Lynx 2020 Programming Competition

[+karri]

Xmas-themed, single screen. Got it. Which 2 weeks? My suggestion is to start on the 1st of December and end on the 14th of December. Local time. That would give 2 week-ends.

 

Voting starts on the 15th of December and ends before Xmas day (by the end of 24th of December). Local time.

 

Plus I would like to have ranking using the skating system. The majority of voters decide.

 

This means that you vote by putting the entries in order. Only complete votes that have judged all entries qualify.

Votes could be cast by entering posts on AtariAge. We could have a new topic here for that purpose. So no anonymous voting. You can vote for your own creations.

 

Perhaps we could assign letters to the games to make counting the results easier.

 

Games: A, B, C, D

 

My vote: B, A, D, C

Your vote: B, D, A, C

...

 

In this case it is obvious that B has majority of votes to win.

 

After that we look for home many judges we have, perhaps 5. The majority is (judges/2 + 1).

To find the winner we look if some game gets the majority of 1st places.

If not, we look if some game gets majority on 1-2 places.

...

 

After 1st place is solved we solve the 2nd place using the same logic.

[Nop90]

Not ranked is ok for me, just for fun. But if ranked I like the system suggested by @karri.

 

Limited time and constraints are also ok, but I leave to @Igor every decision. I hope there will be at least 5 partecipants.

Edited November 18, 2020 by Nop90

[LordKraken]

Agree, would be nice to know who is in, maybe even having some collaboration. Ranking or not I personally don't care. Theme and/or constraints should be revealed to everyone on the starting day.

[Igor]

Thanks for the suggestions, yes I think that having it open so everyone can see who is participating has been a very strong bit of feedback from the last one. In terms of ranking it would be either whatever itch.io provides or nothing, I don't think I want to over-complicate it, of course if someone still wants to put up an unofficial ranking thread here that will be fine by me!

 

I'll start putting this together, 1st December sounds good to me, that's exactly what I was thinking, though local time isn't doable, again due to itch.io, but I will make it all in GMT time, with maybe 12 hours extra on the tail end.

 

Any other comments?

[+karri]

I did not like itch.io at all...

[No One You Know]

On 11/18/2020 at 12:39 PM, Igor said:

Awesome! I have an idea for a small game too, I think the compo must be Xmas themed. Preference for a single screen type of game, but that won't be in the rules. I'm seeing if SV and eJagFest are interested in pitching in to promote it, since there are no prizes it will be easier to organise.

 

Any preference on whether it should be ranked or not? I'd like it not to be ranked, since it's just for fun.

What is the reasoning behind single screen preference?

[LordKraken]

54 minutes ago, No One You Know said:

What is the reasoning behind single screen preference?

No scrolling, less art, (generally) simpler game concepts, which in the end means smaller scale project.

Edited November 21, 2020 by LordKraken

[Igor]

Exactly, single screen games generally take less time to build...unless you're from France and can create complex games in no time at all ?

[Igor]

On 11/19/2020 at 6:00 PM, karri said:

I did not like itch.io at all...

Why not an what would make it better? There are ways of customising how the competition runs on itch.io, so I do have a little bit of control...

[LordKraken]

Quote

unless you're from France  your name is Fadest and can create complex games in no time at all 

Fixed

[+karri]

3 hours ago, Igor said:

Why not an what would make it better? There are ways of customising how the competition runs on itch.io, so I do have a little bit of control...

1. the general audience in itch.io are not at all interested in the Lynx

2. you need an account to vote

3. the game pages are completely isolated. No chat between developers or audience

4. huge amounts of spam from itch.io during and after the jam

5. bad tools to navigate on your pages

6. does not support the way of voting that I described

7. for me it was a hostile environment to navigate through. Difficult to come back to a page you had seen before

8. ads getting in the way

[No One You Know]

On 11/21/2020 at 7:18 PM, LordKraken said:

No scrolling, less art, (generally) simpler game concepts, which in the end means smaller scale project.

 

On 11/21/2020 at 10:22 PM, Igor said:

Exactly, single screen games generally take less time to build...unless you're from France and can create complex games in no time at all ?

Yeah, I understand they are simpler so everyone themselves would prefer to stick to that, but not sure why that would be a competition preference if you know what I mean (I feel like I can't speak english properly anymore even though it's my first language). I don't quite get the France joke, I'm sorry to be awkward.

23 hours ago, karri said:

1. the general audience in itch.io are not at all interested in the Lynx

2. you need an account to vote

3. the game pages are completely isolated. No chat between developers or audience

4. huge amounts of spam from itch.io during and after the jam

5. bad tools to navigate on your pages

6. does not support the way of voting that I described

7. for me it was a hostile environment to navigate through. Difficult to come back to a page you had seen before

8. ads getting in the way

Yeah before signing up I felt like it would be something that I would probably never use ever again. But it's too late for me now, I've registered and done nothing at all, haha.

[42bs]

3 hours ago, No One You Know said:

 

Yeah, I understand they are simpler so everyone themselves would prefer to stick to that, but not sure why that would be a competition preference if you know what I mean (I feel like I can't speak english properly

anymore even though it's my first language).

Like in most competitions: Set limits, so it is easier to compare. Else you get comments like: "Nice demo, but the other one has side scrolling which makes it better."

(That's why I did only 256b and 128b compos: My GFX and SFX talent is just sufficient for single pixels and beeps ? )

 

Quote

I don't quite get the France joke, I'm sorry to be awkward.

Insider joke.

 

[agradeneu]

46 minutes ago, 42bs said:

Like in most competitions: Set limits, so it is easier to compare. Else you get comments like: "Nice demo, but the other one has side scrolling which makes it better."

(That's why I did only 256b and 128b compos: My GFX and SFX talent is just sufficient for single pixels and beeps ? )

 

Insider joke.

 

Well, side scrolling takes some coding skills to pull off, and GFX takes some artistic skills   

Its probably better to establish categories for the entries  than to restrict everything to a bare minimum. In the end we want to see interesting games, which takes combined skills of a team , but not just a coders contest, where it just matters who could pull off the most efficient code.

[LordKraken]

I agree @agradeneu,  but with a scope of only 2 weeks, nobody is going to code wyvern tales 2, that's not the point here. Also, I think having more limitation can be interesting from a gfx perspective too

[Fadest]

6 hours ago, No One You Know said:

I don't quite get the France joke, I'm sorry to be awkward.

Lynx coding is just like making cars, if you want quick and dirty but not so cheap, just ask frenchs.

 

About the contest, having limitations is a great idea, especially for a time-constraint contest.

In french AC coding, we usually have the theme some weeks before the contest, and a special rule at the beginning. The contest last only 30 hours.

And special rule can be sometimes a game changer if you thought too much about your game before, like having a scrolling, or multiplayer game (far easier on TV console rather than portable), G&W look, ...

These kind of constraints in contests also enable creativity, of thinking outside the box in limited time and sometimes give some crazy experiments (like a multiplayer escape game for 4 players, with 3 Lynx for 3 agents, an Atari ST as database, an Oric Atmos as the bomb detonator - but no network protocol between them, just communication).

[+karri]

I already have my game idea. But the platform is still not decided. I really love Vulkan on my brand new Raspberry Pi 400. Here you can see some compilations done by me. The VulkanVenus has a framerate of 47 fps. While Karri walking is 231 fps. I just love Vulkan.

The Atari Lynx is a long time friend. I kind of like the idea to write a game for it as well. But...

Naah... Who cares about resolution, colours and 3D anyway.

This image is not from me. It is a French lady Marie Antoinette. Before she lost her head.
I just went through a Blender tutorial by Danny Mac. Pretty cool stuff.

 

[Igor]

If you can get Vulcan running on Lynx Karri... ?

[Turbo Laser Lynx]

3 hours ago, LordKraken said:

I agree @agradeneu,  but with a scope of only 2 weeks, nobody is going to code wyvern tales 2

3 hours ago, Fadest said:

Lynx coding is just like making cars, if you want quick and dirty but not so cheap, just ask frenchs.

Lol!

2 hours ago, karri said:

I really love Vulkan on my brand new Raspberry Pi 400.

Uuu! I like that the Rpi400 is a step in the direction of old school home computers with built in keyboard and all! Is the cart programmer compatible with the RPi4/400 too? I would seriously consider getting one in that case.
 

Quote

The Atari Lynx is a long time friend. I kind of like the idea to write a game for it as well. But...

Naah... Who cares about resolution, colours and 3D anyway.

My five cents about game development for modern systems: I'd say it's more fulfilling trying to create games for retro systems, at least your not completely invisible and will get a bit of thanks and feedback. With games for new platforms no one will know they exist unless you have a marketing budget of a miiiilliooon dollars. I guess there are some "one in a million" rising stars when -everyone- would know your game, but over all I think the experience is much more lonely.

Of course you could put it up on for example the tigsource forums, but that's no different from being on here, mostly creators chatting and hanging out with other creators. Also the mind numbing levels of perfection "demanded" from new games almost ruins the fun of developing them in the first place, you get a ton of shit much easier for slight imperfections, which is a view I don't agree to. All the best music, movies, games etc. have some imperfection, it makes things human. Thinking about digital drawing, and all the tools used for making the art looking like you'd drawn it on real paper with real brushes, and printing halftones effects etc. Also in music, making stuff sounding analog. Vinyl and tape effects etc.etc.

Edited November 23, 2020 by Turbo Laser Lynx

[LordKraken]

1 hour ago, Turbo Laser Lynx said:

All the best music, movies, games etc. have some imperfection, it makes things human.

Totally agree with that, that's also a way to differentiate art from products imo.

[42bs]

24 minutes ago, LordKraken said:

Totally agree with that, that's also a way to differentiate art from products imo.

? Then I have more "art" than products in my house.

[LordKraken]

Well aren't you an artist? a bit artist at least?

[+karri]

6 hours ago, Igor said:

If you can get Vulcan running on Lynx Karri... ?

Hmm. It should not be so complicated. How many geometry shaders, fragment shaders, tessellation shaders did the Lynx have?

Has anyone ported Nanite and Lumen to the Lynx already?
Is there perhaps a few tensor cores lurking in Suzy?

So many questions...

 

But seriously. At PRGE I met a few artists who had spent ages to model the mouse in a game and spent hours to bend the whiskers to be exactly right. In the final game you can see the mouse for about 3 seconds in the intro. In a corner of the screen. So the job may not give much satisfaction after all...

[No One You Know]

13 hours ago, 42bs said:

Like in most competitions: Set limits, so it is easier to compare. Else you get comments like: "Nice demo, but the other one has side scrolling which makes it better."

(That's why I did only 256b and 128b compos: My GFX and SFX talent is just sufficient for single pixels and beeps ? )

 

Insider joke.

 

Ah yes, now you put it that way it makes perfect sense.

 

10 hours ago, Fadest said:

Lynx coding is just like making cars, if you want quick and dirty but not so cheap, just ask frenchs.

 

About the contest, having limitations is a great idea, especially for a time-constraint contest.

In french AC coding, we usually have the theme some weeks before the contest, and a special rule at the beginning. The contest last only 30 hours.

And special rule can be sometimes a game changer if you thought too much about your game before, like having a scrolling, or multiplayer game (far easier on TV console rather than portable), G&W look, ...

These kind of constraints in contests also enable creativity, of thinking outside the box in limited time and sometimes give some crazy experiments (like a multiplayer escape game for 4 players, with 3 Lynx for 3 agents, an Atari ST as database, an Oric Atmos as the bomb detonator - but no network protocol between them, just communication).

Oh hahaha! "Modern" French cars at least I suppose.

Yes that makes sense also. Thanks.

10 hours ago, karri said:

I already have my game idea. But the platform is still not decided. I really love Vulkan on my brand new Raspberry Pi 400. Here you can see some compilations done by me. The VulkanVenus has a framerate of 47 fps. While Karri walking is 231 fps. I just love Vulkan.

 

The Atari Lynx is a long time friend. I kind of like the idea to write a game for it as well. But...

Naah... Who cares about resolution, colours and 3D anyway.

This image is not from me. It is a French lady Marie Antoinette. Before she lost her head.
I just went through a Blender tutorial by Danny Mac. Pretty cool stuff.

 

I have always wondered why there is no RPi demoscene. Of course demos are less popular for modern platforms but there are still demos for mdoern PCs aren't there? Mostly stuff like what elaborate stuff you can do in 4KB of code. RPi is a standardised platform, much less capable than a bang up to date high end PC even if it is still in 6th gen VGC territory, but it can still output video at 1080P60, much higher than what it would usually be comfortable rendering at, so there is still room for stuff that can impress people (someone showed me a video of some spiderman game on PS5 the other day and I couldn't tell that from what a PS4 game would look like, or one for PS3 either, though maybe less jaggies? So I don't really know what you could do for them that could wow anyone more than the normal software without being the kind of out there thinker that should be researching quantum physics or designing 4D shapes or something instead. I am blown back by Shin'en games on the Wii U though). And of course its cheap and plentiful (modern day ZX spectrum, even without the built in keyboard, despite having not transformed into a games console), and apparently it has barely any BIOS and just runs any code straight off the SD card, just like a cartridge based VGC even if the SD card isn't actually in conventional address space. There are a few demos, but not many at all. One of the like i think, two that exist, that is called Uranus dreams or something, comes as some LNX file (short for linux?) that I have no clue what to do with, Raspbian doesn't run it, but recognises the filename extension to be used for Atari Lynx ROMs funnily enough. The x86 Linux versions use the same kind of file too. And it doesn't specify that they are for any specific distros.

 

I would have liked the idea of this 400 a few months ago, when I still thought that a modern PC cased in a keyboard was a good idea (now I still think it is a cool idea, but not a good one), but since then I came to terms with the fact that it is pointless, and that it makes more sense for everything to be modular.

[agradeneu]

Iam not participating, but here are my 2 cents:

 

- rules should provide a fair compo, but not artificially restrict or diminish variety and diversity. Also harsh restrictions that benefit certain abilities while ignoring others is rather unfair.

 

- straight ports of existing fullfledged/professionally done games are unfair IMO, especially if large parts of code and graphics are taken/copied/ripped form a source, sometimes even without permission. Its also not very creative to say the least. 1:1 Ports should not be part of a compo. As much as I am impressed by MK Lynx, it was just not a fair entry at all, but there are other examples too.