2016 Flashback speculation thread

[atarifan88]

Cool they included it. What's the ROM list for the portable? Is it the full 101 games?

 

The ROM list for the portable hasn't been released yet. That is what we are waiting for during the next press release. Bill did say the portable will have only 60 games, but it will include an SD card slot to play ROMs we add so really the number of games in the system will be irrelevant at this point.

[Bill Loguidice]

 

The ROM list for the portable hasn't been released yet. That is what we are waiting for during the next press release. Bill did say the portable will have only 60 games, but it will include an SD card slot to play ROMs we add so really the number of games in the system will be irrelevant at this point.

 

All true. Unfortunately, it looks like compatibility is not amazing via the SD card slot. Maybe 80% of the library is compatible, maybe less. It seems it struggles over SD with software that not only uses special chips, but also special display modes and other "non-standard" effects. While the Atari Flashback Portable uses the most powerful hardware yet in an AtGames product, the software layer is still pretty much the same as it is on the Atari Flashback 7.

 

What the 2017 version of the hardware will look like, I'm not sure. We're changing hardware platforms for all the console stuff after the previously announced releases for this year, but it's uncertain at this time whether that will apply to the portables.

[atarifan88]

 

All true. Unfortunately, it looks like compatibility is not amazing via the SD card slot. Maybe 80% of the library is compatible, maybe less. It seems it struggles over SD with software that not only uses special chips, but also special display modes and other "non-standard" effects. While the Atari Flashback Portable uses the most powerful hardware yet in an AtGames product, the software layer is still pretty much the same as it is on the Atari Flashback 7.

 

What the 2017 version of the hardware will look like, I'm not sure. We're changing hardware platforms for all the console stuff after the previously announced releases for this year, but it's uncertain at this time whether that will apply to the portables.

 

Based on what you are saying, we shouldn't get our hopes up on the games it may or may not play as this it's full of bugs. Sounds like most homebrew games will not work which will be a shame because the idea would be to expand our Atari library instead of being limited like this one obviously is. Here's to hoping things improve over time on the software side.

[Bill Loguidice]

 

Based on what you are saying, we shouldn't get our hopes up on the games it may or may not play as this it's full of bugs. Sounds like most homebrew games will not work which will be a shame because the idea would be to expand our Atari library instead of being limited like this one obviously is. Here's to hoping things improve over time on the software side.

 

To clarify, the 60 built-in games work great and there are several original Atari 2600 games that work great (and probably some homebrews), but there will be disappointment with several notable titles not working. They either don't load at all or have corrupted visuals or missing hit detection, etc. I'm personally disappointed in Berzerk not working. It loads and seems to run fine, but you can't fire the gun, except sporadically. That's a strange one. Galaxian has no hit detection when you shoot the enemies. Etc. On the other hand, games like the original Space Invaders and Pac-Man seem to work perfectly fine.

Edited September 15, 2016 by Bill Loguidice

[atarifan88]

 

To clarify, the 60 built-in games work great and there are several original Atari 2600 games that work great (and probably some homebrews), but there will be disappointment with several notable titles not working. They either don't load at all or have corrupted visuals or missing hit detection, etc. I'm personally disappointed in Berzerk not working. It loads and seems to run fine, but you can't fire the gun, except sporadically. That's a strange one. Galaxian has no hit detection when you shoot the enemies. Etc. On the other hand, games like the original Space Invaders and Pac-Man seem to work perfectly fine.

 

Interesting. I would love to know if there is anyway to play Defender 2/Stargate because it requires two fire buttons. Have you had any success with Activision games, most notibly Chopper Command, Enduro, H.E.R.O., Pitfall, River Raid, & Robot Tank?

Edited September 15, 2016 by atarifan88

[Keatah]

Meatloaf rotation. As in the band's concert schedule, or mom's leftovers?

 

..as in the hot ball of stuff in my stomach. Twisting and churning all night.

[Bill Loguidice]

 

Interesting. I would love to know if there is anyway to play Defender 2/Stargate because it requires two fire buttons. Have you had any success with Activision games, most notibly Chopper Command, Enduro, H.E.R.O., Pitfall, River Raid, & Robot Tank?

 

HERO and Pitfall are good, but I either don't remember the others or haven't tried them yet. Space Shuttle also worked fine. Oink! does not work. I don't think I got around to trying any other Activison titles.

 

I haven't tested Defender 2/Stargate, but I'm not aware of a way to play it without a second joystick. The onboard controls replicate the left player joystick and fire button, as well as all the switches on a six switch unit. If a game uses any other controls, it won't work even if it loads and runs. Assuming the ROM loads and runs fine, maybe someone can hack it to make use of the switches instead of the second joystick for the non-main functions.

[+Tarzilla]

Here's the official game list for the Atari Flashback 7: http://armchairarcade.com/perspectives/2016/09/13/atari-flashback-7-2016-official-game-list/

 

Here's the official game list for the Classic Game Console: http://armchairarcade.com/perspectives/2016/09/13/sega-genesis-classic-game-console-2016-official-game-list/

 

Feel free to share the links in the appropriate threads.

 

Hopefully by next week they'll get the portables press release out and I can release those as well.

Thanks, they should be paying you bonus pay per post since you are doing a way better job of marketing than they appear to be doing as a whole company...

[Keatah]

They should, but they won't. If they can get something for free they're gonna take it. That way with any company.

[toiletunes]

if this thing 'only' plays 50% of the games, I'm ecstatic. That's easily twice as many as any other flashback (except maybe a modded FB2) AND, it's portable (a first). I call that a win.

[Andromeda Stardust]

if this thing 'only' plays 50% of the games, I'm ecstatic. That's easily twice as many as any other flashback (except maybe a modded FB2) AND, it's portable (a first). I call that a win.

Bugged or broken on 50% of games is pretty dang lousy honestly. Even if 20% of games did not work, it would still be unacceptable. It is proven now that the emulator on the portable fails on multiple bitd games that did not utilize undocumented opcodes, extra RAM, DCP, or otherwise sophisticated bankswitch circuits. Honestly I could deal with DPC+ not being emulated (I kinda expected stuff like Space Rocks not to work), but the fact there are all these issues even with the bitd romsets, is a buzzkill.

[Bill Loguidice]

Bugged or broken on 50% of games is pretty dang lousy honestly. Even if 20% of games did not work, it would still be unacceptable. It is proven now that the emulator on the portable fails on multiple bitd games that did not utilize undocumented opcodes, extra RAM, DCP, or otherwise sophisticated bankswitch circuits. Honestly I could deal with DPC+ not being emulated (I kinda expected stuff like Space Rocks not to work), but the fact there are all these issues even with the bitd romsets, is a buzzkill.

 

We'll see what the actual percentage ends up being, but even if it were 1% (and it's not), I do think it will still be in "buzzkill" territory for some people when their favorite game or games don't play. I'm not ready to do a comprehensive evaluation yet since I have a lot of other things to take care of first and I won't be allowed to release a review for a while, but I'm sure we can crowdsource a fairly comprehensive list of what does and does not work, and then the people who care (like those of us in this thread) can make a well-informed decision. I already have a list available that I can just add to, and maybe we can make that a public Google sheet or something when the time comes.

 

Even though it sucks, even if we get 300 out of 600 games that are 100%, that's ultimately not a complete disaster all things considered.

[Keatah]

Bugged or broken on 50% of games is pretty dang lousy honestly. Even if 20% of games did not work, it would still be unacceptable. It is proven now that the emulator on the portable fails on multiple bitd games that did not utilize undocumented opcodes, extra RAM, DCP, or otherwise sophisticated bankswitch circuits. Honestly I could deal with DPC+ not being emulated (I kinda expected stuff like Space Rocks not to work), but the fact there are all these issues even with the bitd romsets, is a buzzkill.

 

Granted.. If there are issues with 50% of the games, so to speak, what other minor glitches are going to show up in games that do work?

 

Again, it is important to keep in mind what this is intended to be. A stocking-stuffer type of gadget. Keep the perspective folks! If you're looking for a reference platform then you will need to go with Stella Emulator or real hardware.

Edited September 15, 2016 by Keatah

[Atariboy]

I'm not too surprised, I must say. While usually very playable, their emulator was always far from perfect and Bill's reports each year seemed to never mention it making any advances.

 

I hope the handheld and the lackluster compatibility realized with SD support serves as the impetus for them to make advances here finally.

 

While the Atari Flashback Portable uses the most powerful hardware yet in an AtGames product, the software layer is still pretty much the same as it is on the Atari Flashback 7.

 

What the 2017 version of the hardware will look like, I'm not sure. We're changing hardware platforms for all the console stuff after the previously announced releases for this year, but it's uncertain at this time whether that will apply to the portables.

 

So the more powerful handheld hardware isn't their next-gen hardware that we'll see with next year's consoles?

Edited September 16, 2016 by Atariboy

[Bill Loguidice]

 

So the more powerful handheld hardware isn't their next-gen hardware that we'll see with next year's consoles?

 

Correct. To put it simply, the Atari Flashback Portable uses a next generation version of what's in the Atari Flashback 7 (and more or less all the prior units). The software is the same, though, so you don't really get any improvements this year. AtGames is moving to a completely new hardware platform (no relation to anything they've used previously) for a potential limited edition (likely very limited) product later this year, and most, if not all, products for 2017.

 

Although it may not always seem like it, there have been a LOT of changes behind the scenes at AtGames. Lots of new people, marketing teams, IP partners, etc., and they'll be very active players as a company on PC, console, mobile, and physical classic gaming products going forward, with lots of big announcements still to come. A lot of changes/improvements though are dictated by retail cycles, which is something to keep in mind when from an outside perspective it seems like things should be changing/improving faster than they actually are (e.g., products need to be locked down many, many months in advance of making it to mass market retail shelves).

[Bill Loguidice]

 

Granted.. If there are issues with 50% of the games, so to speak, what other minor glitches are going to show up in games that do work?

 

Minor glitches, but still frustrating. For instance, in Pole Position, there's an odd graphical glitch in the lower left corner (although it's not really a distraction). In Ms. Pac-Man, the music is janky. Most issues with games that load and are otherwise fine are in the graphical corruption category, although when that happens it usually happens in a dramatic fashion to the point of the game being unplayable. Some of that might be fixed before it goes to full production, but I wouldn't necessarily count on it.

[Hyperboy]

@Bill Any morsels of info you can provide on the possible limited edition you mentioned?

 

Sent from my non beer holding hand.

[Bill Loguidice]

@Bill Any morsels of info you can provide on the possible limited edition you mentioned?

 

Sent from my non beer holding hand.

 

It's not an Atari product. It may come out in November in very limited quantities at one of the largest online retailers only. It will be the likely model that all future consoles from AtGames will follow, with one notable exception. I really can't say anymore.

[Hyperboy]

 

It's not an Atari product. It may come out in November in very limited quantities at one of the largest online retailers only. It will be the likely model that all future consoles from AtGames will follow, with one notable exception. I really can't say anymore.

Thanks for the info Bill. As always, your insight is much appreciated!

 

Sent from my non beer holding hand.

[Mr SQL]

 

Minor glitches, but still frustrating. For instance, in Pole Position, there's an odd graphical glitch in the lower left corner (although it's not really a distraction). In Ms. Pac-Man, the music is janky. Most issues with games that load and are otherwise fine are in the graphical corruption category, although when that happens it usually happens in a dramatic fashion to the point of the game being unplayable. Some of that might be fixed before it goes to full production, but I wouldn't necessarily count on it.

 

 

Although it may not always seem like it, there have been a LOT of changes behind the scenes at AtGames. Lots of new people, marketing teams, IP partners, etc., and they'll be very active players as a company on PC, console, mobile, and physical classic gaming products going forward, with lots of big announcements still to come. A lot of changes/improvements though are dictated by retail cycles, which is something to keep in mind when from an outside perspective it seems like things should be changing/improving faster than they actually are (e.g., products need to be locked down many, many months in advance of making it to mass market retail shelves).

 

AtGames marketing message is "An Atari 2600 portable with an SD card to play classic Atari games besides Pitfall II", only it cannot play classics like Ms Pacman or Berzerk.

 

This is reminiscent of the initial FB1 marketing message "An Atari console with classic Atari games built in" except there were no Atari games.

 

With the FB2, Atgames created a real Atari on a chip; seems to me it would make sense to either use that chipset in a portable or license Stella and run it on their powerful hardware since Stella can actually run all of the classics (32-bit ARM CPU emulation which requires far more processing power can be easily removed from Stella and Pitfall II would still run).

 

But having created a custom Atari chipset is no small undertaking and that's already been completed so what is the logical reason not to reuse that technology or a variation? Sometimes it comes down to personal feelings and rival technology teams; there have been several design interations and many years of development that make a continued disconnnect very difficult to explain.

 

Marketing may be short sighted here, I think lots of folk will buy the portable Atari because it says portable Atari, and more will buy it because of the SD card expecting to run classic games and then be disappointed that they do not run.

 

Marketing is correct that the former group is much larger but the latter can have a lasting impact and continue to grow sales of the portable; I know I'd like to support it with an IDE for programmers to build classic games for the device, but it must be capable of running classics for that to happen.

 

[Bill Loguidice]

AtGames generally likes to do everything in-house. It also can be difficult to properly license open source emulators for various reasons. Regardless, the best thing to say is it's not a static process and things really are rapidly evolving. And even if the 2016 product doesn't meet everyone's needs and some people choose to pass, there's always the 2017 product.

[Atariboy]

AtGames marketing message is "An Atari 2600 portable with an SD card to play classic Atari games besides Pitfall II", only it cannot play classics like Ms Pacman or Berzerk.

 

My impression has been that they're not pushing that feature, just as they never made much mention of it with their past Sega products that included it as well. Take this press release that Bill posted, for instance.

 

http://armchairarcade.com/perspectives/2016/07/27/press-release-atgames-release-latest-generation-atari-flashback-genesis-classic-game-console-products/

 

So I'd hardly say that they're contradicting a major portion of their marketing for this device just because of these issues that Bill has been discovering.

[Bill Loguidice]

 

My impression has been that they're not pushing that feature, just as they never made much mention of it with their past Sega products that included it as well. Take this press release that Bill posted, for instance.

 

http://armchairarcade.com/perspectives/2016/07/27/press-release-atgames-release-latest-generation-atari-flashback-genesis-classic-game-console-products/

 

So I'd hardly say that they're contradicting a major portion of their marketing for this device just because of these issues that Bill has been discovering.

 

Your impression is correct, but also because we have to be careful with how much we promote SD card features, period. The IP companies could easily balk if it's over-promoted. Crazy, I know, but I suppose it's understandable on one level. After all, it's a way to get "free" games. Personally, I don't think it matters because that genie left the bottle a long, long time ago, but it always takes business interests a while to catch up.

[Andromeda Stardust]

Kirk surprised.jpg

 

 

AtGames marketing message is "An Atari 2600 portable with an SD card to play classic Atari games besides Pitfall II", only it cannot play classics like Ms Pacman or Berzerk.

This is no different than say the SNES Everdrive not working with FX or SA-1 games. However to Krikzz credit, all non-chipped games run flawless because they're playing on original hardware. The Atgames emulations are less than perfect track record...

 

This is reminiscent of the initial FB1 marketing message "An Atari console with classic Atari games built in" except there were no Atari games.

That's because it was using an NES-on-a-chip.

 

With the FB2, Atgames created a real Atari on a chip; seems to me it would make sense to either use that chipset in a portable or license Stella and run it on their powerful hardware since Stella can actually run all of the classics (32-bit ARM CPU emulation which requires far more processing power can be easily removed from Stella and Pitfall II would still run).

 

But having created a custom Atari chipset is no small undertaking and that's already been completed so what is the logical reason not to reuse that technology or a variation? Sometimes it comes down to personal feelings and rival technology teams; there have been several design interations and many years of development that make a continued disconnnect very difficult to explain.

FB2 Atari-on-a-chip was Curt's design, not Atgames. Atgames did not put out the FB1 (NES-on-a-chip with far East developed game clones) either. All modern FBs use ARM CPU with emulation.

[Asaki]

With the FB2, Atgames created a real Atari on a chip...

 

But having created a custom Atari chipset is no small undertaking and that's already been completed so what is the logical reason not to reuse that technology or a variation? Sometimes it comes down to personal feelings and rival technology teams; there have been several design interations and many years of development that make a continued disconnnect very difficult to explain.

Hmm...perhaps the "logical reason" is that Atgames did not create Curt's hardware, or distribute it