of people use with different tips for Duos, Turbo CD, etc). I wasn’t sure which PSU I was using when I experienced the issue so I getting ready to try the better, modern, PSU with the TG16 when it stopped working forever. No, it wasn’t the PSU that killed it. PSU specs are better than the original. Haha! Cat is like get a load of this. I didn't know you could insert it from the front! I'm also planning to mod a Tennoko Bank 2 as well. What RGB amp do you use for your installs? I’m hoping to adapt this one from Martin Hejnfelt: https://oshpark.com/shared_projects/qyVkkKLJ https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:3276632 It has CVBS and RGB with a Genesis-style mini-DIN so so I believe it will be suitable for HD Retrovision cables. Edited May 4, 2019 by CZroe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sainrub Posted May 4, 2019 Share Posted May 4, 2019 I’m hoping to adapt this one from Martin Hejnfelt: https://oshpark.com/shared_projects/qyVkkKLJ https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:3276632 It has CVBS and RGB with a Genesis-style mini-DIN so so I believe it will be suitable for HD Retrovision cables. Thank you for the links. I would love to see how you end up modding your Tennoko Banks. Good luck sorting out the UGX-02 dilemma as well. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CZroe Posted May 4, 2019 Share Posted May 4, 2019 (edited) Well, I finally got a SMD component assortment and replaced the Old Skool controller’s incorrect 330-ohm resistors with the proper 47k-ohm resistors. It now works with the multitap, but I just discovered a new issue: Turbo is wonky through the TurboTap. You only get one speed of turbo (low) and then the button doesn’t even respond on the higher speed. I ran Chris Covell’s PadTest and noticed that it was faster than the low speed should be and that a button set to high speed WOULD respond if you pressed it at the same time as the other button and that other button was set to low speed. Original pads work normally with turbo through the TurboTap. It has the same 74-series logic chips as a real controller so I have to assume this is another passive component or two with the wrong value. They seem perfect without the TurboTap. They’re a million times more useable now but it’s disappointing to see that it’s still not 100%. Thank you for the links. I would love to see how you end up modding your Tennoko Banks. Good luck sorting out the UGX-02 dilemma as well. Thanks! Edited May 4, 2019 by CZroe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybercylon Posted May 4, 2019 Share Posted May 4, 2019 I'm not sure why that would not work with a TG16. It is essentially the same as pc engine aside from more plastic, different controller ports, and the back is thicker, correct? The back being thicker is one reason why a TG16 is not "officially" listed for the Super SD System 3 (have to loosen the screws and put it in carefully.... the big hazard is the pins on the Tg16 getting bent and pushed in). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CZroe Posted May 4, 2019 Share Posted May 4, 2019 I'm not sure why that would not work with a TG16. It is essentially the same as pc engine aside from more plastic, different controller ports, and the back is thicker, correct? The back being thicker is one reason why a TG16 is not "officially" listed for the Super SD System 3 (have to loosen the screws and put it in carefully.... the big hazard is the pins on the Tg16 getting bent and pushed in).Yeah, but there could be signal issues and the like just from not being tested with the grossly-oversized PCB (in comparison to the PCE). For example, the UGX-02’s virtual Super System Card seemed to be causing issue with the TG16 but worked fine with the PCE. Using the Turbo Everdrive as a Super System Card with the UGX-02 and TG16 seemed to eliminate those issues for the specific games I checked though I think I encountered issues later (worked fine on the PCE). I didn’t get to thoroughly test to see if it was power supply-related or whatever since the unit just died before I could finish testing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybercylon Posted May 4, 2019 Share Posted May 4, 2019 I'll start here by asking a game capture question.... I plan to capture some video from the Super SD system 3 to show the differences between Framemeister and OSSC output. An issue with the Framemeister is that it can add noise to the RGB output. The OSSC gives a more colorful picture that is relatively free of noise. Capturing from a Framemeister is pretty straight forward (it is the main reason for having one). However, I have an Elgato HD 60 as my capture device (no money on the tree for that to change). The external Elgato devices won't accept a signal from the OSSC that is more than a 2x line double (480p). I tried to use the HDMI input on the Framemeister to placate the Elgato HD 60, but picture is zoomed in. I can fix that at 2x line double from the OSSC with a 75 % zoom on the Framemeister, but that gives me another 480p picture. I don't know what to fiddle with on either device to fix zoom issues at 3X or greater. Interestingly, someone posted a video using an xbox one HDMI input to placate the Elgato ( ). That does work, but can I find the audio plug to reroute the sound (no sound out... have to use the sound out from the OSSC to the Elgato)? Of course not. Nothing ever gets found in this house until I need to find something unrelated). Anyway, I'd rather use the Framemeister to placate the Elgato. Any tips would be helpful. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CZroe Posted May 5, 2019 Share Posted May 5, 2019 I'll start here by asking a game capture question.... I plan to capture some video from the Super SD system 3 to show the differences between Framemeister and OSSC output. An issue with the Framemeister is that it can add noise to the RGB output. The OSSC gives a more colorful picture that is relatively free of noise. Capturing from a Framemeister is pretty straight forward (it is the main reason for having one). However, I have an Elgato HD 60 as my capture device (no money on the tree for that to change). The external Elgato devices won't accept a signal from the OSSC that is more than a 2x line double (480p). I tried to use the HDMI input on the Framemeister to placate the Elgato HD 60, but picture is zoomed in. I can fix that at 2x line double from the OSSC with a 75 % zoom on the Framemeister, but that gives me another 480p picture. I don't know what to fiddle with on either device to fix zoom issues at 3X or greater. Interestingly, someone posted a video using an xbox one HDMI input to placate the Elgato (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gn5Z6g4_g9o). That does work, but can I find the audio plug to reroute the sound (no sound out... have to use the sound out from the OSSC to the Elgato)? Of course not. Nothing ever gets found in this house until I need to find something unrelated). Anyway, I'd rather use the Framemeister to placate the Elgato. Any tips would be helpful. Thanks. Yeah. Capture difficulties are a big reason why I’d hoped to get UGX-02. Wish I had gotten to see how my older Elgato HD (non-60) handles it. It’s supposed to handle 720p at 60FPS. Since 720p is a perfect integer scale of 240p it’s the perfect capture resolution so I didn’t feel the need for a better unit if it worked (still don’t know if it would have). Hopefully someone will have some advice on using the Framemeister to normalize the HDMI signal. I only have OSSC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Austin Posted May 5, 2019 Share Posted May 5, 2019 Anyway, I'd rather use the Framemeister to placate the Elgato. Any tips would be helpful. Thanks. The OSSC and Elgato don't generally play nice together and so your options are fairly limited. You should be able to do 5X but the top and bottom of the feed will be cut off. In the past I would just use that unless I was playing a game where important information is cut off. I have stopped using my OSSC in favor of the Framemeister's convenience and so my memory is a little foggy, but I am pretty sure I wasn't able to get the Elgato to pick up 3X or 4X from the OSSC. It'll give something along the lines of a, "Format not supported" message. Be careful when feeding it signals it doesn't like, because sometimes it'll lock up and you'll have to reboot your computer to fix it. In your case, what you probably want to do is run the OSSC into the Framemeister and use the 4X mode. You will be able to see the full capture, nothing will be cut off. Of course, that doesn't help when you want to do a side-by-side of the FM and OSSC, but it's at least a way to still use the OSSC in your capture setup. I don't know what zoom issues you are having with the Framemeister. Just turn off the zoom function completely and your game should display fine. I personally only use the zoom functionality when I'm using the Game Boy Interface software or the Super Game Boy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+GoldenWheels Posted May 5, 2019 Share Posted May 5, 2019 Too expensive by half (at least, it's $50-$60) but neat to see some new "official third party" aftermarket accessories coming for the Turbob. Third party controllers as were being shown above, now hyperkin is doing a booster. Not sure why you'd do them in green rather than black or orange, but hey....it exists. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybercylon Posted May 5, 2019 Share Posted May 5, 2019 The OSSC and Elgato don't generally play nice together and so your options are fairly limited. You should be able to do 5X but the top and bottom of the feed will be cut off. In the past I would just use that unless I was playing a game where important information is cut off. I have stopped using my OSSC in favor of the Framemeister's convenience and so my memory is a little foggy, but I am pretty sure I wasn't able to get the Elgato to pick up 3X or 4X from the OSSC. It'll give something along the lines of a, "Format not supported" message. Be careful when feeding it signals it doesn't like, because sometimes it'll lock up and you'll have to reboot your computer to fix it. In your case, what you probably want to do is run the OSSC into the Framemeister and use the 4X mode. You will be able to see the full capture, nothing will be cut off. Of course, that doesn't help when you want to do a side-by-side of the FM and OSSC, but it's at least a way to still use the OSSC in your capture setup. I don't know what zoom issues you are having with the Framemeister. Just turn off the zoom function completely and your game should display fine. I personally only use the zoom functionality when I'm using the Game Boy Interface software or the Super Game Boy. Thanks. I eventually did get 3x and 4x working from the OSSC through the Framemeister by doing a complete reset of the Framemeister. I must have left something at a setting that didn't sit well with the OSSC output. 5x does not work... zoom is off (meaning turned off), but the picture is at some weird resolution. 4x is good enough. The nice thing is that the better picture quality from the OSSC is maintained going through the HDMI in on the Framemeister. Yes... lag is added, but that is not important for capturing and comparing the two (The lag from the FM is not something I have noticed anyway). When I will make a video... who knows.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CZroe Posted May 5, 2019 Share Posted May 5, 2019 Too expensive by half (at least, it's $50-$60) but neat to see some new "official third party" aftermarket accessories coming for the Turbob. Third party controllers as were being shown above, now hyperkin is doing a booster. Not sure why you'd do them in green rather than black or orange, but hey....it exists. I think these are the ones RetroRGB/Bob was saying have no components inside and, thus, they could allow connected equipment to damage the console. If you don’t want to go full-on dbGrafx Booster / Engine Block then there are similar adapters from GameDoctorHK and others. If you don’t mind the component-less design then there are some easy DIY options can work just as well. I recently used some M-F DuPont connector breadboard jumpers and some RCA Cinch Balun connectors to test a PC Engine without having to solder or crimp anything: https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F272067963947 https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F253809380441 There are some pretty good designs on Thingiverse too: https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:2798597 Just slap the DuPont female connectors into the 3D printed shell and you’ve got yourself something every bit as good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybercylon Posted May 5, 2019 Share Posted May 5, 2019 (edited) Too expensive by half (at least, it's $50-$60) but neat to see some new "official third party" aftermarket accessories coming for the Turbob. Third party controllers as were being shown above, now hyperkin is doing a booster. Not sure why you'd do them in green rather than black or orange, but hey....it exists. I can't remember one of Bob's videos from retrorgb or one from Voultar, but there is very little in the way of components in that, and what is there is apparently not wired correctly, so this thing might damage your TG16/PCE. I am fuzzy on the details. And it is a hyperkin product. Never again..... Edit... CZroe beat me to it. But... again... a hyperkin product. Yuk. Edited May 5, 2019 by cybercylon 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CZroe Posted May 5, 2019 Share Posted May 5, 2019 (edited) I can't remember one of Bob's videos from retrorgb or one from Voultar, but there is very little in the way of components in that, and what is there is apparently not wired correctly, so this thing might damage your TG16/PCE. I am fuzzy on the details. And it is a hyperkin product. Never again..... It was Bob’s PCE/TG video from February. He said he talked to his friends and was relaying their concerns (dbElectronics or HD Retrovision). He might have been talking about random eBay adapters instead but I was definitely seeing the Hyperkin ones at the time. Also, the other one I see on eBay is GameDoctorHK, which looks a bit better (I see some components). Edited May 5, 2019 by CZroe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+GoldenWheels Posted May 5, 2019 Share Posted May 5, 2019 Well, I wouldn't use any of them myself (my Duo is all set) but good to know. I just like that things are getting made for the turbo by bigger companies--though it doesn't matter much if they are shite! Just gives me hope somebody better will take notice and make more. (I used to use a homemade cable on my TG16, the audio was crapola anyway. I used it briefly but went back to RF. Yeah, it wasn't good!) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DragonGrafx-16 Posted May 5, 2019 Share Posted May 5, 2019 Too expensive by half (at least, it's $50-$60) but neat to see some new "official third party" aftermarket accessories coming for the Turbob. Third party controllers as were being shown above, now hyperkin is doing a booster. Not sure why you'd do them in green rather than black or orange, but hey....it exists. Would that work with the PC Engine as well? It looks kinda silly but it would be better than the cable I have connected directly to the pins. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CZroe Posted May 5, 2019 Share Posted May 5, 2019 Would that work with the PC Engine as well? It looks kinda silly but it would be better than the cable I have connected directly to the pins.It will. Pinout is the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybercylon Posted May 6, 2019 Share Posted May 6, 2019 Would that work with the PC Engine as well? It looks kinda silly but it would be better than the cable I have connected directly to the pins. Depending on where you live and how much you want to spend, I would suggest this product if you only want to play Hucard games and don't care about the save feature that support them: https://stoneagegamer.com/engine-block-av-turbobooster.html Yes... $80 is expensive, but it supports RGB, composite, and S-video. I used to have one and it worked well for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CZroe Posted May 6, 2019 Share Posted May 6, 2019 Depending on where you live and how much you want to spend, I would suggest this product if you only want to play Hucard games and don't care about the save feature that support them: https://stoneagegamer.com/engine-block-av-turbobooster.html Yes... $80 is expensive, but it supports RGB, composite, and S-video. I used to have one and it worked well for me. Yes. It’s easily the best but it’s the exact same as the slightly-cheaper dbElectronics dbGrafx Booster, only with a plastics enclosure. It’s the only official way that HD Retrovision supports TG16/PCE. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DragonGrafx-16 Posted May 6, 2019 Share Posted May 6, 2019 I'll think I'll just stick with the cable for now. I plan to get a Duo in the future anyway. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybercylon Posted May 6, 2019 Share Posted May 6, 2019 Yes. It’s easily the best but it’s the exact same as the slightly-cheaper dbElectronics dbGrafx Booster, only with a plastics enclosure. It’s the only official way that HD Retrovision supports TG16/PCE. Yup.... Back then, I wanted a case and I can swing by Stone Age gamer (not always a good thing on my checkbook). I wonder if anyone has tried the HD retrovision cables with the Super SD System 3 to either a CRT or through the upscalers? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loafer Posted May 6, 2019 Share Posted May 6, 2019 Hey everyone, decided to sell my TG16 stuff (been sitting there for too many years doing it's best "dust collector" job). So I picked this system up so long ago, I'd forgotten what games I had. So reviewing my games, I came across "Legend of Hero Tonma". What the heck is that? Google.. WTF?? Can anyone tell me what happened for the value on a loose cart to go nuts like it has on this title? I mean I'm happy and all but jeesus. It certainly wasn't anywhere near that price when I got the system, now its the 2nd most valuable north American hucard! (wish it was boxed!) Doesn't mean much. Just because the book value is high doesn't mean someone will actually pay that much money for this game. But nice to dream! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybercylon Posted May 6, 2019 Share Posted May 6, 2019 One reason that the prices have gone insane is people are discovering the system for the first time, so the demand is high. I've seen lose commons go for $40 or even more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loafer Posted May 6, 2019 Share Posted May 6, 2019 One reason that the prices have gone insane is people are discovering the system for the first time, so the demand is high. I've seen lose commons go for $40 or even more. Murphy’s law or whatever usually has me on the wrong side of this, so feels weird I may actually benefit. I also have darkwing duck which seems to be another decently priced title. Go figure, but if one looks at it historically I’m still in the red lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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