Gyruss for Intellivision?

[arcade124]

All the talk of crashes and community support for stuff like this is way overblown. I don't like secret game releases or code theft either but it's hardly indicative of the scene as a whole or the greater community in general. Underhanded stuff has been going on from the beginning and will go on in the future. It doesn't have to have any impact on any individual here or their own collection. I certainly understand how that kind of stuff could drive some people away from the hobby, and that is never good, but the truth is people come and go from collecting and the community all the time for any number of reasons. There's a natural ebb and flow and it will continue.

 

Releasing games in private to avoid copyright issues will only affect completionists and only in the short term. Eventually the games wind up out in the open and available, see: BC's Quest For Tires. So unless you have to have everything, this really isn't a big deal and certainly is not the norm for homebrew producers. You don't see publishers like Rev or Electronite going out of their way to actually limit their number of potential customers. It's happened a few times due to concerns over a game getting too much attention from old IP holders but we're talking less than a handful of homebrews out of some 70 titles so far. That's hardly an epidemic and certainly not the way the market is trending.

 

The community is NOT supporting code theft. I think one can read this thread and see the very negative response Gyruss has had. Yes some of the games are selling on eBay right now, so what? That won't stop Deep Zone from coming out from Intellivision Revolution and the continued support for artrag has been strong. That's the real community in action. If a handful of people want to blow $160 on a release with dubious at best origins, let them! The majority of us will vote no with our wallets and continue to enjoy our own collections. It's likely many of the buyers are not even members here anyway. For those that are, it's their choice but it has no effect on my collection or the games I enjoy playing. For every one of them there will be 3 of us that buy Deep Zone instead.

The fact is, this shit goes on enough to tire people out and potentially make them want to leave the community. If you look around, prices are dropping. Tutankham and Super Cobra are now $150-$200 instead of $300, and I got a loose Turbo a few months back for $21. That's not from someone on here or any other forum, group or community. That's off eBay. It'll be slow, not going to just suddenly drop, but a crash is coming at some point.

[Intymike]

"If you look around, prices are dropping. Tutankham and Super Cobra are now $150-$200 instead of $300, and I got a loose Turbo a few months back for $21. That's not from someone on here or any other forum, group or community. That's off eBay. It'll be slow, not going to just suddenly drop, but a crash is coming at some point."

 

 

Thats not a price drop or a crash, it's going back to normal.

[m-crew]

"If you look around, prices are dropping. Tutankham and Super Cobra are now $150-$200 instead of $300, and I got a loose Turbo a few months back for $21. That's not from someone on here or any other forum, group or community. That's off eBay. It'll be slow, not going to just suddenly drop, but a crash is coming at some point."

 

 

Thats not a price drop or a crash, it's going back to normal.

That not going back to normal that's the price affecting supply and demand.. Just like wormwhomper for years a CIB was selling for over 100 us . Take a look what it has been selling for in the last months ... That's what's been happing to a lot of semi rare games.. Demand has dropped so price has dropped.. That's how a market works..

[m-crew]

TL;DR: you see no problem with any of this stuff, buyer beware.

That's why things like this have been happening a lot of people think this way and cant see what really has gone on or is going on..

 

This comment is not directed at the1hatman ,

[m-crew]

The fact is, this shit goes on enough to tire people out and potentially make them want to leave the community. It'll be slow, not going to just suddenly drop, but a crash is coming at some point.

Too may hands in to few pockets, Supply and Demand... Slowly it will be a producer market(or people with deep pockets) just trading off products and $$$$$ ... Like I have mentioned before..

 

Take a close look... who buys and who sells how many of that list is not involved in any part of the homebrew / farkle product not many as I can see.. but hey that's just my observation..

 

Not pointing at anyone or any producer just my general observation.. The Intv community on AA looks more like an ebay or amazon sales sight now more then an intv enthusiast and discussion forum .. Hey more Choice is great plus this keeps the intellivion alive but it is what it is....

[+the1hatman]

TL;DR: you see no problem with any of this stuff, buyer beware.

 

If you read my entire post and that's what you took away from it then you need serious work with your reading comprehension skills. Here let me help....

 

"I think one can read this thread and see the very negative response Gyruss has had."

 

"That won't stop Deep Zone from coming out from Intellivision Revolution and the continued support for artrag has been strong."

 

"The majority of us will vote no (on Gyruss) with our wallets and continue to enjoy our own collections."

 

"For every one of them there will be 3 of us that buy Deep Zone instead."

 

That's a much better Cliff Notes version for those that care to read the truth.

[+the1hatman]

The fact is, this shit goes on enough to tire people out and potentially make them want to leave the community. If you look around, prices are dropping. Tutankham and Super Cobra are now $150-$200 instead of $300, and I got a loose Turbo a few months back for $21. That's not from someone on here or any other forum, group or community. That's off eBay. It'll be slow, not going to just suddenly drop, but a crash is coming at some point.

 

I already acknowledged that stuff like that can make people want to leave the community. Like word for freakin' word. I also stated that while this is not good, it also happens all the time. That is the nature of any collecting group. People come and go and the collecting continues on. The retro collecting world isn't coming to an end though and going full Chicken Little about it is completely off base.

 

As for prices dropping, so what? When I got back into Intellivision gaming 12 years ago nothing was really expensive outside of the Big 4. Then prices started going up. Now they are coming back down. This cycle will happen again as interest in Intellivision ebbs and flows. Expect to see it spike again once the Amico comes out and possibly bottom out yet again if that venture crashes. None of that has any bearing on whether people are collecting or not, just that the market value fluctuates. If anything, one should embrace the current bear market for INTV items as a chance to build their collection for less. Unless you are a speculator or someone who only values their collection for it's monetary worth, why would it matter?

[+DZ-Jay]

If you read my entire post and that's what you took away from it then you need serious work with your reading comprehension skills.

 

Thanks for the ad hominem attack, classy. What I got from your message was waffling so hard, that IHOP is planning to add your post to their menu.

 

 

"I think one can read this thread and see the very negative response Gyruss has had."

 

"That won't stop Deep Zone from coming out from Intellivision Revolution and the continued support for artrag has been strong."

 

"The majority of us will vote no (on Gyruss) with our wallets and continue to enjoy our own collections."

 

"For every one of them there will be 3 of us that buy Deep Zone instead."

 

That's a much better Cliff Notes version for those that care to read the truth.

 

You forgot these gems as well:

• All the talk of crashes and community support for stuff like this is way overblown. I don't like secret game releases or code theft either but it's hardly indicative of the scene as a whole or the greater community in general.

   

  TRANSLATION: There isn't really a problem.

• Releasing games in private to avoid copyright issues will only affect completionists and only in the short term. ... So unless you have to have everything, this really isn't a big deal.

   

  TRANSLATION: And even if there was a problem, it's only to a small sub-set and it'll fizzle out by itself.

• The community is NOT supporting code theft. I think one can read this thread and see the very negative response Gyruss has had. Yes some of the games are selling on eBay right now, so what? That won't stop Deep Zone from coming out

   

  TRANSLATION: Let them do what they want since nobody will support it; but even if they support it, Deep Zone will still sell.

• etc.

 

All that, to me, ignores the main point we've made in the past: that accepting this behaviour as "normal" corrodes the community.

 

It also betrays a rather big gap in its reasoning: That "the community" is more than just Rev, Elektronite, artrag, or you and me -- this community is composed of speculators, hard-core and casual collectors, game publishers, retro-gamers, and home-brewers. It's varied and diffused across many categories, each with their own motivations. To say "I don't see a problem with any of this because it doesn't impact me directly nor my buddies," is to miss the forest for the trees: it normalizes behaviour that is corrosive to a community which already contains elements that benefit or are impacted from such behaviour.

 

-dZ.

[m-crew]

"it normalizes behaviour that is corrosive to a community which already contains elements that benefit or are impacted from such behaviour"

 

 

Bang On !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[wolfy62]

I imagine there will be an ebb and flow to the Gyruss thing as well.

 

10 or so may sell at full price than the price will drop after this knucklehead can't sell any more at his full asking price.

 

I bet if anyone who wants it is willing to wait,it will be available for $60 bucks in no time.

 

That is of course if you condone this kind of piracy activity in the first place.

[GenetixJ]

As a collector/completionist myself (in other collections), I have found that the closer I get to completion/all the way there, the less I enjoy the hobby. If I may share: I started skipping a few here and there of copies I dont think I will enjoy/have connection to, with the intention of acquiring them later through trade/ at lower prices. This allows me to still interact with other members and hunt for hidden bargains. I think if you try this route you may enjoy it.

 

I'm still on the fence but I am seriously considering that now is the time to bow out of being a completionist for homebrews.

 

It's been on my mind for over a year now and maybe Gyruss is the straw that breaks the camel's back.

 

Over the years, I've bought every homebrew I could get my hands on, including paying for a few games I knew I wouldn't enjoy whose only purpose was to go into a protective sleeve on my shelf.

 

This isn't a money thing or that too many games are being published (i.e. not going to go Eric7100 on you guys). I think I'm going to switch to cherry picking what games to buy.

[GenetixJ]

One day.

Please dont, it may cause the bottom to fall out of the Intellivision market...

[GenetixJ]

What is it with Italy and crazy shipping costs to the US??

[+the1hatman]

 

Thanks for the ad hominem attack, classy. What I got from your message was waffling so hard, that IHOP is planning to add your post to their menu.

 

Spare us the classy talk, Captain Eyeroll. You condensed an entire post with multiple points condemning the Gyruss fiasco and came up with "Nah it's ok" from it instead. That's not ad hominem, that's straight up the definition of lacking reading comprehension. Adding an actual ad hominem attack on the end with the BS waffling comment just cuts your credibility even further into hypocrite territory.

 

Concerning your inaccurate "translations", they might have made sense had you not missed the point completely. None of that was to say that Gyruss was no big deal in and of itself but that it was not indicative of a potential crash or that such things were deemed ok by the community in general. You literally missed the actual subject of the entire post and you still think "reading comprehension" was some kind of attack? If you cannot pay attention to what is being stated then I suggest you ask for clarification.

 

 

All that, to me, ignores the main point we've made in the past: that accepting this behaviour as "normal" corrodes the community.

 

It would except that the entire point of what I was saying is that this is NOT normal behavior at all for our community. It's not accepting of anything when one is pointing out that a few isolated incidents do not represent the homebrew or collecting segments of the scene at all. You guys take 1 example of stolen code making it to the CIB release stage and 2 instances of secret homebrew releases (1 of which eventually saw a wide release anyway) and incorrectly inflate them to be common occurrences. Your math, much like your understanding of the written word, is sorely lacking.

 

 

It also betrays a rather big gap in its reasoning: That "the community" is more than just Rev, Elektronite, artrag, or you and me -- this community is composed of speculators, hard-core and casual collectors, game publishers, retro-gamers, and home-brewers. It's varied and diffused across many categories, each with their own motivations.

 

At no point did I infer that the community was limited to the examples I used to illustrate the point you completely missed. This is you taking your own misconception of what was said and blowing it out of proportion. A common theme you seem to have in this thread.

 

 

To say "I don't see a problem with any of this because it doesn't impact me directly nor my buddies," is to miss the forest for the trees:

 

No one here said anything of the sort and literally nothing in that made up quote is in any way accurate. I have stated multiple times in both the thread and the post you horribly misunderstood that what has happened with Gyruss is a problem and unacceptable and that I will be buying the original game artrag programmed when it comes out.

 

 

it normalizes behaviour that is corrosive to a community which already contains elements that benefit or are impacted from such behaviour.

 

What is amazing to me is that you think someone specifically and continuously stating that this is NOT normal behavior for our community is somehow "normalizing the behavior". You double down on this logical fallacy by inflating these isolated incidents to alarming levels which means you are actually the one who thinks this happens enough to even be considered normal to begin with.

Edited November 20, 2018 by the1hatman

[arcade124]

Spare us the classy talk, Captain Eyeroll.

Real mature. I wasn't aware you were a seventh-grader.

 

We all agree that a crash is coming, in some form or another at least. All except for you. Face it, our facts add up better than yours. Saying it's abnormal is normalizing the behavior because, as more people hear that they'll think "I can do it, won't hurt the community because it's not a good representation". Then they pull a Gyruss (something we should start using as terminology for matters of this nature). It builds up, and the crash comes even sooner and harder than we're predicting.

 

I'd say more, but everyone else has already said just about everything that can be.

[+the1hatman]

Real mature. I wasn't aware you were a seventh-grader.

 

He said, using a 5th grade response. But you should know DZ earned that nickname by continuously talking down people, a few he targeted over and over again, with the eyeroll emoji repeated throughout his posts. He stopped using that little diddy after being called out on it though, which I found hilarious.

 

 

We all agree that a crash is coming, in some form or another at least. All except for you.

 

Wow. We all huh? So you and 2 other guys represent everyone here and I'm the sole outlier. That's quite a lot of hubris based on a few posts.

 

 

Face it, our facts add up better than yours

 

Your opinion doesn't equal fact. But if you'd like to actually post some facts here I'd be happy to dissect them for you.

 

 

Saying it's abnormal is normalizing the behavior because, as more people hear that they'll think "I can do it, won't hurt the community because it's not a good representation".

 

So you wish to double down on the assertion that my specifically stating this poor behavior is not normal is somehow normalizing said poor behavior? Do yourself a favor and Google "circular reasoning" then get back to us.

 

 

Then they pull a Gyruss (something we should start using as terminology for matters of this nature). It builds up, and the crash comes even sooner and harder than we're predicting.

 

No one is saying that this Gyruss incident isn't a bad thing, despite some poor efforts in reading here, but that a single occurrence is not reason enough to scream "The sky is falling! There is no escaping a mega-crash now!"

 

But since you fancy yourself an expert and your "facts are better than mine", tell us when you predict this crash to occur and just how hard are you expecting it to hit. I mean really nail down your position for everyone unless it's just all hyperbole and no substance.

[m-crew]

There's something happening here

What it is ain't exactly clear

There's a man with a gun over there

Telling me I got to beware

 

I think it's time we stop, children, what's that sound

Everybody look what's going down

 

There's battle lines being drawn

Nobody's right if everybody's wrong

Young people speaking their minds

Getting so much resistance from behind

 

It's time we stop, hey, what's that sound

Everybody look what's going down

[m-crew]

People can Believe what they want to believe.. But things have been happening before and are still happening and has escalated as in Gyruss... Time will tell and will reveal as is happing right now... People could only be fooled and tagged along like sheep for only so long....

 

Their has been awaken and if people think its only a few.. smell the coffee and just see who frequents this forum.. The enthusiast are dwindling in numbers and the producers are multiplying.. Just look around and see the posts ,the sales ... who plays in the intv HSC .. hmmm very little when we did .. That last time it really mattered was over 4 or 5 years...

 

Their has been and is shady things going on here ...

 

to many producers in to few pockets... bottom line

 

Supply and Demand dictates price and if a so called crash happens ...

and prices for most original intellivision games have dropped because demand has dropped and supply is up... more people selling off.. hmm I wonder why... people are getting fed up.

Edited November 20, 2018 by m-crew

[m-crew]

"Wow. We all huh? So you and 2 other guys represent everyone here and I'm the sole outlier. That's quite a lot of hubris based on a few posts."

 

 

 

 

 

 

Because two guys/ 3 guys are speaking up doesn't mean that its only them .. It means they are willing to speak and bring up what has happened in the past and has been escalating to the Gyruss shit show...

 

I cant count the PMs I have from members kudos me for bring this up every time I do..

 

So no one should assume anything either way...

Edited November 20, 2018 by m-crew

[+DZ-Jay]

What is amazing to me is that you think someone specifically and continuously stating that this is NOT normal behavior for our community is somehow "normalizing the behavior". You double down on this logical fallacy by inflating these isolated incidents to alarming levels which means you are actually the one who thinks this happens enough to even be considered normal to begin with.

 

I'm pointing out the apologetic waffling that tempers your "continuously stating that this is NOT normal behaviour" comments. Almost every one of your paragraphs is a "it's bad, but ... not too bad"; "there is no problem; but if there was it's not a big deal"; "nobody is supporting this; but some may" ...

 

All your comments decrying the behaviour are always followed by some sort of "but ..."

 

Look, the problem I have with comments like yours is that they appear on Every. Single. Thread. where corrosive behaviour is pointed out as a means of toning down or excusing the act. Not just from you.

• Secret releases to a special cadre of a few -- "It's only what? 2 games? Oh, but that was probably due to some licensing thing"
• Prices keep getting too high and exploit the speculators and completists in the community -- "Nah, it's normal supply and demand; the market will correct itself"
• New home-brews are released with copyright notices on the boxes from Activision, Atari, and Mattel; it erodes the meaning of copyright and suggests an invitation to piracy -- "But, but, it makes it look more authentic!"
• People are now selling empty boxes of games that never existed in order to tap into that OCD collector mentality -- "We're only providing what people want. Besides, it's not like we're making money ... well only a little."
• Someone stole someone else's code and publishes it as their own and gets ostracized -- "Well, he already apologized, and it was only this once ..."
• Someone now selling that stolen game -- "It's only a single occasion, nobody will support it, and it won't stop the originally from selling well ..."
• etc., etc., etc.

 

It serves to splinter the community more and more and erodes trust and fosters acrimony among a few. It's not healthy.

 

-dZ.

 

P.S. Never heard the "captain eyeroll" epithet before. Sounds neat.

Edited November 20, 2018 by DZ-Jay

[+intellivotion]

(...) We all agree that a crash is coming, in some form or another at least. All except for you. Face it, our facts add up better than yours. (...)

I'd say more, but everyone else has already said just about everything that can be.

where are the clear signs of an upcoming crash?

I didn't see any of them at a big retro gaming convention where I've been recently

Do you mean the "Gyruss incident"? Or the "Hover Bovver incident"? Or maybe is it the "secret and unnamable game incident"?

 

If you made it to PRGE this year, you surely saw how many people attended the OCC and noticed all those nerds around the Intellivision booths going back and forth all the time, eating donuts, playing games, farting and burping: well, those people were more than 30 AA members, whose some coming from overseas for the event, who first met in this forum and then in person in Portland to have fun together and to chat about retro games for three days (!!!). The community is healthy

[scalpel]

where are the clear signs of an upcoming crash?

I didn't see any of them at a big retro gaming convention where I've been recently

Do you mean the "Gyruss incident"? Or the "Hover Bovver incident"? Or maybe is it the "secret and unnamable game incident"?

 

If you made it to PRGE this year, you surely saw how many people attended the OCC and noticed all those nerds around the Intellivision booths going back and forth all the time, eating donuts, playing games, farting and burping: well, those people were more than 30 AA members, whose some coming from overseas for the event, who first met in this forum and then in person in Portland to have fun together and to chat about retro games for three days (!!!). The community is healthy

 

I agree, there is no crash around. We had, have and will have fun with our Intellivision. Sad I was not to PRGE, maybe next year ??

[Intymike]

 

Sad I was not to PRGE, maybe next year ??

 

 

That would be awesome!

[Tidus79001]

My understanding is that this is a homebrew game. That being said, assuming that the game is in PAL format as opposed to NTSC will a homebew game from the EU be region locked, not compatible with US consoles, or unplayable due to the PAL format?

[+Gemintronic]

My understanding is that this is a homebrew game. That being said, assuming that the game is in PAL format as opposed to NTSC will a homebew game from the EU be region locked, not compatible with US consoles, or unplayable due to the PAL format?

 

I'd read the topic over more before focusing on the technical aspects. Decide for yourself if the way it came into being is something you want to support.