WaterWorld color variation...

[Christophero Sly]

At the top of the label is a rainbow. If the label were deliberately made orange, the red in the rainbow would still be red, but it looks orange to me.

 

Not if the red pigment had been universally replaced by the orange one on the label (or vice-versa )

 

I think everyone can recognize a simple case of faded red on an Atari silver label, including GruBBworM. Obviously, the orange cart didn't fit the 'faded-red' criteria, or else, as I see it, GruBBworM wouldn't have posted about the discrepancy in the first place.

 

GruBBworM's cart, the cart in the German auction , and the representative waterworld cart here on AA are all a consitent vivid orange color over the entire color block panel and none look faded.

 

Label variants are ubiquitous among Atari carts. Having two label variations of this cart is not inconsistent with Atari production standards. Given that Waterworld had two distributions, one through the club, the other a limited retail, it's plausable that the two variations reflect the two different distribution pathways. Perhaps when Waterworld carts were being prepared for retail distribution, new labels were printed and these labels were printed with slightly different colors.

[GruBBworM]

I agree totally with sly on this matter im telling you guys that this is not fading.

The colors are too crisp on these carts. good point though it is possible that the club and retial carts could well be the difference.

[smile_walle]

In my feeling that red label is cosidering started from Atari Club, and fading orange color is cosidering retail stores?

 

Is that correct what Im saying above?

 

 

Jason

[slapdash]

I'd say it just got printed with a crappy red ink that looks orange... Bad print run is all.

[Christophero Sly]

In my feeling that red label is cosidering started from Atari Club,  and fading orange color is cosidering retail stores?

 

Is that correct what Im saying above?

 

 

Jason

 

I would speculate that it is just the opposite. Also, I wouldn't characterize the orange color as 'faded' or 'crappy'.

 

Although I can present no evidence for the following, the red label may reflect a color standardization of the specialized orange label cart that was produced for distribution through the Atari club. The special orange pigment used on the limited-relase carts might not have been available at the high-volume print shops within the retail distribution pathway of Atari, so a standard red pigment was substituted instead. All mass-produced Atari Silver carts use red, so this idea isn't a stretch, but, again, it's just suppostition.

[Xot]

Speaking as a representative of the printing industry, I think the red in the rainbow is the telling point. Red is not a standard color ink - if a perfect shade of red is required, you're going to be using a fifth ink (the four standard colors are Cyan, Magenta, Yellow and Black). It's likely that Atari DID have a standard red for a uniform look across all carts, but there's no way that it would have been stripped on the rainbow. The artwork is a single piece of 4-color art, the text and boxes are seperate items.

 

Since the fading occurs on the rainbow, I think the red is a 4/C red applied uniformly, and yes, the red on the end label likely would have faded evenly as well.

[Christophero Sly]

Speaking as a representative of the printing industry, I think the red in the rainbow is the telling point. Red is not a standard color ink - if a perfect shade of red is required, you're going to be using a fifth ink (the four standard colors are Cyan, Magenta, Yellow and Black). It's likely that Atari DID have a standard red for a uniform look across all  carts, but there's no way that it would have been stripped on the rainbow. The artwork is a single piece of 4-color art, the text and boxes are seperate items.  

 

Since the fading occurs on the rainbow, I think the red is a 4/C red applied uniformly, and yes, the red on the end label likely would have faded evenly as well.

 

Xot,

 

I'm sorry, I didn't quite follow that. Are you saying you believe the orange to be a faded red or an intentional color? And how does the rainbow provide evidence of this?

[GruBBworM]

I still say they are two different colors two different production runs I really can see no fading just the same ill hold on to both of the carts because I believe this to be two dif label variations of WaterWorld

[GruBBworM]

I still say not faded

[GruBBworM]

I must be Justified on my 2 dif colors WaterWorld's the whole faded thing might effect the value of my 2 carts!!!!!! rotfl so you big time atari collectors admit it it could be 2 dif colors not fading!!!! :-)

[Xot]

Speaking as a representative of the printing industry, I think the red in the rainbow is the telling point. Red is not a standard color ink - if a perfect shade of red is required, you're going to be using a fifth ink (the four standard colors are Cyan, Magenta, Yellow and Black). It's likely that Atari DID have a standard red for a uniform look across all  carts, but there's no way that it would have been stripped on the rainbow. The artwork is a single piece of 4-color art, the text and boxes are seperate items.  

 

Since the fading occurs on the rainbow, I think the red is a 4/C red applied uniformly, and yes, the red on the end label likely would have faded evenly as well.

 

Xot,

 

I'm sorry, I didn't quite follow that. Are you saying you believe the orange to be a faded red or an intentional color? And how does the rainbow provide evidence of this?

 

That's okay. I'm saying it's a faded color.

 

The way images are set up, there are two methods of producing colors - "spot" colors, in which the ink itself is the color you want, or "process" colors, in which a combination of inks produce the color you want.

 

Spot colors are usually used when a uniform, precise color is needed over multiple print runs. Something like the blue in the IBM logo - you want that blue to be the SAME blue EVERYWHERE.

 

You (generally) can't use a process color in a photographic image; these are done as process color (most color printing uses this process). Four different images (called plates) are overlaid, each one printed in a different color ink (cyan, magenta, yellow, and black) to produce one four-color image. If you look at printed material under a magnifying glass you can see the four colored dots printed at 90 degree angles to each other to produce diamond shapes.

 

Why this is relevant: If you wanted to substitute the red in the Waterworld background with orange, you could do this as a spot color. This would not affect the red in the rainbow, since it would likely be printed as process color.

 

Since the red in the WW background is consistent with the red in the rainbow, I conclude they were both printed by the same process - process color. Since pure red is not a color you can swap out with process color (as I said before, the four colors are cyan, magenta, yellow and black), you couldn't intentionally turn reds into oranges using this print method - unless the original inks were faulty, the print run was poor, or, the reds have faded. And I do think the uniform fading of is possible since the entire cart is exposed to the most of the same conditions that can cause fading. A bad print run, in which the ink colors making up the red were diluted by water or something else is probably the best explanation.

 

Whew!

[Xot]

Something I neglected to mention - if there were two intentionally different colors, then what you would likely see on the orange cart is the rainbows on each cart being identical and the Waterworld box being different colors. But they aren't like that - the red area of the rainbow is clearly faded on the faded cart.

[GruBBworM]

BLAH!!!! lol

[Ehrbad]

Something I neglected to mention - if there were two intentionally different colors, then what you would likely see on the orange cart is the rainbows on each cart being identical and the Waterworld box being different colors.  But they aren't like that - the red area of the rainbow is clearly faded on the faded cart.

 

I just checked my two copies of Ms. Pac-Man, both silver labels. One cart has a 1982 copyright, the other a 1988 copyright. The '82 cart is clearly faded - all colors are a few shades paler compared to the 1988 cart. The 'reds' in the '82 cart are more of a orange-red, and the end text label is even more orange-ish than the 'reds' on the face of the cart. The rainbow on the faded '82 cart is weird - the rainbow progresses from orange/red/violet/blue/green/orange - no yellow whatsoever.

 

Do you think the colors on the '82 cart is most likely attributable to fading?

[Xot]

Something I neglected to mention - if there were two intentionally different colors, then what you would likely see on the orange cart is the rainbows on each cart being identical and the Waterworld box being different colors.  But they aren't like that - the red area of the rainbow is clearly faded on the faded cart.

 

I just checked my two copies of Ms. Pac-Man, both silver labels. One cart has a 1982 copyright, the other a 1988 copyright. The '82 cart is clearly faded - all colors are a few shades paler compared to the 1988 cart. The 'reds' in the '82 cart are more of a orange-red, and the end text label is even more orange-ish than the 'reds' on the face of the cart. The rainbow on the faded '82 cart is weird - the rainbow progresses from orange/red/violet/blue/green/orange - no yellow whatsoever.

 

Do you think the colors on the '82 cart is most likely attributable to fading?

 

I couldn't really say. There are too many factors to consider, really, but I'd guess if all the colors are dull compared to the other, then fading is probably your most likely culprit.

 

I guess the only way to be certain in these circumstances would be to pluck one fresh out of a sealed package. You could use that as a baseline. And if you wanted to be REALLY safe, you'd open a bunch from different parts of the country to acount for differences in print runs.

 

But you know what? I don't care THAT much about the condition of my labels.

[Christophero Sly]

That's okay. I'm saying it's a faded color.

 

The way images are set up, there are two methods of producing colors - "spot" colors, in which the ink itself is the color you want, or "process" colors, in which a combination of inks produce the color you want.  

 

Spot colors are usually used when a uniform, precise color is needed over multiple print runs. Something like the blue in the IBM logo - you want that blue to be the SAME blue EVERYWHERE.  

 

You (generally) can't use a process color in a photographic image; these are done as process color (most color printing uses this process). Four different images (called plates) are overlaid, each one printed in a different color ink (cyan, magenta, yellow, and black) to produce one four-color image. If you look at printed material under a magnifying glass you can see the four colored dots printed at 90 degree angles to each other to produce diamond shapes.  

 

Why this is relevant: If you wanted to substitute the red in the Waterworld background with orange, you could do this as a spot color. This would not affect the red in the rainbow, since it would likely be printed as process color.  

 

Since the red in the WW background is consistent with the red in the rainbow, I conclude they were both printed by the same process - process color. Since pure red is not a color you can swap out with process color (as I said before, the four colors are cyan, magenta, yellow and black), you couldn't intentionally turn reds into oranges using this print method - unless the original inks were faulty, the print run was poor, or, the reds have faded. And I do think the uniform fading of is possible since the entire cart is exposed to the most of the same conditions that can cause fading. A bad print run, in which the ink colors making up the red were diluted by water or something else is probably the best explanation.

 

Whew!

 

Thank you for the clarification and, in principle, I would defer to your expertise in this matter.

 

However, in the time since the first round of this topic, I've been reviewing every picture of a Waterworld cart I can find and, based on what I've seen, I can only conclude that there are TWO color variations of the Waterworld label, one red, the other orange.

 

All the orange label carts I have seen are the same shade of vivid orange with no fading apparent in the illustration colors. If orange carts represent fading, then the original red of a Waterworld cart must constitently fade to a precise shade of VIVID orange and a more apt description of this process would be 'mutating' rather than 'fading'. While I accept that this is possible, parsimony would favor other explantations, IMHO.

[GruBBworM]

And again Thank you I agree I've been looking at carts too and there are 2 dif color labels 1 orange 1 red no fading

[smile_walle]

My Waterworld's cartridge show still red color, there is no sign of faded. my cartridge's label is very very minty!!

 

you can see my photo of Waterworld cartridge

 

 

hear soon

 

 

Jason

[sku_u]

The easiest way to put this to rest once and for all would be to take a few common silver label carts that use the same red present on the Waterworld label and leave them exposed to direct sunlight and other elements that contribute to fading and check daily to see what happens to the color. Keep a few red carts out of these elements so you have something for comparison.

[Christophero Sly]

The easiest way to put this to rest once and for all would be to take a few common silver label carts that use the same red present on the Waterworld label and leave them exposed to direct sunlight and other elements that contribute to fading and check daily to see what happens to the color.  Keep a few red carts out of these elements so you have something for comparison.

 

I already have at least two dozen Atari silver labels that have undergone various levels of fading and not one of them resembles the orange label of the Waterwold cart in question.

[GruBBworM]

OK who do I need to mail these 2 WaterWorld's to so they can make the determination who is the most qualified and trustworthy???

[Xot]

 

All the orange label carts I have seen are the same shade of vivid orange with no fading apparent in the illustration colors.  If orange carts represent fading, then the original red of a Waterworld cart must constitently fade to a precise shade of VIVID orange and a more apt description of this process would be 'mutating' rather than 'fading'.  While I accept that this is possible, parsimony would favor other explantations, IMHO.

 

Sounds fair to me. I wonder if there *were* two runs of Waterworld carts; likely, since there was the club-only release and the general release. It's my guess that one of these runs had a dubiously bad print run. It *is* possible that the magenta ink was particularly susecptible to fading, and that a uniform amount of magenta ink wore off - some of it would have mixed with the yellow and that's why you end up with a vivid orange. The difference, ink wise, between a bright red and a vivid orange is about 25% magenta.

[Christophero Sly]

It *is* possible that the magenta ink was particularly susecptible to fading, and that a uniform amount of magenta ink wore off - some of it would have mixed with the yellow and that's why you end up with a vivid orange. The difference, ink wise, between a bright red and a vivid orange is about 25% magenta.

 

Hmmm...very interesting. Now I don't know what to think. I'm going to have to keep silent until I can evaluate the variants side-by-side in the real world.

[+-^CrossBow^-]

I will be able to tell when Grub brings them to my show in September. I can tell a faded a cart from a non faded cart and I will be able to tell.

 

[xulchris]

Hi, I have an orange label Waterworld, and I guarantee you it is not faded. If it were faded then there would be different levels of red to orange amonst faded carts, all the orange label carts are the same shade of orange, and there wouldn't be so many people so dumb as to leave their precious waterworld carts out in the sun. So hopefully, this will be enough evidence to convince everyone that there is an orange version and these carts are not faded. I can make a scan of mine if you want to compare my orange color with another one.