TPavloff Posted November 16, 2020 Share Posted November 16, 2020 13 hours ago, TPavloff said: I've tried three different USB cables known to work with other devices without success. Hmmm . . . There's just nothing showing in the dropdown menu. And now I've tried it on another PC. And I've tried both the x86 and x64 flavors, just to see. At this point, the content of the firmware update is beside the point . . . I just want the mystery solved! Except the longer the mystery persists, the longer I can delay doing actual work. I'm legitimately torn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mozzwald Posted November 16, 2020 Author Share Posted November 16, 2020 3 hours ago, TPavloff said: I've tried three different USB cables known to work with other devices without success. Hmmm . . . There's just nothing showing in the dropdown menu. There was at least one user who tried more than 5 cables before one worked, so YMMV. Check in device manager to make sure it's not showing up there too. It could be bad hardware too, but somebody put firmware on it with a USB cable before you received it so, :shrug:. You can also try to force the FujiNet into flash mode by holding Button A when you plug it in (or turning on the switch). All 3 LED's should be dimly lit if it's in flash mode. This won't help if it's not detected by the computer tho since the USB to Serial chip is always powered when connected to USB and should be detected. On a side note, this thread was intended to be a discussion about FujiNet hardware design and not really for troubleshooting. Perhaps we should make a new thread for that. Not trying to single you out, there has been quite a bit of unrelated content in this thread as of late: inappropriate animated gifs, BBS talk, firmware compilation, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TPavloff Posted November 16, 2020 Share Posted November 16, 2020 It's just not detected by the computer, even device manager. It's getting power, so that part is working. I've tried all the USB cables I have, so I'm just gonna shrug, too, and ride with what I have. It still works and is amazing. The S.A.M. disk swap announcement is what I was hoping for, but I guess I can count to 8 so it's not a huge deal. Thanks so much for your time on this. I really do appreciate it. And sorry for the mis-use of this topic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mozzwald Posted November 16, 2020 Author Share Posted November 16, 2020 8 minutes ago, TPavloff said: The S.A.M. disk swap announcement is what I was hoping for, but I guess I can count to 8 so it's not a huge deal. Disk announcements have been in the firmware for a while. If it's available in your firmware, the option to enable it will be in the web interface. Point your browser to http://fujinet (or the ip/hostname of your fujinet). You should contact your vendor about the USB issue if you can't get it figured out. 11 minutes ago, TPavloff said: And sorry for the mis-use of this topic. No worries! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMontezuma Posted November 20, 2020 Share Posted November 20, 2020 On 8/4/2020 at 11:43 PM, mozzwald said: Here is a quick run down of the issue regarding FujiNet and the 1088XEL system originally described in the FujiNet Troubleshooting thread. FujiNet fails to boot properly on the 1088XEL due to the internal SIO2PC/Sparkfun FTDI FT232R that resides on the SIO bus which has no open collector buffer or diode on the DATAIN line. @mytek explains it well: One way to fix the issue is by adding a Schottky diode to the Sparkfun board by cutting the TX trace and soldering a SMD diode in place like @Mr Robot has done. A diode with a low forward voltage is recommended (PMEG2010ER, BAT60AE6327HTSA1, MBR120VLSFT3G). I realize this is not an option for everyone so I will investigate using an open drain buffer on the next batch of FujiNets instead of the currently used diode. This should remedy the issue without needing to modify the 1088XEL. In addition to this, there have been reports of FujiNet not working with the Lotharek SIO Splitter/Hub which I suspect is a similar issue. @DrVenkman or @Mr Robot do you happen to have one of those? There is one more option. I completely removed the "internal SIO2PC/Sparkfun FTDI FT232R" from my 1088XEL. Fujinet works. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DrVenkman Posted November 21, 2020 Share Posted November 21, 2020 3 hours ago, TheMontezuma said: There is one more option. I completely removed the "internal SIO2PC/Sparkfun FTDI FT232R" from my 1088XEL. Fujinet works. So ... remove one of the design features of the platform for FujiNet compatibility? Um, okay. Seems a lot like deciding to remove your legs because the pants you bought don't fit, but whatever floats your boat. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMontezuma Posted November 21, 2020 Share Posted November 21, 2020 7 hours ago, DrVenkman said: remove one of the design features If design is poor, - why not ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dropcheck Posted November 21, 2020 Share Posted November 21, 2020 (edited) Not sure if it was a design flaw in the 1088XEL since other devices prior to the Fujinet's existence worked without issue. Sometimes it's a combination of two different hardware created years apart that combine weirdly to cause conflict. The resistor fix on the SIO2PC should have corrected the issue without removal, maintaining the features of the SIO2PC . But that choice is up to you. ? Edited November 21, 2020 by Dropcheck 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DrVenkman Posted November 21, 2020 Share Posted November 21, 2020 3 hours ago, TheMontezuma said: If design is poor, - why not ? Because there’s no indication the “design is poor.” If anything, one could argue that FujiNet’s design needs tweaking for compatibility with other devices on the bus, just as SDrive-MAX’s original design did. But hey, if you’d rather cut off your legs rather than let out the pants, that’s up to you - personally I don’t want to cripple my 1088XEL. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMontezuma Posted November 21, 2020 Share Posted November 21, 2020 1 hour ago, Dropcheck said: Not sure if it was a design flaw in the 1088XEL since other devices prior to the Fujinet's existence worked without issue. I have a SIO2SD/PC combo device from @santosp which works with all other Atari computers I have, but does not work with 1088XEL. After removal of the "internal SIO2PC", both Fujinet and the device from Panos started to work. 1 hour ago, Dropcheck said: The resistor fix on the SIO2PC should have corrected the issue without removal, maintaining the features of the SIO2PC . But that choice is up to you. ? I will try the fix. That's why I actually removed the Sparkfun board in the first place But if it doesn't - I don't care too much - nowadays SIO2PC/USB cables are very compact and cheap, so it is not a big difference to use a standard USB cable or a SIO2PC/USB cable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+mytek Posted November 21, 2020 Share Posted November 21, 2020 As the creator of the 1088XEL, I concur that the omission of an inexpensive diode to the SIO2PC interface circuit is a failing on my part, and definitely agree that it is a design flaw. Yes in a lot of cases it doesn't matter, but in the grand scheme of things the internal SIO2PC could have been more perfect having the inline diode or some other form of isolation (LS07, ect.). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMontezuma Posted November 21, 2020 Share Posted November 21, 2020 I didn't mean to criticize the 1088XEL. Yesterday I installed the Sophia2 into mine and I'm very happy with it. I resolved the Fujinet compatibility issue by removing the internal SIO2PC, since it is not a "must have" feature for me and if a diode fix works - it will come back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+mytek Posted November 21, 2020 Share Posted November 21, 2020 6 minutes ago, TheMontezuma said: I didn't mean to criticize the 1088XEL. Yesterday I installed the Sophia2 into mine and I'm very happy with it. I resolved the Fujinet compatibility issue by removing the internal SIO2PC, since it is not a "must have" feature for me and if a diode fix works - it will come back. I didn't take it as criticism. It's an accepted fact that the diode is needed for certain circumstances, and if I had a time machine, it would have been there from the get go . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Robot Posted November 21, 2020 Share Posted November 21, 2020 7 minutes ago, TheMontezuma said: if a diode fix works - it will come back. That diode fix, fixed the problem for me. Nice to see that you also socketed your FTDI board. The instructions said to solder it in using pin headers but I just couldn't bring myself to do that. I'm glad I was able to unplug it for testing. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZuluGula Posted November 21, 2020 Share Posted November 21, 2020 Just now, mytek said: I didn't take it as criticism. It's an accepted fact that the diode is needed for certain circumstances, and if I had a time machine, it would have been there from the get go . Would it be a lot of work to release a updated version of 1088XEL pcb with added diode? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+mytek Posted November 21, 2020 Share Posted November 21, 2020 Just now, ZuluGula said: Would it be a lot of work to release a updated version of 1088XEL pcb with added diode? Probably not. More a matter of me taking the time away from whatever else I'm doing. For now I'll put a pin in it . 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZuluGula Posted November 21, 2020 Share Posted November 21, 2020 15 minutes ago, mytek said: Probably not. More a matter of me taking the time away from whatever else I'm doing. For now I'll put a pin in it . I understand the time issue and urge to develop new things. On the other hand 1088XEL is not going away anytime soon, so it would be nice if it was still supported. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+mytek Posted November 21, 2020 Share Posted November 21, 2020 On 11/21/2020 at 11:07 AM, ZuluGula said: I understand the time issue and urge to develop new things. On the other hand 1088XEL is not going away anytime soon, so it would be nice if it was still supported. It's a very minor issue that doesn't affect all that many people, so this makes it a relatively low priority for me. However just because the XEL is behind me, doesn't mean I've abandoned it, and this issue will be addressed at some point. With the 1088XEL being the one and only alternative Atari 8-bit motherboard with a full design release, and although the ExpressPCB file format is a proprietary format without gerber export, I have a program that'll create gerber files from it (must use the Classic version of the ExpressPCB design program - not the PLUS version). If someone ambitious wishes to download that program and make modifications, I would be willing to convert the new design into gerbers. Since this has been released as open source, the new gerbers would also be expected to see a public release as well. Although I use a slightly dated version of the ExpressPCB software, I'll do a download of the latest Classic version on their website and test it to be sure it works with my gerber export program, and report back here on the results of that test. Edit: I just tested the latest version of the ExpressPCB Classic (Version 7.9.0) and it does appear to be good to go with my gerber export program. For full design confirmation there is also a companion shareware program called xCheck that works beautifully with the ExpressPCB Classic suite. Edit2: Here's a link to the 1088XEL ExpressPCB files: https://ataribits.weebly.com/uploads/5/8/8/6/58865739/1088xel_v1_1_pcb_production_design.zip 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMontezuma Posted November 23, 2020 Share Posted November 23, 2020 On 8/4/2020 at 11:43 PM, mozzwald said: Not that beautiful, but also works I turned the diode upside down, so the pads were showing in my direction. Before that I unsoldered the leg of the IC and bent it up. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
triegle Posted November 25, 2020 Share Posted November 25, 2020 On 11/16/2020 at 2:27 PM, TPavloff said: It's just not detected by the computer, even device manager. It's getting power, so that part is working. I've tried all the USB cables I have, so I'm just gonna shrug, too, and ride with what I have. It still works and is amazing. The S.A.M. disk swap announcement is what I was hoping for, but I guess I can count to 8 so it's not a huge deal. Thanks so much for your time on this. I really do appreciate it. And sorry for the mis-use of this topic. For those who may be experiencing this frustrating problem I can confirm that it likely the USB cable. Of the thirteen cables I found around my house only three would connect my FujiNet to a PC to update the firmware. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dropcheck Posted December 18, 2020 Share Posted December 18, 2020 Any official info on hardware based fixes for the SIO/ESP32 interface problem? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atari8guy Posted December 18, 2020 Share Posted December 18, 2020 On 11/25/2020 at 9:48 AM, triegle said: For those who may be experiencing this frustrating problem I can confirm that it likely the USB cable. Of the thirteen cables I found around my house only three would connect my FujiNet to a PC to update the firmware. The only cable I have that works for me came with my Amazon Kindle. I don't know if that helps suss out what kind of cables work or not... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Robot Posted December 18, 2020 Share Posted December 18, 2020 Oddly enough I use a kindle cable on mine too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mozzwald Posted December 19, 2020 Author Share Posted December 19, 2020 7 hours ago, Dropcheck said: Any official info on hardware based fixes for the SIO/ESP32 interface problem? This is the v1.3 schematic which has been tested working with multiple devices on the bus including a Happy drive and at high speeds. The only issue noted so far is the 'off' SIO sound with any other SIO device on the bus (yet everything works). The sound is normal with FujiNet alone. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FifthPlayer Posted December 19, 2020 Share Posted December 19, 2020 I assume from the firmware point of view the 1.0 and 1.3 boards are identical? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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