Smokeless Joe Posted February 29, 2016 Share Posted February 29, 2016 Those might work. The BOM suggests this: which I've never seen before. Maybe I can't find it because I don't know what to call it? The BOM calls it an AUGAT 40 pin DIP Break-Away Socket Carrier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Van Posted February 29, 2016 Share Posted February 29, 2016 Those might work. The BOM suggests this: image.jpeg which I've never seen before. Maybe I can't find it because I don't know what to call it? The BOM calls it an AUGAT 40 pin DIP Break-Away Socket Carrier. OKAY, what you are looking at are single pin sockets loaded on a soldering carrier. What you would do is push on the single sockets pins; then once everything is soldered on to the PCB, the carrier is removed. Very much like the carrier, I use an old/junk chip to space the left and right socket SIPs before soldering and then remove the chip. Yogi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+orpheuswaking Posted February 29, 2016 Share Posted February 29, 2016 Is anyone building and selling these complete? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Van Posted February 29, 2016 Share Posted February 29, 2016 Is anyone building and selling these complete? Try Fuji-man, at one point he was doing a run, http://atariage.com/forums/topic/240686-transkey-ii-in-development/page-11?do=findComment&comment=3394376 Yogi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Van Posted February 29, 2016 Share Posted February 29, 2016 (edited) Those might work. The BOM suggests this: image.jpeg which I've never seen before. Maybe I can't find it because I don't know what to call it? The BOM calls it an AUGAT 40 pin DIP Break-Away Socket Carrier. So you could use the SIPs but you will have to 'pop' out each socket pin from the plastic. Then like I said earlier, use an old chip to hold them in place while you solder the PCB. The TK][ board is designed so that the sockets are soldered almost flush on the PCB and the thin pins plug into the Pokey socket on the main board below. Yogi Edited February 29, 2016 by Van Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smokeless Joe Posted February 29, 2016 Share Posted February 29, 2016 I am simply not finding any place that sells these metal carrier sockets. What did everyone else use? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+mytek Posted February 29, 2016 Author Share Posted February 29, 2016 (edited) The correct part number for the 40 pin carrier appears to be 740-AG4D. There were a few variations which would likely work, 740-AG3D, 740-AG4D-ES, 740-AG4D-ESL and a low profile 740-AG30D. These were made by AUGAT, AMP, TYCO, TE Connectivity, and possibly Buchanan. Unfortunately that source I quoted in the BOM appears to be down as was mentioned earlier. As for how long or why is anyone's guess. DataSheet Page A12 I knew these were obsolete parts when I used them, but figured that for the small numbers that would likely be made, that the source I found would be sufficient to the needs. Perhaps someone with better searching skills than I can find a new source. Worst case scenario, perhaps a new pcb layout can be made using an alternative, but more available part (something like what is used on the POKEY Stereo Board). - Michael Edited February 29, 2016 by mytekcontrols Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smokeless Joe Posted March 1, 2016 Share Posted March 1, 2016 I'm just glad there's a reason for their scarcity. I thought maybe I had a stroke and damaged the part of the brain that can use Google. Maybe something like this would work, only with shorter (and only 40) pins: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenames99 Posted March 1, 2016 Share Posted March 1, 2016 dont use wire wrap sockets. the sqare part of the pins are very large .025 inch and will damage any socket or pin they get inserted into. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+bob1200xl Posted March 1, 2016 Share Posted March 1, 2016 Samtec has a number of parts that may work. Check them out. You can order directly from them, if I remember right. Bob 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+mytek Posted March 1, 2016 Author Share Posted March 1, 2016 Samtec has a number of parts that may work. Check them out. You can order directly from them, if I remember right. Bob Thanks Bob -- I'm checking this out and will verify dimensional aspects with the originally spec'ed AUGAT part to see if there is a 'drop-in' possibility. Luckily I ordered a couple extras of the AUGAT connector, so I'll get out my digital calipers and scope it out. Be back with some info a little later today. - Michael Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+mytek Posted March 1, 2016 Author Share Posted March 1, 2016 (edited) Here's what would work as a Drop-In replacement for the originally spec'ed AUGAT 40 pin carrier socket (the overall height remains the same, but the height above the Atari Motherboard is reduced by .10", which will clear resistors and bypass caps, but not electrolytic capacitors). All Dimensions are in INCHES It would take two of these 20 pin SIP connectors to create a replacement for the one 40 pin AUGAT part. Price isn't bad at $1.85 each, but the freight will kill you if you only order a couple from SAMTEC (see example below) Note: I didn't check out other shipping options. For a single board requirement I would suggest putting in a SAMPLE order, and see what that comes out to. SAMTEC ORDER PAGE - Michael EDIT: Due to the reduced clearance between the bottom of the TK-II-PIGGYBACK board and the top of the Atari Motherboard, it may require relocating certain electrolytic capacitors to the bottom side of the Motherboard. Edited March 1, 2016 by mytekcontrols 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+mytek Posted March 2, 2016 Author Share Posted March 2, 2016 I was directed here after inquiring about keyboard alternatives for an Atari 400. I'm speechless at how impressed I am with this. Wow. But my boggled mind can conceive a couple questions. Has anyone tried installing one of these in a 400? Are the POKEY chips the same between different Atari systems? Will it fit in a 400 case? Perhaps a better solution for the 400 might be this variation of the TK-II... The TK-II-XEGS-S which can be panel mounted, uses a single dual purpose (Keyboard & Mouse) PS/2 connector, and with a D-Sub 15 Male ribbon connector can be used as a solder-in version. Also it utilizes very commonly available parts in its construction (no obsolete connectors). Could even eliminate the D-Sub 15 connector all together and instead solder wires directly to the board, but I suspect that keeping the D-Sub connection would be better. Because of its small size, you could easily find a spot in your 400 to mount it. I'll have to draw up a wiring diagram that shows Ribbon-to-POKEY/GTIA connections. Although if you download the various TK-II schematics at ataribits.weebly.com/design.html you can probably figure out what goes where with a bit of head scratching. - Michael 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+mytek Posted March 2, 2016 Author Share Posted March 2, 2016 In reference to the limited board clearance using the SAMTEC connectors on the TK-II-PIGGYBACK board. In order to boost the height, simply insert a 40 machine pin socket in between the SAMTEC connectors on TK-II and the POKEY socket on the Atari Motherboard. There are low profile variants available for those situations where you only need a slight boost in height. Just throwing ideas out there - Michael Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smokeless Joe Posted March 2, 2016 Share Posted March 2, 2016 (edited) Yes! "Machine tooled" were the words I was looking for! I think a socket and SIP combination should do the trick. I've got about five orders from various companies for all the parts. Now I wait. Edited March 2, 2016 by Smokeless Joe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bumzyman Posted March 2, 2016 Share Posted March 2, 2016 Is anyone going to be ordering PCB's for these in the near future? I'd like to make a batch of piggyback boards for my Multiplexer based TCPIP Express BBS system for when it ever sees the light of day. It would be pretty cool to have all eight nodes and the master computer connected to a KVM switch and my trusty Model-M keyboard. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+mytek Posted March 3, 2016 Author Share Posted March 3, 2016 Those might work. The BOM suggests this: image.jpeg which I've never seen before. Maybe I can't find it because I don't know what to call it? The BOM calls it an AUGAT 40 pin DIP Break-Away Socket Carrier. Good News It appears that the original source I quoted for these www.electronicsurplus.com has been renovating their website and apparently ran into some problems that has caused their site to be down. They also have an Ebay Store, but I was unable to find that part listed (or any IC sockets) at that location. So I sent them an inquiry via email to see if they still plan on selling these. Hopefully the response will be positive. - Michael Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+mytek Posted March 5, 2016 Author Share Posted March 5, 2016 (edited) This appears to be available again from the Electronic Surplus Site: AUGAT - 740-AG14D - IC Socket. 40-pin break-away Price: $1.50 (In Stock, more than 100 ready to ship) I would suggest that if anyone is interested in building the TK-II-PIGGYBACK version that they pick some of these up while they last. This is an obsolete part, so once these are gone good luck finding any more. Although it appears the SAMTEC SS-120-S-2 might work in its place, it is not an ideal replacement. TK-II-PIGGYBACK Board (plugs directly into the POKEY socket on the Atari motherboard, thereby capturing the keyboard signals) - Michael Edited March 5, 2016 by mytekcontrols 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smokeless Joe Posted March 7, 2016 Share Posted March 7, 2016 I ordered these on Saturday, and their website still says that have over 100, but I just got an email saying that they're sold out. Shucks. Still, it's not the only part that'll work. Thanks for the updates! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+mytek Posted March 7, 2016 Author Share Posted March 7, 2016 I ordered these on Saturday, and their website still says that have over 100, but I just got an email saying that they're sold out. Shucks. Still, it's not the only part that'll work. Thanks for the updates! Sorry about that I talked to the guy who runs the operation and he said he would check on the availability and then get back to me. He never did, so when I saw the site was back up and the part was listed I assumed that this was his response. Obviously this was not the case. He did mention something interesting, that someone recently bought 150 of these. - Michael Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+mytek Posted March 7, 2016 Author Share Posted March 7, 2016 (edited) TK-II Firmware Future Updates: So now that a few people have TK-II's, and I assume have been using it, its time to ask for any observations, bugs, desired changes, ect. For starters I was using the ATARI800 emulator, and I wanted to toggle the inverse character feature. At first I tried using F11, but that wasn't mapped to the same thing as the TK-II. So I discovered that it was actually the un-shifted Tilde (~`) key on the emulator. this got me thinking that it actually makes sense to use this key for this function, and it was what was done on the original 1990 TransKey (and on the AKI/KRH?). So I would like to make the Tilde key into the INVERSE key if nobody objects. Shifted Tilde will still put out the ^ character which keeps it compatible with BobTerm. And if I do this, I would like to eliminate the INVERSE function from F11, since there is too much chance of accidentally hitting that instead of F10 (HELP) when wanting to access the Help Menu. Another thing I discovered, is that when in 'Insert Mode' (Alt+I toggles into and out of this mode), double Esc doesn't work properly. So this too needs to be changed. Currently the arrow keys by default are putting out the CTRL+arrows, so that only a single key press is required to move around the screen (with ALT+A toggling to a non-CTRL mode). I was thinking it might be good to have CTRL toggle whatever the existing function is on these keys. So in normal mode, arrow by itself moves the cursor, and with CTRL these keys revert to -=+* (normal un-CTRL'ed output on Atari). Then if the mode was triggered by ALT+A, it would be identical to the Atari -=+* with a single key press, and navigation with CTRL+arrow. So now for your suggestions - Michael Edited March 7, 2016 by mytekcontrols Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen J. Carden Posted March 9, 2016 Share Posted March 9, 2016 (edited) Hi Michael! I think most of the users here know that I am Michael Beta Tester. CrazyBonz and I built the [K]eyboard [R]eplacement [H]ardware project the KRH is for the most Part the AKI with a different PIC Chip and corrected Firmware Code. Michael from scratch built the Transkey, Transkey-II, and XEGS Transkey-II. I am lucky to have at least 2 or more of each of these hardware upgrade. I like each of these devices and my Atari Tower Projects could not have been built with out this kind of Hardware. The First device TransKey was for part was a small computer that had its own 6502 Process, Ram, Rom, and PIA chip which allowed the Transkey to interface with the Pokey chip on the Atari. Here is a picture of one. Now with the new chips that have a processor, RAM, Rom, and PIA all on a single package you can see why I think so highly of this design. I can not take all the credit for the KRH. However I am going to say if you do not have one of these devices you should invest in one for each of your Atari XE Computers just because of the Poor design and keyboard milar in the Atari XE machines. If you need just one of these devices you may want to look real hard at Mikes Transkey-II. The KRH we did is no longer sold by US. However if someone wants to use my Updated AKI firmware just contact me by e-mail. But by far I like Mikes Keyboard and Mouse setup. The only thing that my KRH-II has over the TransKey is the KRH-II was designed to fit and work with the Lotharek Dual Pokey Setup. Now so I am ver clear on this. My KRH & KRH-II is a revised AKI with the Firmware errors fixed. Mikes TransKey-II and XEGS version are start from Scratch Projects. Mike has the best keyboard and Mouse version I have seen so far for the Atari. TRANSKEY-II Rates a 99% in my Book for Atari Keyboard and Mouse Hardware. Job Well Done! Take Care! Stephen J. Carden http://www.realdos.net Edited March 9, 2016 by Stephen J. Carden 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+mytek Posted March 9, 2016 Author Share Posted March 9, 2016 (edited) Mike has the best keyboard and Mouse version I have seen so far for the Atari. TRANSKEY-II Rates a 99% in my Book for Atari Keyboard and Mouse Hardware. Job Well Done! Take Care! Stephen J. Carden http://www.realdos.net Thank you Steve But I think it would be better to say "That the TK-II is best Keyboard and Mouse adapter that is strictly interfaced via POKEY on the Atari." I underlined that last part just so people know that the Mouse support is both unusual and not as good as what can be done via a joystick or bus connected device. At this point the mouse is more of a novelty in its implementation. However the Keyboard aspect is very respectable, and just needs a few small tweaks to make it even better. This time around I will hold off on any new firmware updates for a while, giving time to get user feedback, and to make this hopefully the last update for quite some time to come. The present state of the system works very well, and I have been using it extensively to write code for the last couple of weeks, without any real glitches other than what I have already pointed out in my previous post. So it definitely can be used as a daily driver with the current firmware. Lets see if we can get Steve's approval rating up to 100% - Michael Edited March 9, 2016 by mytekcontrols Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen J. Carden Posted March 9, 2016 Share Posted March 9, 2016 (edited) Thank you Steve But I think it would be better to say "That the TK-II is best Keyboard and Mouse adapter that is strictly interfaced via POKEY on the Atari." I underlined that last part just so people know that the Mouse support is both unusual and not as good as what can be done via a joystick or bus connected device. At this point the mouse is more of a novelty in its implementation. However the Keyboard aspect is very respectable, and just needs a few small tweaks to make it even better. This time around I will hold off on any new firmware updates for a while, giving time to get user feedback, and to make this hopefully the last update for quite some time to come. The present state of the system works very well, and I have been using it extensively to write code for the last couple of weeks, without any real glitches other than what I have already pointed out in my previous post. So it definitely can be used as a daily driver with the current firmware. Lets see if we can get Steve's approval rating up to 100% - Michael Hi Michael! You know me well! you would have gotten 100% out of me on my rating scale except for the mouse. The mouse was why you lost that single point. But the little board is so cool I really like it. Now I have to use my KRH-II for my Lotharek Dual Pokey Machines. Other than that single upgrade I would use the TransKey-II & XEGS Transkey. It took a lot for me to rate it that way. I really wanted my KRH-II to score better but the facts are you have the better interface. Both of our Keyboard interfaces work well with the wireless keyboard interface I found and is outlined in one of the messages. The other thing I like that you did Michael was allow others to make your device and it is really cool the PIC chips were programmed by the Atari 8-bit. That was a very cool little board you sent me. Since you are not finished with the firmware I am going to hold off on the Official Hardware post on my web site and I will also post it here. My eyes are better now after 6 weeks of not being able to read. I have retina problems that flare up every now and then. so I have several reviews I need to write and post on my web site. Michael when you are finished with this project could I get you to zip it all up so that I can post it with the reviews and pictures. Kensington model k64364 Wireless Keyboard that works with the AKI, KRH, TransKey-II, XEGS Transkey-II. http://www.kensington.com Take Care! Stephen J. Carden http://www.realdos.net Edited March 9, 2016 by Stephen J. Carden 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+mytek Posted March 9, 2016 Author Share Posted March 9, 2016 (edited) Hi Michael! You know me well! you would have gotten 100% out of me on my rating scale except for the mouse. The mouse was why you lost that single point. But the little board is so cool I really like it. Now I have to use my KRH-II for my Lotharek Dual Pokey Machines. Other than that single upgrade I would use the TransKey-II & XEGS Transkey. It took a lot for me to rate it that way. I really wanted my KRH-II to score better but the facts are you have the better interface. Both of our Keyboard interfaces work well with the wireless keyboard interface I found and is outlined in one of the messages. The other thing I like that you did Michael was allow others to make your device and it is really cool the PIC chips were programmed by the Atari 8-bit. That was a very cool little board you sent me. Since you are not finished with the firmware I am going to hold off on the Official Hardware post on my web site and I will also post it here. My eyes are better now after 6 weeks of not being able to read. I have retina problems that flare up every now and then. so I have several reviews I need to write and post on my web site. Michael when you are finished with this project could I get you to zip it all up so that I can post it with the reviews and pictures. Kensington model k64364 Wireless Keyboard that works with the AKI, KRH, TransKey-II, XEGS Transkey-II. Wireless Keyboard.JPG http://www.kensington.com Take Care! Stephen J. Carden http://www.realdos.net Yeah the Mouse is something I want to revisit . The present implementation lacks any kind of acceleration, and thus just doesn't feel right. Because of this, it also takes a long time to move long distances across the screen. Obviously I am severely restricted by how fast POKEY can acknowledge input, since the Mouse's only way of moving around the screen is by mimicking CTRL+arrow key presses. This restriction is compounded by the lack of interrupt support for the Mouse, so sometimes movement gets missed. The interrupt problem might be resolvable by utilizing an 'interrupt-on-change' feature that can be enabled for the entire port where both the Keyboard and Mouse are connected to the PIC chip. However it will be tricky, since it could interfere with the Keyboard if not handled correctly. As for accelerating the movement, this can be done by sending a combination of both the normal arrow keys along with the 1200XL function key version which is supported by both the XL and XE line of computers. By alternating between these two sets of arrows, it is possible to nearly double the transition speed across the screen (it gets around the normal key de-bounce routine introducing a processing delay). Of course the de-bounce could be modified within the computer, but I would prefer to not have this be a requirement in order to get acceleration. Steve you are a good man. To be objective and to not favor your own product over another is a rare quality . Yes when we cross that final bridge I will gladly create a zip file for you containing all of the documentation, PCB files, and firmware. I will also post that in this thread as well. But just to warn you, it will be a while before this happens since my time is now somewhat limited by other projects. And I want to give ample time for others to chime in with any concerns and/or features they would like to see implemented. - Michael P.S. Glad to hear that your eyes are doing better Edited March 9, 2016 by mytekcontrols 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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