Nintendo Classic Mini announced

[Flojomojo]

It doesn't matter, because nothing like that is going to be left accessible to the end user. This isn't Nintendo's first rodeo. Expect a closed system and get it for the games, not to destroy it in an attempt to make it "better."

[+5-11under]

What does that matter if its EEPROM or not? For modding purposes?

 

It doesn't matter, because nothing like that is going to be left accessible to the end user. This isn't Nintendo's first rodeo. Expect a closed system and get it for the games, not to destroy it in an attempt to make it "better."

 

Yes, for modding purposes. It was possible for the recent ATGames Flashbacks, and might be in this case. Who knows? We'll see. I'm sure a few people will open them up and take pictures... and if there's a packaged EEPROM, there's a good chance for some relatively easy hacking. If it's a globbed chip, that'd likely be beyond what I would want to start modding (too much work for too little gain).

[Andromeda Stardust]

Yes but most of these games are expensive not because they are rare but because they are good bubble bobble, Kirby, castlevanna, heck super Mario 3 just to name three are a lot of times more then they should be because the person selling it knows they are games people really want so this as a way to get them that will be a lot cheaper.

It's because nearly everyone who gets an NES wants those titles, thus being common and also holding value. And the availability of cheap clones only furthers the demand for the great games. Uncommon "hidden gems" and genuine rares have gone up more as a side effect of youtube culture leading people to discover games, and the notable mid-to-high triple digit "unicorn" titles largely are heavily inflated due in part to collectors trying to acquire complete sets, but also speculators who buy up hot titles with the understanding or belief that the value will continue to rise, resulting in a tidy profit margin.

[Andromeda Stardust]

 

 

Yes, for modding purposes. It was possible for the recent ATGames Flashbacks, and might be in this case. Who knows? We'll see. I'm sure a few people will open them up and take pictures... and if there's a packaged EEPROM, there's a good chance for some relatively easy hacking. If it's a globbed chip, that'd likely be beyond what I would want to start modding (too much work for too little gain).

What gives you the impression that the data won't either be encrypted or encased inside a glop top? Maybe Nintendo create a custom ASIC with the CPU and game data embedded in a single die. Then it would be nigh impossible to extract without decapping the chip. I'm sure that Nintendo will make it incredibly difficult to hack this console. Maybe a guy like Kevtris could figure out how to inject ROMs, but he has zero motivation to reverse assemble the little fun box when he has bigger projects like converting every classic console from PONG to 16-bit era over to FGPA.

 

And if someone posts a Youtube video with injected ROMs running on an NES Classic Mini, so what? They will get a bunch of thumbs up, street cred, and possibly get a Pat and Ian segment devoted to their accomplishment. It's not like if anybody successfully hacks this device, they will offer this mod service so people would pay gobs of money to swap out a flash chip to run custom firmware. Might as well buy an AVS and a pair it with a PowerPak or Everdrive if you wanna go full mod, and get a feature loaded HD NES with thousands of games and features above and beyond what the NES Classic Mini offers.

[Gentlegamer]

It doesn't matter, because nothing like that is going to be left accessible to the end user. This isn't Nintendo's first rodeo. Expect a closed system and get it for the games, not to destroy it in an attempt to make it "better."

 

Ben Heck laughs.

[+5-11under]

What gives you the impression that the data won't either be encrypted or encased inside a glop top? Maybe Nintendo create a custom ASIC with the CPU and game data embedded in a single die. Then it would be nigh impossible to extract without decapping the chip. I'm sure that Nintendo will make it incredibly difficult to hack this console. Maybe a guy like Kevtris could figure out how to inject ROMs, but he has zero motivation to reverse assemble the little fun box when he has bigger projects like converting every classic console from PONG to 16-bit era over to FGPA.

 

And if someone posts a Youtube video with injected ROMs running on an NES Classic Mini, so what? They will get a bunch of thumbs up, street cred, and possibly get a Pat and Ian segment devoted to their accomplishment. It's not like if anybody successfully hacks this device, they will offer this mod service so people would pay gobs of money to swap out a flash chip to run custom firmware. Might as well buy an AVS and a pair it with a PowerPak or Everdrive if you wanna go full mod, and get a feature loaded HD NES with thousands of games and features above and beyond what the NES Classic Mini offers.

 

I have no impressions of what is inside. I need to wait to see the insides, then I'll have a better idea of how difficult it might be. If it has a separate non glob top EEPROM, I'll probably give it a try. Otherwise, I likely won't bother, because that would take too much effort and/or would be beyond my capabilities. I also have no idea if Kevtris would do such a thing, but it seems like he's done plenty of things just for the fun of it, or out of curiosity.

 

If you mod it, you'd also get a little system with potentially all the games you like, which for me, has a lot of appeal. Usually these sorts of systems have very limited appeal because my tastes in video games is very particular, but if I can choose the games, then my appeal for the system increases.

[Keatah]

Gloptops are more for cost reduction. They just put the chip on the PCB and seal it up. Saves a billion intermediate steps like designing and procuring a dip chip, inserting it. And it even saves space.

[RevEng]

If it's based on the virtual console, it will almost certainly run off internal NAND storage like the Wii, Wii-U, 3DS, ... , rather than an EEPROM. The NAND in those devices is encrypted with a per-console key.

 

Hacking that sort of setup takes a very specialized skillset, including fine-pitch soldering, bus sniffing, and a whole lot of reverse engineering knowhow.

 

Your best hope would be for a heavy lifter to take that on, and find an easier exploit for the masses... if the console has any removable media (e.g. for saves) or online access then there's a chance. If it's really a closed platform then the chances for a useful exploit are dramatically reduced.

[+save2600]

Bought an HDMI to CVBS converter today in anticipation of this new toy. Too bad it doesn't do composite out natively like ALL the other plug and play systems. Not a fan classic gaming on todays monitors.

[Andromeda Stardust]

 

Ben Heck laughs.

Ben Heck's mod work has more to do with physically altering the consoles, sometimes in extraordinary ways, than doing low level electrical work or changing the behavior of the electronics. That is more in Kevtris' realm.

 

Bought an HDMI to CVBS converter today in anticipation of this new toy. Too bad it doesn't do composite out natively like ALL the other plug and play systems. Not a fan classic gaming on todays monitors.

My setup consists of a CRT (RF/Composite) and 1080p PC monitor (HDMI, DVI, VGA). So while I have no use for fancy things like RGB, et al, I can run the baseline signal from any unmodded console. The HDMI enabled systems get the 1080p monitor, and the SD systems get RF or composte to the CRT. Best of both worlds.

 

I also like to split off the audio to a discrete RCA stereo with hifi speakers, because the tinny built in speakers on flat panels suck donkey. My HDMI switch already has audio bypass via a 1/8" stereo jack so I'm good.

[Pixelboy]

For some insane reason, I completely overlooked this thread and I had to read all 18 pages of it to catch up.

 

First of all, this new NES Mini is quite cool and I'll either buy one myself, or ask a friend/relative to buy it if he/she is not sure what to get me for Christmas. As others have said, the selection of 30 games is very good (although I would replace Castlevania II with Blaster Master or Crystalis if I could) and HDMI is a big plus in my book.

 

But for those who are hoping for a future "upgraded" version of this NES Mini with more games, what shape do you expect it to take? A miniature top loader? They can't do the toaster again or it will be confusing for impulse buyers.

 

Anyway, I would obviously like to see a Super-NES Mini, but I expect that the hardware inside will be more complex, which will drive up the cost and the retail price. On the plus side, Nintendo released enough awesome first-party games on the Super-NES that they can just put their own titles on this mini with no third-party titles at all, and it would still sell very well (although I would be sad over the lack of such landmark titles as Super Castlevania IV, Breath of Fire, Chrono Trigger, Mega Man X and Street Fighter II, just to name a few).

 

If the NES Mini does well enough that the shirts at Nintendo end up seriously considering continuing down this "Flashback path", then the next logical step should be the Game Boy. They already have a current handheld (the 3DS) that can potentially run any Game Boy game, so releasing a handheld with a limited selection of games would be kind of silly, especially with the added hassle of batteries (rechargeable or not).

 

On the other hand, many people have enjoyed playing Game Boy games on their TVs with either the Super Game Boy or the Game Boy Player, so if it was up to me to come up with a new Nintendo mini for the retail market, I would recycle the form factor of the NES Advantage controller into a Game-Boy-on-TV device, with a selection of games like this one:

 

1 - Alleyway (Nintendo)

2 - Battletoads (Rare/Tradewest)

3 - Bionic Commando (Capcom)

4 - Castlevania Adventure (Konami)

5 - Castlevania II - Belmont's Revenge (Konami)

6 - Donkey Kong '94 (Nintendo)

7 - Donkey Kong Land (Nintendo)

8 - Final Fantasy Legend (Square)

9 - Game & Watch Gallery (Nintendo)

10 - Gargoyle's Quest (Capcom)

11 - Killer Instinct (Nintendo)

12 - Kirby's Dream Land (Nintendo)

13 - Kirby's Dream Land 2 (Nintendo)

14 - Mario's Picross (Nintendo)

15 - Mega Man V (Capcom)

16 - Metroid II - Return of Samus (Nintendo)

17 - Nemesis (Konami)

18 - Operation C (Konami)

19 - Pinball: Revenge of the 'Gator (HAL)

20 - Pokémon Yellow (Nintendo)

21 - Quarth (Konami)

22 - SolarStriker (Nintendo)

23 - Super Mario Land (Nintendo)

24 - Super Mario Land 2: Six Golden Coins (Nintendo)

25 - Super RC Pro AM (Nintendo)

26 - Tetris (Nintendo)

27 - The Legend of Zelda: Link's Awakening (Nintendo)

28 - Wario Land (Super Mario Land 3) (Nintendo)

29 - Wizards & Warriors X: The Fortress of Fear (Rare/Acclaim)

30 - Yoshi (Nintendo)

 

So just like the NES Mini, it would feature a majority of first-party games (marked in bold above) together with several high-profile third-party titles. Throw in HDMI output, a connector port for plugging the same NES controller that will be released alongside the NES Mini (just in case you prefer playing with a NES pad instead of the large built-in Advantage joystick) and the ability to use this same connector port with a custom link cable kit (so you could play two-player games by linking up two GB minis) and I think you've got a rather attractive retail product for impulse buyers.

 

We can even continue the mini series by moving up to the Game Boy Color. The NES Advantage form factor could again be used, but the casing would be neon green (while the previous GB mini would be the same grey color as the original Game Boy) so you could immediately tell these minis apart. Consider these titles for a GBC Mini:

 

1 - Bionic Commando - Elite Forces (Nintendo)

2 - Blaster Master - Enemy Below (Sunsoft)

3 - Bomberman Quest (Hudson)

4 - Conker's Pocket Tales (Nintendo)

5 - Crystalis (SNK/Nintendo)

6 - Donkey Kong Country (Nintendo)

7 - Dragon Warrior I & II (Enix)

8 - Duke Nukem (GT Interactive)

9 - Harvest Moon (Natsume/Nintendo)

10 - Mega Man Xtreme (Capcom)

11 - Metal Gear: Ghost Babel (Konami)

12 - Paperboy (Midway)

13 - Perfect Dark (Nintendo)

14 - Pokémon Crystal (Nintendo)

15 - Pokémon Pinball (Nintendo)

16 - Pokémon Puzzle Challenge (Nintendo)

17 - Rayman (Ubisoft)

18 - Resident Evil Gaiden (Capcom)

19 - Return of the Ninja (Natsume)

20 - R-Type DX (Nintendo)

21 - Shantae (Capcom)

22 - Street Fighter Alpha (Capcom)

23 - Super Mario Bros Deluxe (Nintendo)

24 - The Legend of Zelda - Oracle of Ages (Nintendo)

25 - The Legend of Zelda - Oracle of Seasons (Nintendo)

26 - Tomb Raider (THQ / Eidos)

27 - Turok - Rage Wars (Acclaim)

28 - Wario Land II (Nintendo)

29 - Wario Land 3 (Nintendo)

 

Yeah, I know I'm dreaming (in both black-and-white and color) but still, it seems like a cool idea to me, which would tie casual Nintendo fans over while Nintendo works on a Super-NES mini.

[Austin]

If the internals of the NES Mini basically equates to a disc-less Wii, then you can bet they've already got the hardware to do a SNES Mini, or even a Nintendo 64 Mini down the road. I can't wait for the thing to release so we know what's actually inside of it.

[0078265317]

I still think SD card is a good idea. Even without roms you can resell mini sd cards like games and add to the library. And no need for a mini 2 or 3 or 4 like flashbacks did with atari. Just make one unit and add A SD lot or USB port. And then keep adding games or even possibly make new ones. Otherwise they have to make a new flashback to add 30 more games. I mean if they charge for VC games on the WII why not make this a mini WII. Why can't this do the same thing and charge for games.

[Andromeda Stardust]

 

Ben Heck laughs.

I just thought up an awesome Ben Heck style hardware mod for the Mini.

 

The lid on the NES Mini opens up to accept Game Boy carts inserted sideways. Somehow the Super Game Boy and cloned SNES hardware gets stuffed inside the tiny console!

[NinjaWarrior]

When is the Pre-Order going live at GameStop?

[phoenixdownita]

.... Why can't this do the same thing and charge for games.

Because they decided to tackle a different market, the plug&play market.

Check it out, Jakks tried to introduce "carts" (called game keys by jakks) it simply didn't work and it was abandoned for self-contained closed units as it started.

 

If big N want to release a new HDMI NES (emulation based or otherwise) with support for some form of cart/SD/whathaveyou they can, they chose not to, nothing wrong with their decision. If they want to make 30 editions in the next 30Y it's again their decision, nothing wrong with it, if they turn 360 and they add a "cart" slot then again their decision.

 

Does it explain it a little? Lots of people seem excited about it as it is so they did do a lot right already, you have to owe it to big N.

We still need to see it in action for sure, but so far aside from people that want something else (so obviously cannot be satisfied by this unit), it seems the reactions are pretty positive.

[Keatah]

We must remember these little units are what they are. Everything extra discovered after they hit the market should be considered an extra bonus.

 

Instead we got people complaining and saying well I'm not gonna buy this if it doesn't do this this or this and that and everything under the sun.

 

Keep the perspective!

[atarilovesyou]

Bought an HDMI to CVBS converter today in anticipation of this new toy. Too bad it doesn't do composite out natively like ALL the other plug and play systems. Not a fan classic gaming on todays monitors.

 

...but you may end up liking this, as I'm sure Nintendo will do something to 'smooth' things out so they don't look so jagged on a modern TV. Well...that's what I'd assume. It is a modern device, I'd expect them to take that into account.

[atarilovesyou]

Because they decided to tackle a different market, the plug&play market.

Check it out, Jakks tried to introduce "carts" (called game keys by jakks) it simply didn't work and it was abandoned for self-contained closed units as it started.

 

If big N want to release a new HDMI NES (emulation based or otherwise) with support for some form of cart/SD/whathaveyou they can, they chose not to, nothing wrong with their decision. If they want to make 30 editions in the next 30Y it's again their decision, nothing wrong with it, if they turn 360 and they add a "cart" slot then again their decision.

 

Does it explain it a little? Lots of people seem excited about it as it is so they did do a lot right already, you have to owe it to big N.

We still need to see it in action for sure, but so far aside from people that want something else (so obviously cannot be satisfied by this unit), it seems the reactions are pretty positive.

 

The keys were a great idea...horrible execution, just like most things Jakks.

 

They just re-released games you could get on OTHER devices...and to top that, these sticks came out AFTER the earlier ones included ALL those games!...at a higher price, no less

 

Let's just not speak of Jakks. They just...don't care enough

 

A final note about the Flashback 2.0: the modding capability on this thing was DESIGNED from the get-go. I highly doubt that Nintendo would do such a thing. And, all major reissues of the flashback no longer have anything mod-able to them. So you can tell it actually cost money to give us modding niche folk that capability. Which is why I supported the original FB: it was just a great product from people who really cared.

[Keatah]

A final note about the Flashback 2.0: the modding capability on this thing was DESIGNED from the get-go. I highly doubt that Nintendo would do such a thing. And, all major reissues of the flashback no longer have anything mod-able to them. So you can tell it actually cost money to give us modding niche folk that capability. Which is why I supported the original FB: it was just a great product from people who really cared.

 

I rather think that they were experimenting with different methods of running the games. And this method that happened to allow modding was, yes, rather expensive. But not because it allowed modding, but because of the technical non-emulation approach.

 

Nowadays I'm pretty sure it's SoC and cheap-o software emulation.

[Andromeda Stardust]

 

 

 

A final note about the Flashback 2.0: the modding capability on this thing was DESIGNED from the get-go. I highly doubt that Nintendo would do such a thing. And, all major reissues of the flashback no longer have anything mod-able to them. So you can tell it actually cost money to give us modding niche folk that capability. Which is why I supported the original FB: it was just a great product from people who really cared.

Curt snuck that in when he designed it. The FB2 used the Atari-on-a-chip which had bugs not unlike the NES-on-a-chip they used for the FB1. I have the Flashback Joystick. The NES conversions aren't terrible but they don't exactly feel right either.

 

Some dude on Etsy apparently dumped Missile Command, Yars, and Centipede and was selling NES repros, believe it or not.

 

Anyhow the FB3 and onwards used ARM. Hopefully next years have HDMI. Nintendo didn't have any trouble doing it in theirs!

[CrazyChris]

I'll wait for the Nintendo 64 version.

[0078265317]

Because they decided to tackle a different market, the plug&play market.

Check it out, Jakks tried to introduce "carts" (called game keys by jakks) it simply didn't work and it was abandoned for self-contained closed units as it started.

 

If big N want to release a new HDMI NES (emulation based or otherwise) with support for some form of cart/SD/whathaveyou they can, they chose not to, nothing wrong with their decision. If they want to make 30 editions in the next 30Y it's again their decision, nothing wrong with it, if they turn 360 and they add a "cart" slot then again their decision.

 

Does it explain it a little? Lots of people seem excited about it as it is so they did do a lot right already, you have to owe it to big N.

We still need to see it in action for sure, but so far aside from people that want something else (so obviously cannot be satisfied by this unit), it seems the reactions are pretty positive.

Ya but that was a disappointment. I havr a game key with blue controller with mspacman and few others (i forget). Digdug and rally x was in back. The key was great. If they did that then I don't need to buy new controller. Just keys. Shame it did not last. Its not failed. Its just how they make money. Force you to buy new stuff everytime.

 

Nintendo will never add an SD slot just like Ipad never will but android does. Nobody will upgrade or buy an FB2 if they add an SD slot.

[NinjaWarrior]

Sega should revoke AtGames license to make Genesis Clones

 

To make there own Genesis Clone

[+GoldLeader]

I really enjoy reading this thread!

 

While I agree with Keatah that we might like to keep a little perspective; The Dreamer in me wishes Nintendo would hire some of you guys! It's not even that you all have great business ideas, but rather that you think more like me and can see the possibilities. (You don't seem so corporate, if that makes sense). I believe creative minds should be encouraged, and, like a lot of you, I remember the old days when anticipation and fanciful speculation were much more a part of the hobby...If you just read any letters page from an early game mag, it's all about what games are coming out and will they be available for the system you own and would your system be able to handle this game or that game, and will it look or play like the arcade game etc. Back then there were times we didn't even know when a game was coming out or if it would make it to store shelves. Hell, One of the reasons I bought Star Castle Arcade for the Atari, was because a game mag in the 80's told me that that was impossible;...Maybe I Never liked that "Can't Do" Attitude...

 

 

 

 

0078265317, on 18 Jul 2016 - 8:19 PM, said:

 

 

Well if the emulation is decent enough then I can sell my originals and just keep this thing posibly.

 

Just wanted to add a quick note. I don't know why, but whenever I have gotten rid of originals in the past, whether it was because I could emulate them or had a disc copy, or a multicart or built in game of it, I always regretted it in the end. Unless I really needed the money or it was a game I knew I wasn't going to play again...Then again that could just be me...