robsbucs Posted June 26, 2003 Share Posted June 26, 2003 i know..ill paint mine blue and green!!!!! bet you never see one like that!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xulchris Posted June 26, 2003 Share Posted June 26, 2003 Okay guys, Ive noticed something else that should put a close to this debate once and for all. Compare the two carts side by side in the first pics for this thread and take a look at the ATARI in the upper right hand corner. In particular, look at the space inside the A. On the orange cart the A has a large space in it, and in the red cart it is much smaller. In other words, there are two different fonts being used here! So therefore this MUST be concrete proof that there were two variations on the label. Any arguments?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robsbucs Posted June 26, 2003 Share Posted June 26, 2003 None here..case solved...good call xulchris!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pitfall Harry Posted June 26, 2003 Share Posted June 26, 2003 Okay guys, Ive noticed something else that should put a close to this debate once and for all. Compare the two carts side by side in the first pics for this thread and take a look at the ATARI in the upper right hand corner. In particular, look at the space inside the A. On the orange cart the A has a large space in it, and in the red cart it is much smaller. In other words, there are two different fonts being used here! So therefore this MUST be concrete proof that there were two variations on the label. Any arguments?? If you compare the two carts in the side-by-side pic posted later on page one of the thread, where tho positions of the orange and the red "label variations" are swapped, it is now the other cart that appears to have the empty spaces in the A's filled in more than the other. So your observation proves... ...nothing. Ben Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GruBBworM Posted June 26, 2003 Author Share Posted June 26, 2003 hmmm they both have the 44 3 R on em But The strikes of the stamps are in different places the orange one is struck above the swordquest and the red one is struck on the swordquest. I dunno I give up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pitfall Harry Posted June 26, 2003 Share Posted June 26, 2003 What's that brown haze above the Octopus' arm on the left side of the "orange" label? It's missing on the red label. Ben Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xulchris Posted June 26, 2003 Share Posted June 26, 2003 If you compare the two carts in the side-by-side pic posted later on page one of the thread, where tho positions of the orange and the red "label variations" are swapped, it is now the other cart that appears to have the empty spaces in the A's filled in more than the other. So your observation proves... ...nothing. Ben The second picture is too small to tell the difference in the fonts. I am comparing the font on my orange cart to the picture in the atari age database and I can't tell a difference. The font on my cart matches the font on GruBBworM's orange cart. GruBBworM, comparing your two carts side by side, do you notice any difference in the font for the ATARI in the upper right corner? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sku_u Posted June 26, 2003 Share Posted June 26, 2003 What's that brown haze above the Octopus' arm on the left side of the "orange" label? It's missing on the red label. Ben That's a ghost. The orange Waterworld must be haunted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Room 34 Posted June 26, 2003 Share Posted June 26, 2003 Okay guys, Ive noticed something else that should put a close to this debate once and for all. Compare the two carts side by side in the first pics for this thread and take a look at the ATARI in the upper right hand corner. In particular, look at the space inside the A. On the orange cart the A has a large space in it, and in the red cart it is much smaller. In other words, there are two different fonts being used here! So therefore this MUST be concrete proof that there were two variations on the label. Any arguments?? They are not different fonts. The letters on the left look thinner because the reflection on the silver label from the camera's flash partially drowns them out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GruBBworM Posted June 26, 2003 Author Share Posted June 26, 2003 looks orange to me lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GruBBworM Posted June 26, 2003 Author Share Posted June 26, 2003 Maybe I should Crack em both open and look inside them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CPUWIZ Posted June 26, 2003 Share Posted June 26, 2003 I dare you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GruBBworM Posted June 26, 2003 Author Share Posted June 26, 2003 LOL you would heck I dunno anymore yall are the EXPERTS here not me :-) All I did was ask one little simple question here about color variation. Im innocent! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pitfall Harry Posted June 26, 2003 Share Posted June 26, 2003 So... what IS that brown haze? Is it a stain, or is it part of the label design? It doesn't appear on my Waterworld label, either. Ben Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xulchris Posted June 26, 2003 Share Posted June 26, 2003 So... what IS that brown haze? Is it a stain, or is it part of the label design? It doesn't appear on my Waterworld label, either. Ben its a stain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GruBBworM Posted June 26, 2003 Author Share Posted June 26, 2003 no not a stain its the color that is there here are some more pics the font from what I can tell may be slightly different like the red font is thicker or something and the orange one is a little thinner on the lines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xulchris Posted June 26, 2003 Share Posted June 26, 2003 no not a stain its the color that is there here are some more pics the font from what I can tell may be slightly different like the red font is thicker or something and the orange one is a little thinner on the lines. Okay, its not a stain, its more of a smudge, someone with sweaty fingers once smeared the brown color from the octopus through the water (atleast that is my guess). Yes, could you please get a real close up pic of the ATARI font on each cart so we can see if there is a difference. I think the orange one does look thinner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GruBBworM Posted June 26, 2003 Author Share Posted June 26, 2003 Hard as heck with that silver background but ill try Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MegaManFan Posted June 26, 2003 Share Posted June 26, 2003 I think the key to this whole debate lies in the "color rainbow" above the top of the image - on the "orange" label it matches an "orange" in the rainbow, and on the "red" label it matches a "red" in the rainbow in the EXACT SAME SPOT. So is this a label variant? No. It's a printing variant. Obviously one batch of the carts got a heavier dose of ink in the print run, and when they saw how dark the labels were they probably adjusted the mix and continued unchecked. I don't think sunfading or aging play any role here, and the only surface wear is the "ink smudge" previously noted. Now does this mean one's more valuable than the other? Absolutely not. If they had stopped the press and actually changed the artwork from one label to the next (re-cropped it, added something in, taken something out, or re-designed it altogether) maybe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christophero Sly Posted June 26, 2003 Share Posted June 26, 2003 I think the key to this whole debate lies in the "color rainbow" above the top of the image - on the "orange" label it matches an "orange" in the rainbow, and on the "red" label it matches a "red" in the rainbow in the EXACT SAME SPOT. So is this a label variant? No. It's a printing variant. Obviously one batch of the carts got a heavier dose of ink in the print run, and when they saw how dark the labels were they probably adjusted the mix and continued unchecked. I don't think sunfading or aging play any role here, and the only surface wear is the "ink smudge" previously noted. Now does this mean one's more valuable than the other? Absolutely not. If they had stopped the press and actually changed the artwork from one label to the next (re-cropped it, added something in, taken something out, or re-designed it altogether) maybe. However, as I've stated before, if the two print variants reflect the two distributions of Waterworld (Atari Club and retail) and if it could be determined which is which, then that may effect values. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Room 34 Posted June 26, 2003 Share Posted June 26, 2003 I think you need to scan them both at high resolution so we can see the precise details, straight-on, without the glare of the camera flash. And even if the letters in ATARI are SLIGHTLY thicker on one than the other doesn't necessarily mean anything... there may have just been more ink used in one batch of the carts, which was my argument in the first place. Sometimes quality control on print jobs is a bit lax, and a batch gets printed with a low level of one color... I still think this is what happened here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MegaManFan Posted June 26, 2003 Share Posted June 26, 2003 Sometimes quality control on print jobs is a bit lax, and a batch gets printed with a low level of one color... I still think this is what happened here. Pi-zactly. And as far as the "Atari Club" argument goes, I think that would only be meaningful if the carts actually SAID Atari Club on the label; to differentiate the way they were distributed from the rest of the batch. Otherwise who cares how it was acquired? Same cart, same label, same (mostly crappy) game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christophero Sly Posted June 26, 2003 Share Posted June 26, 2003 Pi-zactly. And as far as the "Atari Club" argument goes, I think that would only be meaningful if the carts actually SAID Atari Club on the label; to differentiate the way they were distributed from the rest of the batch. Otherwise who cares how it was acquired? Same cart, same label, same (mostly crappy) game. Personally, I don't think it matters if the label is Orange or Red either, but others, at the begining of this thread, have suggested that it does. The whole point of debating the issue to this point has been to challenge that judgement and recognize the existence of the Orange label variant. Hopefully, everyone can arrive, more or less, at a conclusion similar to yours MMF..."Same cart, same label, same (mostly crappy) game". However, if it can be determined that one or the other color variant is the Atari club release, then that is as good as a label or a sticker proclaming such, IMHO. I have no idea how knowing which variant was the Atari Club release would effect its value and I really don't care, but it would be an interesting and important piece of Atari history to know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MegaManFan Posted June 26, 2003 Share Posted June 26, 2003 However, if it can be determined that one or the other color variant is the Atari club release, then that is as good as a label or a sticker proclaming such, IMHO. I have no idea how knowing which variant was the Atari Club release would effect its value and I really don't care, but it would be an interesting and important piece of Atari history to know. Fair enough. I'm just not sure this could actually be proved unless somebody on these boards was at the plant the day the printing engineer said, "Okay this next batch is for the Atari Club members." My natural skepticism leads me to believe Atari didn't even care enough about their Club Members to warrant such special attention to printing and manufacturing at the first place. I'm more inclined to believe someone at Atari in charge of product dispersement came to the cart guys and said, "We have to make x thousand units. Call the manufacturer in Taiwan and make sure they have a shipment on the next boat." The words "Atari Club" probably didn't even cross his mind - they were just another batch to print, ship, and check off on the corporate list of accounts received and paid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sku_u Posted June 26, 2003 Share Posted June 26, 2003 The Atari Club theory makes no sense at all. If they had planned on making different color labels for the Atari Club and standard releases, why choose Red and Orange (two very similar colors). If they were going to be different, it would have made much more sense to use completely different colors or different labels entirely. When red fades, it usually fades to orange. If anything, this was just a bad print run and even that is unlikely. Has anyone noticed the water damage evidence present on the Orange label on the left bottom? Maybe this is the culprit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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