rockman_x_2002 Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 I'd love to see a documentary about the Chameleon, but done with pixel art and text stuffed inside a SNES cart! Ideally it could rhyme like a Doctor Seuss book, but OK now I'm just being crazy... How you'd watch it could be up to you. Put it in a SNES (Make sure ya call it a SNEZZ) or a Retro Duo, RetroN 5 or Retro Freak, DL it to an emulator or Everdrive jobber, or maybe throw it in your own Jaguar (after doing the Chameleon Conversion of course)... A fella can dream haha!... CARTRIDGES! Nah, just give me a documentary on RCA Videodisc. Or an audio book sold on 8-track tape, and I'm good. All jokes aside, I've been keeping up with this whole dumpster fire of a thing, here and with Retrogaming Roundup and elsewhere. And I do see some sense in a cart-based console. But this was built from the ground up as a train with square wooden wheels to start. When I first heard the idea proposed on Retrogaming Roundup, and the initial idea of having the games on ROM-based cartridge, a console with no Internet access (because by golly these games were going to be done bug-free from the start), and an inability to update game/system software, my initial gut reaction was, "Well yeah, but why?" There's no reason to forego using modern tech just because you want to tap into the retro vibe, and Nintendo has shown you can have some semblance of cartridges using fairly modern media that can be updated (to a degree), So I never saw the wisdom in having a system made in 2015 in 2016 today that's cut off from modern capabilities simply to spite itself. I understand the whole not wanting to have to have updates and all that, but this day and age it's very difficult to write a game that doesn't need a bug fix once in a while. What you do is ensure that, if you buy the console, you don't require Internet access to fully enjoy it, but if you do have Internet access (and who among us doesn't since we're right here on this board talking about this very thing), then your experience would be that much more enhanced. I think there would be a "right" way to do this sort of console. My vision would look more like a Raspberry Pi-esque hardware, custom OS that's built for games leaning toward retro but capable of more modern games if you could push it, media on flash memory cartridges, Internet access, and the ability to update the games and system via the Internet (but not necessarily online play). It would have to be cheap to manufacture, cheap on selling price, high on appeal, and above all, it would have to be a labor of love. It would also be a console with the understanding that you would be selling these type things at an absolute total loss, with the only possible profit being made back from selling games for it. That being said, it's still a totally unfeasible thing to do because the potential market for such a thing is pretty small when you factor in trying to sell this to the public at large, and not just a bunch of retro gamers like us. Moral of the story, as a developer? Just make games for the stuff that's out there, and if you really want to make a retro game, make it for one of our already existing and excellent systems. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flojomojo Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 What better way for Mike to tell the world his horrifying story of being scammed by the nefarious Sean "Lee" Robinson, while trying to save gaming as we know it!? It's probably possible to stitch something together with existing footage, with Daily Show style fake interviews, where you ask outrageous questions and let Mike play the straight man. That would be delightful. Though I'm reasonably certain his ego is big enough that he'd be game to go on camera just because, and have it fixed in editing, "King of Kong" style, to make him the villain of the piece. You know, for the record. Keep the faith. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newsdee Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 (edited) with the only possible profit being made back from selling for itThat is already a tall order. If you don't put DRM everybody can create carts for it, and if you do have DRM, somebody will crack it sooner or later. Either way you end up losing to piracy. That's why consoles now have online services with security updates... A better strategy would be to make profit on the hardware but then margins would be paper thin. Edited January 4, 2017 by Newsdee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockman_x_2002 Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 That is already a tall order. If you don't put DRM everybody can create carts for it, and if you do have DRM, somebody will crack it sooner or later. Either way you end up losing to piracy. That's why consoles now have online services with security updates... A better strategy would be to make profit on the hardware but then margins would be paper thin. Yep. Honest to God, you'd have a better chance winning the Powerball multiple times in a row. That's why I say, if I'm a developer, and I want to make retro-styled games for something? I'd do it on something that already exists, that's already established, and forget this business of building my own console for it. The risks are simply too great to make any sort of business sense in today's world. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pipercub Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 (edited) I have said, quite a few times, that one of the two questions MK asked when he called me up about this thing was if I thought there was a market for it. I told him that I did not think it was viable. I am not against the idea of carts at all, many of us in this thread have shelves full of the things that all still work and can never be altered or revoked by any party, and we love the games with whatever bugs they may have. The Ataris and NESs that we play to this day didn't turn out to be useless heaps without constant updates until support gets pulled. The whole of cart based gaming certainly isn't a bug infested nightmare we want to forget. If I walked into a store and saw a premium console, with cart based media, that played games other than FPS/sports/unrealistic racing games no firmware/software updates to screw with mods/hacks etc. and there was a slew of quality launch titles I would be a buyer. But I think that the number of "me" out there is quite small, the market as a whole does not agree with me, it went the direction of STEAM and I have to admit that is so. The NEO-GEOx was a pretty good example of the hardware side of such a product, although the business side turned into a real train wreck. Had the console adhered to the original concept and not grown into the hydra that it did, and had the business side been conducted ethically and honestly it could have had some very small market success that would have been respectable, but it went the other way. Even if everything were done right the thing was never going to be sitting on the shelf next to the XBox or PS4. But placed in the hands of an idea man trying to bluff through the crowdfunding gatekeepers, well 3 companies, 2 names, and a dumpster fire later (BRILLIANT TERM!!!) we see the result. I for one think that there is a good documentary to be found in this, much along the lines of King of Kong and for the same reasons. The story is one that is accessible and relate-able, it has heroes and villains and like all true successful and engaging villains the villain is the hero of his own story from his point of view. It touches the ongoing crowdfunding world which is evolving from the wild west and has a success/failure story line in which success means two very different things. One team trying to bring the thing to market by cutting corners, smoke and mirrors prototypes, and business entity shell games is pitched against the opposition trying to prevent them from getting away with it. Imagine how engaging a documentary would be flipping back and forth through the story threads as the viewer watches all of the events and key players striving toward their team's goals with the countdown to the moment Coleco pulls the project following the 3rd fake prototype, then the solemn aftermath with all that came would be a compelling ending. And how could I forget, the whole unresolved mysterious Mr. Lee question not being answered. I will say it again, BTB and SDR should partner up on this thing. Edited January 4, 2017 by Pipercub 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheClassyGamer Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 Just going to throw this out there. If MK, having had the Jaguar molds, had said something along the lines of... Lets design a back and insert to go into the Jaguar shell that will allow a person to put one of those little board systems like a Raspberry Pi in there, and while we are at it go ahead and do up some joystick connectors that would be able to fit into the mold and interface with the board. It would be a pretty nifty shell for people to make their own rom boxes, and we could sell different color shells. Now there wouldn't be a big market for this, but over time it would pay for itself, maybe not make any money but could be done as just a labor of love for the community. But no... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flojomojo Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 But why make it look like an Atari Jaguar, the losingest loser of all losing Atari systems? A Pi is the size of a deck of cards, not a toilet base or whatever the Jag is supposed to be. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keatah Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 (edited) Toilet base. No wonder this whole endeavor is full'a shit. Edited January 4, 2017 by Keatah 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eltigro Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 I don't know if it will be a full on documentary, but I bet it is at least a future video from Norm the Gaming Historian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheClassyGamer Posted January 5, 2017 Share Posted January 5, 2017 But why make it look like an Atari Jaguar, the losingest loser of all losing Atari systems? A Pi is the size of a deck of cards, not a toilet base or whatever the Jag is supposed to be. Because it would open up the door to be able to name it something like the Pi-Guar. Then you could have a web browser and get on line or maybe do some spreadsheets on it. It would be like a video game system and a computer, sort of a video computer system. Retro Video Game System's Pi-Guar Video Computer System or for short RVGS Pi-Guar VCS It could have apps that you could download and the cartridge would house a little flash HDD. There could even be a Game Gavel app so you could check auctions and buy stuff right from your RVGS Pi-Guar VCS, with just a paypal account, bit coin, or credit card. There could be a magazine that you could get electronically, and view on the console as well! Anyhow, that was all I could come up with. The only other thing I can think of to do with Jaguar shells would be to build a custom game system board with an fpga and order up some custom cores that would let it mimic older consoles as well as playing new modern games, but nobody would be crazy enough to try it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dj_convoy Posted January 5, 2017 Share Posted January 5, 2017 I will say it again, BTB and SDR should partner up on this thing. 1,000 times yes. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newsdee Posted January 5, 2017 Share Posted January 5, 2017 (edited) But why make it look like an Atari Jaguar, the losingest loser of all losing Atari systems?Because of the molds he found. Simple as that! Edited January 5, 2017 by Newsdee 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Osgeld Posted January 5, 2017 Share Posted January 5, 2017 But why make it look like an Atari Jaguar, the losingest loser of all losing Atari systems? A Pi is the size of a deck of cards, not a toilet base or whatever the Jag is supposed to be. while stuffing my pi in a jag shell, its a bit of a tight fit ... course that's PI, power supply, soft on / off circuit and dongles running off all over the place, but its a tidy console, not a deck of cards with a bunch of shit hanging out of it, and making look like an anime monster scene dangling about around the tv 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ROFLcade Posted January 5, 2017 Share Posted January 5, 2017 I'm not gonna lie, if a documentary of this whole saga is ever made, and it is released on Blu-ray/DVD/Laser disc/VHS/Betamax/whatever, I would buy the super ultimate limited classic collector's edition unrated director's cut with extra bonus content. Maybe even multiple copies if there were more than one color to choose from. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andromeda Stardust Posted January 5, 2017 Share Posted January 5, 2017 At some point MK will realize there is more money in the shitstorm story behind the RetroVGS/Chameleon than there will ever be in his Retro mag. I mean, look at this thread. It's just a matter of time, folks. The documentary/book is coming. Somebody could write a book with all the shenanigans Mike Kennedy has pulled over the years. But who would read it besides the handful of people still typing away in this thread? Less than 50 subscribers now... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
towmater Posted January 5, 2017 Share Posted January 5, 2017 I think we might consider the Steve Jobs reality distortion factor, and whether that success has somehow rubbed off on others who think that ignoring the facts and willing things into existence is a good business practice, or a good political practice in light of recent events. If the Chameleon had not been debunked, and enough orders were placed at Toy Fair, there might have been enough confidence for a bank to loan money to finance the CC and make it real. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andromeda Stardust Posted January 5, 2017 Share Posted January 5, 2017 while stuffing my pi in a jag shell, its a bit of a tight fit ... course that's PI, power supply, soft on / off circuit and dongles running off all over the place, but its a tidy console, not a deck of cards with a bunch of shit hanging out of it, and making look like an anime monster scene dangling about around the tv If you're going to spend time building an enclosure for your Pi, please don't half ass it! http://stardust4ever.deviantart.com/art/Raspberry-Pi-Arcade-DK-playing-DK-535882030 I think we might consider the Steve Jobs reality distortion factor, and whether that success has somehow rubbed off on others who think that ignoring the facts and willing things into existence is a good business practice, or a good political practice in light of recent events. If the Chameleon had not been debunked, and enough orders were placed at Toy Fair, there might have been enough confidence for a bank to loan money to finance the CC and make it real. Until all the venture capitalists want to know where their money went, and you have an internal investigation, and people file bankrupt or in some cases get to spend time in one of those posh federal prisons for former politicians, celebrities, and executives get to relax... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybercylon Posted January 5, 2017 Share Posted January 5, 2017 I'm not gonna lie, if a documentary of this whole saga is ever made, and it is released on Blu-ray/DVD/Laser disc/VHS/Betamax/whatever, I would buy the super ultimate limited classic collector's edition unrated director's cut with extra bonus content. Maybe even multiple copies if there were more than one color to choose from. Your deluxe edition will have a special case... disc inside a mini jag shell and a mini card board cut out of MK himself riding is bicy..... no, better not go there. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Osgeld Posted January 5, 2017 Share Posted January 5, 2017 (edited) If you're going to spend time building an enclosure for your Pi, please don't half ass it! have you hand sawn a SNES cart down almost 2 inches out of the middle, milled it flat in a bridgeport, chemically welded it back together, designed a MSATA bracket for it, filled the gaps up with bondo, painted it, and said "welp the easy part is done" will be finished before February 2017 4 designed from scratch and 3d printed parts, printed aluminum faceplate, hours of, cutting, sanding, filing, milling, measuring, painting (twice thanks krylon you suck) 16 gig ras PI 3 with 3 amp internal power supply, soft mac like soft boot and shutdown and a USB 3 128gig MSATA removeable cart remember when? oh yea im only starting my 3rd month of messing with it, and I can only work on it about 4 hours a day only on saturday's and sunday's, and about 1 month of that was doing other projects as stuff came in ... in other words WTF Mike?! took you like 2 years and 2 crud funding projects to end up with a SNES mini in a shell with shoe polish and electrical tape Edited January 5, 2017 by Osgeld 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toiletunes Posted January 5, 2017 Share Posted January 5, 2017 it would be entertaining to take a jag shell (with or without snezz) over to the Shark Tank people and ask for 2-3 million, and start calling them haters (once they stop laughing). As far as the documentary, it belongs on filmstrips with cassette audio. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flojomojo Posted January 5, 2017 Share Posted January 5, 2017 As far as the documentary, it belongs on filmstrips with cassette audio. +1 for filmstrip. Though vinyl would be warmer and more authentic to my personal nostalgic instincts. I could do the voiceover in my best Troy McClure if needed, once the requisite nine thousand dollars have been collected. You may remember me from Chameleon-related shitposts such as "Why Doesn't Mike Kennedy Answer These Simple, Direct Questions?" and "Wouldn't It Be Better To Apologize Instead of Throwing Your Friends Under the Bus?" 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flojomojo Posted January 5, 2017 Share Posted January 5, 2017 Cartridges are back! No Kickstarter or Jaguar shells needed. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UKMike Posted January 5, 2017 Share Posted January 5, 2017 The problem with documenting the whole saga in a book or on film is that unless it is done right, and either with or by those in the know, it may well fall into the trap of lazy journalism that we've seen from lots of the third party coverage on the topic (though by no means all). There is a great story to tell here, aside from the technical and gaming aspect that we all appreciate, where one man goes from "hero" to "villain" in pursuit of that good old evil, money, your money. At one point $2,000,000 of it. Any telling of the story would have to tell that transition and the reasons behind it. It would also have to tell the instances of history repeating itself and of pattern forming behaviour that mainly Pipercub has talked about in this thread; i.e. the appropriation of ideas, the diminishing of people's contributions once they become surplus to requirements, the multiple instances of asset stripping, the promises of payments in shares that are later deemed worthless when it comes time to buy them back and of course all of those people under the bus. With that in mind, there will be a book on the saga, the whole saga, and it will be an official book based on official sources and endorsed by those involved. It would be ironic to crowd fund it but at this stage it doesn't require any funding, it may do in the future, but at present this is still undecided. Currently, it just needs writing, and that is what is currently being done. As for a film, who knows, but as Pipercub has said, there are people in this thread with the skills to make one. It would make sense to base it on the book, or an adaptation of it, and if the right people are interested it might happen but right now there is a book in progress. There is no timescale on it and it won't be rushed. Whether people feel it is no longer relevant when it is complete is up to them, but the writing process is an interesting and a therapeutic one and it is interesting how some early events and small details take on a new light when considered as part of the big picture. It's also interesting to look at the phrasing of interview responses, even on earlier projects. Now, if somebody were to capture this whole thread and archive it, in a single document, that would be very helpful and worthy of a credit in the book.............. 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MCHufnagel Posted January 5, 2017 Share Posted January 5, 2017 Trilobites are fossils... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trilobite And most likely, so are the people who would want one! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S1500 Posted January 5, 2017 Share Posted January 5, 2017 Dominic Monaghan will play the part of UKMike. Slam-dunk casting. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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