NeoGeoNinja Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 (edited) The Saturn Version and the SNES version of all things are my go to's for NBA Jam action. SNES & MD versions, regardless of the graphical downgrades, are my fave versions of NBA JAM TE. They just play so damn well! Esp. the SNES. Also, I never was all that keen on the 'dramatic' scaling they used in the Arcades anyway, tbh. Kinda thought it looked a bit daft **Heresy** Edited June 22, 2015 by NeoGeoNinja 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schmudde Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 My original intent for this thread was to talk about games that are the most overhyped now among the jaguar community rather than when the system was released and during that era. Well... then... can it be anything other than BattleSphere? What Jaguar game has had more words devoted to it within the community? What Jaguar game is more expensive? In light of other successes (AvP, T2K, IS, Rayman), what hyped Jaguar game has had nearly no impact outside of the insular community? And what Jaguar game is almost never considered the top game for the system, in spite of all the words and the incredible amount of money paid to play it? Hint: it's not Atari Karts (although that's a good suggestion ). BattleSphere, BattleSphere, BattleSphere! Just going by the raw data. Perhaps there is a more nuanced answer that I'm missing? ~u 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+save2600 Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 Battlesphere 'is' worth the hype as Jaguar games go IMO. Is it worth $500-$700? Are any console games (especially NES or TG-16) worth that much? All I'll say is that as far as playable games go, Battlesphere is a better value than most of this over-priced crap is. At least with a game like Battlesphere, you've got something to show the system off with. What's that stupid $10k sports game for the NES called? Who cares. And Magical Chase for the TG-16? Yeah, I'll stick to valuing and playing Battlesphere to either of those any day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+remowilliams Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 Just going by the raw data. Perhaps there is a more nuanced answer that I'm missing? Nope, its got to be BS for BS. Just picking one thing - according to its creator(s) its AI is so unbelievably powerful that if you got 16 Jaguars into the same square mile Skynet would happen to us all, immediately. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DracIsBack Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 For me, they were Towers II and Defender 2000. I had such huge hope for Towers and paid a fortune for it, only to find it really boring. After all the hype of Defender 2000 after Tempest 2000, I wasn't really impressed with it either. I personally loved AvP and Atari Karts. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DracIsBack Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 Blue Lightning, I thought it would have been ace like the Lynx version. What a playing disaster on Jaguar. Agree about Blue Lightning, but I honestly can't think of a time where anyone over-hyped the Jaguar version. The Lynx version got great reviews and i remember the scaling being considered really innovative in 1989. By the time the Jaguar version came out, I remember Jaguar fans and reviewers skewering it for looking like a bad Sega CD game. Ironically though, a boyfriend of my roommate in University was a pilot and played it obsessively whenever he came over. Another friend got obsessed as well. So at least those two liked it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Austin Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 At least with a game like Battlesphere, you've got something to show the system off with. Dude #1: "Hey friend, let me show you this awesome game! If you've never been impressed with the Jaguar before, this is going to completely blow your mind." *pops in Battlesphere* Dude #2: "......oh, there's.. lots of blank space. I guess that starfield is kind of cool?" Dude #1: "No, watch, it gets better!" Dude #2: "Oh, hey, there are some laser beams. A pancake-style object is flying around me, am I supposed to shoot that?" Dude #1: "Yeah man, super intense stuff, right?" Dude #2: "Wow, a planet.. or, I think that's supposed to be one? Looks more like a golf ball getting bigger in size. I am confused." Dude #1: "....." Dude #1: "Ah, f**k it, let's play some Tempest 2000 instead. You'll be more impressed with that and you'll have more fun to boot." 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Dangerous Posted June 23, 2015 Author Share Posted June 23, 2015 Call me crazy but always thought Blue Ligtning was one of the more fun, playable games on the Jag. And the music rocks! And hey at least these days no one can accuse it of being over hyped as one of the best games on the Jag..lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+remowilliams Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 *pops in Battlesphere* Other likely reactions: "Wait, what - the enemies are green? You mean unlike every other f*ing game that has ever existed in the universe? Why would anyone do that??" "If this AI is so unbelievable, why do they endlessly just keep turning around and jousting with you?" "Look at the ships, they are so funny and classy - Tuna Taco spelled backwards and a giant penis named the Penetrator. Wait, are you saying this wasn't developed by five year olds??" "Umm, I just sped up and now I appear to have outrun my own laser fire? Ummm.....?" Call me crazy but always thought Blue Ligtning was one of the more fun, playable games on the Jag A few options here I'd say: A) You are certifiably insane. B) It's true and a very, very horrible judgement on every other Jag game. C) Blue Ligtning is a previously unknown game of which you have the only copy, and is roughly a billion times better than Blue Lightning. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+save2600 Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 Other likely reactions: "Wait, what - the enemies are green? You mean unlike every other f*ing game that has ever existed in the universe? Why would anyone do that??" You just gotta look at it from a green is go (go ahead and shoot), red is stop (don't shoot!) point of view and you'll be all set! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Dangerous Posted June 23, 2015 Author Share Posted June 23, 2015 (edited) I think it compared favorably to Afterburner on the 32x (which is a good enough arcade port) and in some ways has more options and nuance to the gameplay than that game. For example you can pick different planes with different capabilities and weapons, and each mission has multiple objectives. It's also at pace that allows you to weave more and target enemies more accurately, rather than franticly and constantly going down in a ball of flames like afterburner, where you can barely see whats going on. Sure, it doesn't look that impressive but it plays well enough and you can actually progress through the game unlike many other jaguar titles https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W-EcasrxefE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DpiZ9Gsw1Eg And as to it looking like a "bad sega CD game," well, that's more that you can say for most Jaguar games, which look like bad Sega Genesis games. The best Jaguar games look about on par with the best seen on the 32x, not the 3DO and not the Saturn, not even close; so it all comes down to gameplay and what you enjoy in a game. But enough about Blue Lightning, it really belongs in the Under-hyped column at this point. I guess every "bad" Jaguar game has its fans Edited June 23, 2015 by travistouchdown Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Dragon Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 (edited) Regarding Blue Lightning Jag CD: Whilst it's true it was'nt hyped per say, the early screens released to UK Press, were a damn sight better quality in terms of resolution and textures than the final product, but even then there was'nt much fuss about game itself. I did have issue of said screens put to Fred Gill (on my behalf) on the RVG Interview, but sadly as they were'nt able to supply him with said screens, he was unable to comment on them. Shame as they scream of being yet another set of mock-ip's for Press Use Only, rather than captured from early version, to myself. Edited June 23, 2015 by Lost Dragon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Dragon Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 Ahhhhhhhh......... See, i was going to ask about Battlesphere and those A.I routines after reading that quote from coder, years back in Retro Gamer Magazines 1st look at the Jaguar. He said it was'nt until Halo (Xbox) he felt 'outgunned'... So, wondered if he meant: It was'nt until the Xbox that consoles had raw power needed for believable A.I to match what could be done with Jaguar (in his view) or..it was'nt until Bungie came along a developer put key focus on the A.I as a priority for a game or something else completely. I could really do with someone who's put time in with Battlesphere and likes of Playstation's (3) Colony Wars Games, Saturn/PS1 Darklight Conflict etc ,to give unbiased view on which game/s have the 'better' A.I routines to understand the 'outgunned' quote in context. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cobra Kai Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 Ahhhhhhhh......... See, i was going to ask about Battlesphere and those A.I routines after reading that quote from coder, years back in Retro Gamer Magazines 1st look at the Jaguar. He said it was'nt until Halo (Xbox) he felt 'outgunned'... So, wondered if he meant: It was'nt until the Xbox that consoles had raw power needed for believable A.I to match what could be done with Jaguar (in his view) or..it was'nt until Bungie came along a developer put key focus on the A.I as a priority for a game or something else completely. I could really do with someone who's put time in with Battlesphere and likes of Playstation's (3) Colony Wars Games, Saturn/PS1 Darklight Conflict etc ,to give unbiased view on which game/s have the 'better' A.I routines to understand the 'outgunned' quote in context. Who cares! Every developer likes to brag about their games, big deal. Give it a rest already. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cobra Kai Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 I'm really puzzled by some of the games listed in this thread as overhyped. Blue Lightning? Who overhyped that game? I think it's universally panned. What a weird thing to have Blue Lightning in a heated discussion about overhyped games. I also think that this thread is proof that Defender 2000 is indeed NOT an overhyped game. I think that there are probably 3 people in this entire forum that like the game intensely, and I'll count myself as one of them. The rest of the general forum here really hates the game. I counter that it's definitely not in the overhyped category. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Dragon Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 (edited) Not really looking to rise to any bait, but sorry, no, not 'every developer' likes to brag about their games. Quite a few i've 'spoken to' over the past 18 months plus have been more than happy to admit games they worked on were poor and the reasons behind the quality not being as good as might of been. It's thanks to coders being open about games they worked on, early claims they made etc we found out why things like Doom on the Saturn etc turned out so poor. The Battlesphere coder made a pretty bold statement and as i'm a big fan of Space shooters like Colony Wars, Starlancer etc i'm keen to see how Battlesphere holds up on the A.I front, after that claim was made, espically after hyped Space shooters like Xenocracy (which i actually bought on PS1 after marketing hype) turned out to be so awful. I paid for the issue of RG Magazine quote was in, i'd like to hear other fans of the genres view on how the A.I stacks up... So it's a valid question, if your unable to answer it, that's fine. Edited June 23, 2015 by Lost Dragon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cobra Kai Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 Not everything anybody ever said about a video game needs to be investigated and 'gotten to the bottom of' like Dick Tracy. So if you find someone somewhere that says another game has better A.I. than Jaguar Battlesphere (which is probably not difficult to do), what does that prove? It's meaningless in every imaginable way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JagChris Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 (edited) Ahhhhhhhh......... See, i was going to ask about Battlesphere and those A.I routines after reading that quote from coder, years back in Retro Gamer Magazines 1st look at the Jaguar. He said it was'nt until Halo (Xbox) he felt 'outgunned'... So, wondered if he meant: It was'nt until the Xbox that consoles had raw power needed for believable A.I to match what could be done with Jaguar (in his view) or..it was'nt until Bungie came along a developer put key focus on the A.I as a priority for a game or something else completely. I could really do with someone who's put time in with Battlesphere and likes of Playstation's (3) Colony Wars Games, Saturn/PS1 Darklight Conflict etc ,to give unbiased view on which game/s have the 'better' A.I routines to understand the 'outgunned' quote in context. You keep discussing his work. As a journalists wouldn't it only be fair that you ask him yourself? Edited June 23, 2015 by JagChris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeoGeoNinja Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 You keep discussing his work. As a journalists wouldn't it only be fair that you ask him yourself? This again *sigh* Though, I won't deny... you do have a point. No other points/subjects have been speculated on without an investigation, so... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JagChris Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 This again *sigh* Though, I won't deny... you do have a point. No other points/subjects have been speculated on without an investigation, so... LD can interview him in PM. He can edit out non-technical stuff that he may consider 'inflammatory' and just post the technical facts stated by oppressor if he's worried about starting a flamewar or something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GroovyBee Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 So, wondered if he meant: No point wondering about the ramblings of a deluded bullshitter. A 100MHz Pentium has significantly more processing power than all 3 CPUs in the jag combined and was available in the mid 90s . Imagine what multi GHz CPUs do for AI. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Dragon Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 Couple of points here JagChris: 1)Last time you suggested i interview him if my memory serves he still had an account here.No idea if it's active, but i seem to remember suggesting if it were, he could answer any/all points raised here himself, no need for an interview per say. Likes of Mike Diskett, John Croudy etc etc been 'happy' enough to respond to points raised on here and other forums, so i don't see why this coder should be any different. 2)Going off past interviews/email exchanges i've had and shared, thinking Dave Taylor, Mike Diskett, John Romero etc etc (comments regarding Magic carpet attempt on Jag CD) if the info is'nt to peoples liking, it's usually met with either coder is bitter or people won't believe it unless coder themselves post it. and 3)Like when have i ever classed myself as a jurnolist?. Yes, i look into Lost games, claims made about released games etc on behalf of various sites/publications, but i have never classed myself as a jurnolist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Dragon Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 Let me be clear once again.I've never played Battlesphere, only ever seen it running on Youtube and that was after reading his comments in said issue of RG, plus the game is in a genre i very much enjoy, so yes, i have a vested interest in finding out just what he was meaning and i'm not going to shy away from asking for others views on how the A.I stacked up, thought this forum would be the ideal place as a lot of posters clearly have played Battlesphere. I've no idea of the coders personality, nor do i honestly care.All i'm wondering is to what regards his quote was intended. RG like any other magazine is limited for space per article, for all i know said quote might have only been a partial quote and thus not quoted in context, it's happens... Jaguar gets treated exactly the same as any other format i look into, i'm not wrapping it in cotton wool anymore than i do the C64 for C64GTW research. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+CyranoJ Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 If (pointing at player) fly straight at them shooting else (turn towards player) FUCKING. STUNNING. Ed Fries must have been shitting his pants with worry. 5 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GroovyBee Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 Don't forget the awesome homing missile AI too. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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