AVGCART

[Mclaneinc]

37 minutes ago, Steril707 said:

should I buy all the cables as well?

 

The SIO cable is a must, depends re the other cables if you want a ram expansion via the PBI..

 

Edit: Re Extra RAM, I'd go the Ultimate 1MB route for extra ram, the additional extra benefits of the U1MB are well worth it, but if you want a solder free mem upgrade, then the PBI cable sounds good..

Edited September 7, 2022 by Mclaneinc

[Steril707]

45 minutes ago, Mclaneinc said:

 

The SIO cable is a must, depends re the other cables if you want a ram expansion via the PBI..

 

Edit: Re Extra RAM, I'd go the Ultimate 1MB route for extra ram, the additional extra benefits of the U1MB are well worth it, but if you want a solder free mem upgrade, then the PBI cable sounds good..

Hey mate, thanks for the fast answer...

I'll probably be happy for a solder free upgrade first off. Just to test play a few games and test the stuff I coded myself on there.

What's the SIO cable doing?

 

add/edit: Ah, Google is my friend...  "you do this, you will be able to use the AVGCART as a virtual Disk drive system which can be used to load and save data to and from the AVGCART. You will also be able to use the AVGCART as a virtual Cassette player that can load CAS files."

 

Sounds splendid. Will get this as well.

 

add/edit2: bought...

Edited September 7, 2022 by Steril707

[tmp]

48 minutes ago, Mclaneinc said:

Edit: Re Extra RAM, I'd go the Ultimate 1MB route for extra ram, the additional extra benefits of the U1MB are well worth it

what are they? (an honest question, i've always used it just as a mem expansion when i had it installed but there might be something more that i should implement)

15 minutes ago, Steril707 said:

What's the SIO cable doing?

i'd say that if you don't need 100% atr compatiblity (there are some games that don't use os routines for floppy access) and don't need to emulate tapes, you should be fine with just pbi/eci cable

 

EDIT: ok, too late

Edited September 7, 2022 by tmp

[Mclaneinc]

35 minutes ago, tmp said:

what are they? (an honest question, i've always used it just as a mem expansion when i had it installed but there might be something more that i should implement)

Change of OS & Basic, quite handy, variations of mem size for the very few items that don't like certain sizes...

 

Sure, most folk will use it as a mem upgrade first and foremost, but I do like to boot into Omnimon a lot as the sad hacker type in me just feeds on that stuff.

 

 I'm not saying it's the Swiss Army Knife of Atari upgrades, but it is handy and has other uses..

 

I did endorse the PBI cable as a good alternative..

 

@Steril707 I know tmp is just being a decent bloke saying the SIO cable isn't required (which is true as it has a fairly good atr loader) but for a small amount of money it gives almost 100% standard disk and tape loading, it also adds protected software loading in the form of ATX support. I love my AVG, I adopted the SIO cable as soon as it was out and never looked back. I don't have a real drive hooked up, no need..

 

Like many on here, I'd never just recommend an item just to help a hardware supplier, I base it on it's use to the person asking. Don't get me wrong, I support the devs hands down but there's no point recommending a super fast sports car for someone who just wants to nip down to the shops..

Edited September 7, 2022 by Mclaneinc

[mimo]

1 hour ago, Steril707 said:

I'll probably be happy for a solder free upgrade first off. Just to test play a few games and test the stuff I coded myself on there.

Yep, It's brilliant in that regard. I use it pretty much all the time on my 600xl and 65xe. I do have a 1meg that needs to be installed on something but as I pretty much just play games and demos it's perfect
And I agree that the SIO cable is a must, without it you still get loads of functionality but the extra stuff is well worth the small outlay 

[tmp]

33 minutes ago, Mclaneinc said:

Change of OS & Basic, quite handy, variations of mem size for the very few items that don't like certain sizes...

os/basic slots are planned, i just need to figure out how i want to allow them to be flashed

limiting extram size is possible, any examples of sw that doesn't like it too big?

[Mclaneinc]

5 minutes ago, tmp said:

os/basic slots are planned, i just need to figure out how i want to allow them to be flashed

limiting extram size is possible, any examples of sw that doesn't like it too big?

Loving the OS idea, thanks in advance..

 

As for the mem haters, god, the only one I can think of off the top of my head is a version of Bounty Bob that will only work on 64K, it was found on the Altirra thread and Avery told us why it didn't work. There some other that I can't remember (not large numbers, just a few, nothing to make changes for as I believe version were hacked or just were different in release form.)

 

I'd not bother with the last thing, hardly a mega issue.

[Mr Robot]

3 hours ago, tmp said:

any examples of sw that doesn't like it too big?

There's this one... 

 

[tmp]

that's a different case, that game doesn't like any extram at all and fix is to disable extram which is possible, i was asking about sw that e.g. works with 192k or 320k but doesn't work with 576k

[Mclaneinc]

1 minute ago, tmp said:

that's a different case, that game doesn't like any extram at all and fix is to disable extram which is possible, i was asking about sw that e.g. works with 192k or 320k but doesn't work with 576k

Sorry, I don't know of any that match that situation, only a few items that don't work on above 64K..

[Mr Robot]

There are some titles that won't work with more than 48k or more than 64k (I vaguely remember one that needed 16k and no more too) and some that need extended memory of a specific type (compy/rambo) but I don't think I've ever seen a title that needs extended ram but won't work if you have too much of it. Once you get beyond 128K you are mostly talking home-brew/scene, or cart/disk to xex conversions and they all seem to be happy with any amount of ram as long as you meet the base requirement. 

 

[MrFSL]

6 hours ago, Mclaneinc said:

no point recommending a super fast sports car for someone who just wants to nip down to the shops..

Probably because you have never taken a super fast sports car to nip down to the shops? -- Beware making assumptions.

 

 

There is a bunch of kit out there for Atari which makes this hobby fun. For me the first device I would recommend is a Syscheck II card as it has been marvelous for maintaining my Atari's and comes with the additional mem upgrade and OS switching. I wouldn't recommend it at all though if it were not for the fact that it has PBI pass-through. 

 

After that though the list of things that people seem to want:

 

Load Cassette images

Load Disk Images

Load Cartridge Images

Mass Storage (IDE/SIDE)

SpartaDOSX

Memory Upgrade

Transfer files from PC to Atari and Atari to PC

 

Yeah --- the AVG (with all its cables) does all that... and more, which is nice for the person who thinks they need to nip down to the shops, because they couldn't imagine how nice it would be to go other places. But also, to my knowledge, there isn't another device that does all the AVG can do, yet.

 

And tmp considering adding OS switching demonstrates another point...

6 hours ago, Mclaneinc said:

Like many on here, I'd never just recommend an item just to help a hardware supplier, I base it on it's use to the person asking.

I know what you are saying but, something has to be said about the hardware supplier and their support of their products. tmp is always quick to respond, above and beyond on solving your fringe usage cases, and constantly upgrading his work. Even if that means redesigning around chip shortages, for instance. So I agree, I'd never recommend an item to help a hardware supplier, but I would not discount that supplier as being a major value added to any product you buy. Perhaps tmp will someday add a Syscheck like feature to the AVG (I wouldn't doubt it.) Perhaps one day he will implement a passthrough on the PBI cable (I wouldn't doubt it.) --- Eventually there will be no feature not available on the AVG (is my guess.) But that speaks to what was going to be my original point --- for me having an Atari that can do X, Y, and Z in nice but not enough to keep me interested. Once it can do everything you can think of then what? I truly enjoy all the hardware options that are out there. I like acquiring them and seeing how they work and interacting with the community of people that put their time into it. Its this new gear that keeps me coming back and keeps me interested, personally.

 

My daily driver Atari is a Antonia, IDE+ v2.0, and Fujinet on a 800XL with a Indus GT and occasionally a AVG. 

 

I have a 600XL I use quite a bit with an Antonia and AVG.

 

I have a 130XE with bad RAM above 64k that I use a Sysheck II, IDE+, and Homemade SIO2PC cable and occasionally a AVG.

 

I prefer components that I can swap around without soldering and for that reason I don't own a U1MB. There is a new PBI device coming out that gives a solderless external U1MB... I am sure I will own one.  If there is a new user looking for a new device for a working Atari I would recommend AVG with all the cables regardless of price, due to the ratio of price to value while figuring in learning curve and portability. If they find themselves needing to do OS switching I would recommend the Syscheck II card and for the same reasons. The combination can undoubtedly do as much or more than the U1MB.

 

 

 

 

 

[Mclaneinc]

I'm just saying that I have no right to spend other people's money on stuff they may not need.

 

And yes I like to support the devs where I can, but even tmp was himself talking the person out of his products, again, like me, he's just trying to make a good choice for the person. 

 

And as for beware of making assumptions, I actually have taken a superfast sports car to the local shops. It's fair to say it was a VERY long time ago and the car wasn't mine (was a Lotus Esprit that belonged to a programmer mate (no name dropping)). It's actually why I used the example

 

It's a hard trade off to offer advice and try and keep the devs getting more work, but then again, it's a personal opinion..

 

Paul..

[+CharlieChaplin]

7 hours ago, tmp said:

limiting extram size is possible, any examples of sw that doesn't like it too big?

 

- 2 Unlimited Demo by Mark Watson, requires 128k RAM, does NOT require sep. Antic access, uses Atari Basic and does not seem to run with most ram enhancements bigger than 128k (maybe the Basic listing needs some changes, but I am no programmer); with 512k ram enhancement by mega-hz it shows more and more garbage, but to my surprise at the end it runs and plays the sample, with most other ram enhancements it completely crashes during loading

 

- X-Demo by MadTeam requires 320k RAM, works with 512k enhancement by mega-hz in 576k mode, does not work with internal 512k enhancement by tf_hh in 576k mode (works in 320k mode), does not work with Sys-check by tf_hh in 576k mode, does not work with U1MB in 1088k and 576k mode (works in 320k mode), does not work with external 512k enhancement by Zaxon (no wonder, since it is based on the internal tf_hh enhancement but cannot be switched to smaller ramsizes); simply stops loading after a while;

 

- The Tail of the Beta Lyrae version by Databyte (tape, not sure about the disk) does not seem to work with any ramsize bigger than 64k

 

- GACCRR by Activision (tape, not sure about the disk) works with 512k enhancement by mega-hz in 576k mode, does not work with internal 512k enhancement by tf_hh in 576k and 320k mode (only works in 64k mode, XRAM off), does not work with Sys-check by tf_hh in 576k mode, does not work with U1MB in 1088k and 576k mode (not sure about 320k mode, works in 64k mode / XRAM off), does not work with external 512k enhancement by Zaxon (no wonder, since it is based on the internal tf_hh enhancement but cannot be switched to smaller ramsizes)

 

- GACCRR by Silverbird (tape) works with 512k enhancement by mega-hz in 576k mode, does not work with internal 512k enhancement by tf_hh in 576k and 320k mode (only works in 64k mode, XRAM off), does not work with Sys-check by tf_hh in 576k mode, does not work with U1MB in 1088k and 576k mode (not sure about 320k mode, works in 64k mode / XRAM off), does not work with external 512k enhancement by Zaxon (no wonder, since it is based on the internal tf_hh enhancement but cannot be switched to smaller ramsizes)

 

- Asteroids by Atari (tape version from UK compilation tape A, cart not tested)  works with 512k enhancement by mega-hz in 576k mode, does not work with internal 512k enhancement by tf_hh in 576k and 320k mode (only works in 64k mode, XRAM off), does not work with Sys-check by tf_hh in 576k mode, does not work with U1MB in 1088k and 576k mode (not sure about 320k mode, works in 64k mode / XRAM off), does not work with external 512k enhancement by Zaxon (no wonder, since it is based on the internal tf_hh enhancement but cannot be switched to smaller ramsizes); funny effect here: the game can be loaded and seems to work at first sight, but Asteroids do not appear...

 

- Tapper by Sega/US-Gold (tape, not sure about the disk) works with 512k enhancement by mega-hz in 576k mode, does not work with internal 512k enhancement by tf_hh in 576k and 320k mode (only works in 64k mode, XRAM off), does not work with Sys-check by tf_hh in 576k mode, does not work with U1MB in 1088k and 576k mode (not sure about 320k mode, works in 64k mode / XRAM off), does not work with external 512k enhancement by Zaxon (no wonder, since it is based on the internal tf_hh enhancement but cannot be switched to smaller ramsizes)

 

- Up N'Down by Sega/US-Gold (tape, cart and disk not tested) works with 512k enhancement by mega-hz in 576k mode, does not work with internal 512k enhancement by tf_hh in 576k and 320k mode (only works in 64k mode, XRAM off), does not work with Sys-check by tf_hh in 576k mode, does not work with U1MB in 1088k and 576k mode (not sure about 320k mode, works in 64k mode / XRAM off), does not work with external 512k enhancement by Zaxon (no wonder, since it is based on the internal tf_hh enhancement but cannot be switched to smaller ramsizes)

 

All of these programs do not work with AVG PBI by tmp in 1088k mode and most of them do also not work in 320k mode (only X-Demo works); the games however do work fine in 64k mode. Maybe I should go through my collection and post a bigger list in a separate topic ?

 

But I do not own internal U1MB anymore and I also do not own Compyshop / Megaram anymore and did never own Newell, Rambo, Atari Magazin, Buchholz, TOMS and (US-based) Peterson ram enhancements. Atm I have two computers with 512k mega-hz enhancements, two computers with internal 512k tf_hh enhancements, a Sys-check II by tf_hh (external), a 512k ram enhancement by Zaxon (external) and a 1MB port-B and 4MB Axlon ram enhancement by tmp (AVG-PBI, external); I do own two older AVG-carts but do not have the PBI-cable to use its 512k XRAM...

 

[MrFSL]

1 hour ago, Mclaneinc said:

And as for beware of making assumptions, I actually have taken a superfast sports car to the local shops

And to continue to torture this metaphor... would you say that the experience was exactly the same? I say its not. You see the assumption lies in your belief of the cost to value. For you its not worth it to drive a sports car to the shop... and yet I see people do it all the time. They find it worth it. They didn't make a mistake in buying the sports car... its just not a "waste" to them as it would be to me. (or to you?) So if we assume the best thing for folks is for us to save them the most money possible while fulfilling only their base needs. Nothing wrong with that... but it does come with a bunch of assumptions.

 

When I was younger many people came to me about advice about computers and electronics. I sought after the lowest cost solutions that fit their needs and absolutely never recommended things I would not buy for myself; I would chase this "best price point" in the market. When I started refusing to offer this service people seemed rather happier spending their money on things I would not have recommended, as it turns out they didn't have the same assumptions as me (i.e. minimizing costs.) They loved (to continue the metaphor) driving to the shops in their sports car. They could afford it. I am sure I did not make a mistake. I was sure to account for people's needs.... as they understood or conveyed them... but I was tainted by my own value structure and cost limitations

 

None of the Atari devices available today are astronomically expensive.... none that I have found yet... and that isn't based on my budget; it is based on the equivalent in cost of other goods in the market.... especially the hobby market, computer market, antique market, custom electronics market, etc etc.

 

1 hour ago, Mclaneinc said:

even tmp was himself talking the person out of his products, again, like me, he's just trying to make a good choice for the person. 

Maybe.... but I am convinced that tmp is either coy or suffers from Imposter Syndrome. Either way tmp has never appeared to me to be very self promoting and while that can be refreshing, it took me awhile before I realized that tmp and AVG were quality. If I were tmp I would say

 

"...Buy my product, it does everything you would like and more and there really is nothing else in the market available like the AVG. It might be more than you need, but it isn't too expensive and I can't imagine you regretting the purchase. Plus it puts some money in my pocket to keep doing stuff like this and I would like, and am motivated, to continue my work. Plus if you have any problems, let me know cause I can personally help you." I argue this would be the better choice for the person. 

 

I used to suggest folks make their own SIO2USB cables when they were first starting out as it was the cheapest device I could imagine....  Now I recommend the easiest and most feature filled product I can... for now, that's AVG.

[Mclaneinc]

Forgive me if I don't go further with this as for me, it's turned into basic psychology, a subject I love, but it's not very Atari orientated

 

Let's not forget that personal budgets are proportionate to the individual and not in general, what you find affordable I may not, I can't afford those other things either, so it does matter...

 

I'm just saying, that in a world where a huge number of people are being saddled with debt and huge changes in cost of living, I choose to not overspend other people's money. The only time's I've said otherwise was to suggest the more expensive Ultimate 1mb was a good choice, but I did say at the same time that if you just want a mem upgrade that the PBI cable was more than enough.

 

Anyway, let's let tmp and the customers enjoy the demand while it's there..

 

 

[MrFSL]

6 hours ago, Mclaneinc said:

Forgive me if I don't go further with this as for me, it's turned into basic psychology, a subject I love, but it's not very Atari orientated

I disagree about psychology, I agree we are straying too far from this threads purpose.

 

6 hours ago, Mclaneinc said:

Let's not forget that personal budgets are proportionate to the individual and not in general, what you find affordable

Cost, Value, and Affordability are not the same things. Affordability trumps all; at least in the near term. Saving, however, can move one past that often. None of my comments are about what i find affordable. I believe that notion has come into your reasoning though.

6 hours ago, Mclaneinc said:

I'm just saying, that in a world where a huge number of people are being saddled with debt and huge changes in cost of living

I'm sure the world thanks you for doing your part? I guess I will have to try harder to be a more moral and aware person?

6 hours ago, Mclaneinc said:

I choose to not overspend other people's money

I didn't know you were spending anyone else's money. -- But "overspend" is the construct I was debating.

6 hours ago, Mclaneinc said:

Anyway, let's let tmp and the customers enjoy the demand while it's there..

Sure thing. Too much back and forth on what was meant to be a very small point. -- Helping a novice user pick the cheapest solution that will get their immediate job done might be fraught with assumptions and (what appears to be) a super-imposed value system. 

 

 

BUT MY WORD I really am loving this AVG! It's so useful I have a hard time seeing it so often replace other devices I had purchased for regular use. 

 

I love how everything fits in the back of my XE, except for the cart not being upright. I seem to remember 90 degree connectors that you could use... that got me thinking... what if the PBI connector had a cart slot on it and a pass-through PBI connector? It would be a PBI cable with vertical cart port allowing me to mount the AVG behind the computer on a XL and stand up the cart on the XE. --- It might cleanup and/or shorten some cable requirements too. The cart could still be used in a cart port as before.

  

[Mclaneinc]

4 minutes ago, MrFSL said:

BUT MY WORD I really am loving this AVG! It's so useful I have a hard time seeing it so often replace other devices I had purchased for regular use. 

It's a fantastic cart, I was always looking for a cart that resembles the 1541 Ultimate II+ I have for the C64, the AVG is damn close. I'd been looking at all the carts that were out for the Atari and just as I was about to choose this AVG was announced. So I waited and I'm glad I did, since then the updates and help from tmp have been excellent.

 

1 cart and I have so much extra functionality, keeps my poor desk free of clutter (who am I kidding, it's cluttered anyway) and just gives an all in one unit.... Top marks to tmp... Glad you are enjoying your cart MrFSL.

[Jeffrey Worley]

On 8/27/2022 at 10:21 AM, madness77 said:

..and if you prefer, you can still use the @flashjazzcat Loader

 

https://atari8.co.uk/firmware/avg/

On 9/2/2022 at 12:54 PM, DjayBee said:

A clear yes-and-no.

AVG has, like the 1010, only a SIO-cable with plug.

But if you own a SIO splitter then both should work fine together.

 

😉

I discovered FJC's side emulation early on in my career with AVG, but only recently discovered the automatic mode for that emulation.  Since, I've been using the AVG cart as a Side2 exclusively on my personal machine.  Over time, the emulation has gotten faster, so much so that there's no material difference between an AVG in Side2 mode and an actual Side2.  The only argument I have against AVG is how smart it is, it is a fast, powerful computer in its own right, compared to the Atari.  Candle's designs seem to try to avoid such, rather using CPLD's to perform glue functions that PALS or GALS could do in sufficient numbers.  Both are great, wonderful tools.

 

[Steril707]

11 hours ago, Mclaneinc said:

It's a fantastic cart, I was always looking for a cart that resembles the 1541 Ultimate II+ I have for the C64, the AVG is damn close. I'd been looking at all the carts that were out for the Atari and just as I was about to choose this AVG was announced. So I waited and I'm glad I did, since then the updates and help from tmp have been excellent.

 

1 cart and I have so much extra functionality, keeps my poor desk free of clutter (who am I kidding, it's cluttered anyway) and just gives an all in one unit.... Top marks to tmp... Glad you are enjoying your cart MrFSL.

I like these "swiss pocket knife" solutions for my retro computers, and the AVG Cart seems to be just like that. (other example would be the ACA500+ for the Amiga for me).

 

Looking forward to get mine soon.

[tmp]

On 9/8/2022 at 6:49 PM, MrFSL said:

what if the PBI connector had a cart slot on it and a pass-through PBI connector? It would be a PBI cable with vertical cart port allowing me to mount the AVG behind the computer on a XL and stand up the cart on the XE. --- It might cleanup and/or shorten some cable requirements too. The cart could still be used in a cart port as before.

PBI port misses some cart port signals (s4, s5, rd4, rd5, cctl), technically avgcart could live without those but not with standard "cart" firmware

[tmp]

https://us02web.zoom.us/j/83607078469?pwd=UEpObWsyWUFaUVJpRDd5czJ1TXNVZz09

[MrFSL]

Pardon my ignorance... us backwards folks here in the United States --- but that is September 10th, 2022 right? ... It must be as October would be a Sunday?

[Luke210]

It's today.

 

[tmp]

yes, in 4 hours and 20 minutes