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Lynx 2020 Programming Competition


Igor

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2 hours ago, No One You Know said:

Right? I just got the impression it was designed to use a special loader cart or something. I evidently didn't look into it deep enough.

Our Card did use always 1024 byte blocks and bank-switching with AUDIN for 512K card or only 128 blocks for 128K cards.
Since the level of AUDIN was not the same for Lynx I, Lynx II Mono and Lynx II Stereo, the boot loader had to be in both banks.

 

I am not sure if any of the flash cards supper 1M games with AUDIN bank switching.

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3 hours ago, 42bs said:

Our Card did use always 1024 byte blocks and bank-switching with AUDIN for 512K card or only 128 blocks for 128K cards.
Since the level of AUDIN was not the same for Lynx I, Lynx II Mono and Lynx II Stereo, the boot loader had to be in both banks.

 

I am not sure if any of the flash cards supper 1M games with AUDIN bank switching.

yes, they do. at least the one i own

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4 hours ago, 42bs said:

Our Card did use always 1024 byte blocks and bank-switching with AUDIN for 512K card or only 128 blocks for 128K cards.
Since the level of AUDIN was not the same for Lynx I, Lynx II Mono and Lynx II Stereo, the boot loader had to be in both banks.

 

I am not sure if any of the flash cards supper 1M games with AUDIN bank switching.

Ok? I'm not qualified to understand what you are talking about at the moment. I guess you are saying you use an audio passthrough pins or something to signal bank switching on the card? The "tech ref manual" of sorts that is on the internet is apparently originally an epyx manual but updated by you. I'm not sure what is written by the epyx guy and what is by you because it is so informal. How much do you recommend this manual?

 

edit: I think the reason that I thought what I did was because I read the thing that says it uses a purpose designed loader cart that only holds 56KB and that it it uses an exploit in gauntlet rather than creating full independent roms.

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5 minutes ago, sage said:

AUDIN (or AUDIO) = AUxialary Data Input/Output :laugh:

You had me for a second. Sorry if my stupid questions are annoying you.

 

edit: oh the pinout diagram actually says it is just for I/O? Why is it different for mono and stereo lynxes then?

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1 hour ago, No One You Know said:

I'm not sure what is written by the epyx guy and what is by you because it is so informal. How much do you recommend this manual?

Only the part about EEPROM is by me, the rest is all original EPYX/Atari.

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4 hours ago, 42bs said:

Only the part about EEPROM is by me, the rest is all original EPYX/Atari.

Ah. Thanks. That clears it up. Surprises me that the official documentation is written in such an informal way. Very different from the jag tech ref.

 

Also, if it is meant to have been designed mainly by David needle/RJ mical, why does this Craig Nelson epyx guy talk so much as if he designed everything?

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4 hours ago, No One You Know said:

Also, if it is meant to have been designed mainly by David needle/RJ mical, why does this Craig Nelson epyx guy talk so much as if he designed everything?

Not sure what you mean, but Craig Nelson is only mentioned twice in the whole docu. Same a "Howard". Both seemed to responsible for the docu and/or development system design.

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4 hours ago, No One You Know said:

Ah. Thanks. That clears it up. Surprises me that the official documentation is written in such an informal way. Very different from the jag tech ref.

? It was written by hackers for hackers. Atari wanted to sound more serious than they really were. But as for Jaguar, the docu mentions that "sharq" is the best opcode ever.

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3 hours ago, 42bs said:

? It was written by hackers for hackers. Atari wanted to sound more serious than they really were. But as for Jaguar, the docu mentions that "sharq" is the best opcode ever.

Also read the cost considerations for the audio hw. Hilarious!

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14 hours ago, 42bs said:

Not sure what you mean, but Craig Nelson is only mentioned twice in the whole docu. Same a "Howard". Both seemed to responsible for the docu and/or development system design.

Well it mentions Craig Nelson  in small print at the bottom of at least one page but the guy also refers to himself as craig once (at the end of the audio section i think, which is also where his full name is listed). When you look him up you find he is some epyx guy that was there before the lynx too. I thought the only mention of the name "Howard" was for the Howard development units?

14 hours ago, 42bs said:

? It was written by hackers for hackers. Atari wanted to sound more serious than they really were. But as for Jaguar, the docu mentions that "sharq" is the best opcode ever.

"Hacker for hackers"? I thought it was official epyx documentation other than your bit? I've only properly looked at the V8 jag manual which is the easiest to find on the web. I haven't read all of it though just certain bits over the years. I don't know what sharq does or is for so I don't get your joke.

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9 hours ago, No One You Know said:

I thought the only mention of the name "Howard" was for the Howard development units?

"Hacker for hackers"? I thought it was official epyx documentation other than your bit? I've only properly looked at the V8 jag manual which is the easiest to find on the web. I haven't read all of it though just certain bits over the years. I don't know what sharq does or is for so I don't get your joke.

The developers where hackers (IMHO) and the ones writing for the Lynx 1989 where hackers two. Ever looked at a Howard board?

As for "sharq", RTFM ?

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I don't think there was too many rules, completely my own fault for not reading properly! ? Ports can probably spur the interest in a competition (from non developer perspective), but on the other hand it's a bit annoying to compete with original material against super popular brands, and those can't be sold on physical carts either. Or perhaps you just meant cloning game mechanics? (That's probably happening with almost anything one could come up with anyway).?

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7 hours ago, Igor said:

@Turbo Laser Lynx haha yeah maybe I wrote too many rules...so that'll have to be addressed too. I'm thinking for the next one that I'll allow ports under the condition that we don't get 10x Tetris clones, etc ?

indeed. anyway here is a really good tetris clone already-

 and I have two other unfnished ports for comlynx games half-ready.

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The magic (or the shame?) of game devlopment is that concepts and mechanics are not "copyrightable". That's why we can make clones of famous games, but that's also why the industry is lacking so much imagination nowaday.

So as long as the presentation (art, music, etc) is different enough, it is ok to "port" games by cloning their mechanuics. And I think that's what Igor meant.

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10 minutes ago, LordKraken said:

The magic (or the shame?) of game devlopment is that concepts and mechanics are not "copyrightable". That's why we can make clones of famous games, but that's also why the industry is lacking so much imagination nowaday.

So as long as the presentation (art, music, etc) is different enough, it is ok to "port" games by cloning their mechanuics. And I think that's what Igor meant.

Coming up with a complete new game design is not that easy I think. And "ports" are as old as the game industry (see Great Giana Sisters) ?

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2 hours ago, LordKraken said:

The magic (or the shame?) of game devlopment is that concepts and mechanics are not "copyrightable". That's why we can make clones of famous games, but that's also why the industry is lacking so much imagination nowaday.

So as long as the presentation (art, music, etc) is different enough, it is ok to "port" games by cloning their mechanuics. And I think that's what Igor meant.


Yeah, it's easy to see it happen in almost all fields. Music, movies, design etc. I think it sometimes becomes harder to keep up the enthusiasm with age, when you've seen everything "ten times over" and there's such an unbeliavable flood wave of *everything*. However, I'm really happy that I still get excited about new and old games for "retro" systems. I kinda like klichéd and corny stuff, so maybe it's not so bad for me, :D but I admit that it's amazing when someone comes up with ideas that feel new and that work.

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16 hours ago, LordKraken said:

well Great Giana Sisters is a bad example because it was basically Mario (levels & design & enemeis were a straight port) with just modified assets.

If they have had very different levels and revamped the enemy they would have never been sued by nintendo.

That's what he meant. He referred to it as a port.

On 8/30/2020 at 7:06 AM, 42bs said:

The developers where hackers (IMHO) and the ones writing for the Lynx 1989 where hackers two. Ever looked at a Howard board?

As for "sharq", RTFM ?

Its not imperative to either of our lives for me to read the manual so you don't have to swear. You mean the fact that it actually describes something as the "best instruction ever" is informal? Ok so by "hacker" you are just referring to any developer? I have never looked at a howard board but I don't think they are person-shaped and regardless of any of that I don't get what it has to do with what Craig Nelson had to do with hardware design?

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The word rtfm is meant to be part of this so-called humour that was very common in the old days. Even dead serious companies like IBM had sayings like "you can wear any colour suit, as long as it's black". Even the installation manual contained hacker jokes like "don't force it, use a bigger hammer". Everything is not to be understood literally. Hackers of the time found these small sayings funny.

 

Today you may still have a chance to meet some of the hacker legends that occasionally lurk in these developer forums.

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On 9/1/2020 at 5:30 AM, karri said:

The word rtfm is meant to be part of this so-called humour that was very common in the old days. Even dead serious companies like IBM had sayings like "you can wear any colour suit, as long as it's black". Even the installation manual contained hacker jokes like "don't force it, use a bigger hammer". Everything is not to be understood literally. Hackers of the time found these small sayings funny.

 

Today you may still have a chance to meet some of the hacker legends that occasionally lurk in these developer forums.

I was just surprised that an official document would be so informal.

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