RGB/YPbPr Intellivision Thoughts

[+KylJoy]

On 9/27/2022 at 6:54 PM, EdgeFaction said:

@the_crayon_king and others - what cable do you personally use or recommend that has an 8-pin mini-din and 5 RCAs (for Component specifically but RGB is fine too) for use with Baked Potato.

I like the 8-pin mini-DINs.  They are sort-a the standard for RGB modded consoles.  There are several places to get a good one.  I like RGC - Worlds No. 1 for Retro Gaming Console Accessories and SCART Cables (retrogamingcables.co.uk).  I also like Insurrection Industries cables in general but can't remember if I bought a general 8-pin RGB cable there.

 

I won't deal with Retro Access again since they ripped me off.  They still owe me $40 or a replacement cable.  Also, their ordering process is absolutely horrible.  Stay clear of them.

[+-^CrossBow^-]

2 hours ago, KylJoy said:

I like the 8-pin mini-DINs.  They are sort-a the standard for RGB modded consoles.  There are several places to get a good one.  I like RGC - Worlds No. 1 for Retro Gaming Console Accessories and SCART Cables (retrogamingcables.co.uk).  I also like Insurrection Industries cables in general but can't remember if I bought a general 8-pin RGB cable there.

 

I won't deal with Retro Access again since they ripped me off.  They still owe me $40 or a replacement cable.  Also, their ordering process is absolutely horrible.  Stay clear of them.

Insurrection does not offer 8-pin SCART cables. They only ever offered 9-pin which, is another reason I mainly went with 9-pin in all of my personal installs and 9-pin is mostly what I've installed into consoles mainly because their cables were easy enough to get and they are in the US.

 

[the_crayon_king]

I usually recommend retro gaming cables: this one specifically for any of the RGB mods I have been doing.

They mold the din end of the cable (which has failed on other cables that press together). 

I don't think they add resistors to Sync (which is what I would like to see every cable do).

Fully shielded; so audio interference should be less of an issue. 

 

You can get by with cheaper domestic cables; but given the option I usually go with them.

 

 

[EdgeFaction]

Anyone picking up one of @the_crayon_king video mods will absolutely love the board he has created that provides a way to surface mount a Mini-Din where the RF out jack was, and to mount/locate over the same area that the RF adaptor was in! 

 

Thanks Crayon King for all your do an all your help!

 

[EdgeFaction]

Some more installed pictures. I pulled audio from the bottom (more out of necessity since I had already soldered the big board down) and connected the Palette Select to the channel switch as suggested by CrossFire on his videos. This is a YPbPr (Component) install so I have a 8-pin mini-din breakout that has the Red/Green/Blue for Video and Red/White for Audio all in one cable so it has a special pin-out. I think the best way to do this install also as suggested by CrossFire is to leave the 8-pin as a standard Sega Style RGB out, install the included switch to go between RGB and Component, and install a TRSS for Component and potentially another for Audio or just do the RCAs (there isn't a ton of room on the Intellivision IIs). Anyway, super happy with this kit. 

 

On another note I find these early Intellivision II boards really interesting. I've seen another like it, specifically on the RetroRGB website. Look at all those resistors on the Sound chip! Of note it is a AY-3-8194 rather than the AY-3-8196 Also there is a very convenient opening below the Player 1 DB9 for running cables through. 

 

Edited October 22, 2022 by EdgeFaction
More detail.

[the_crayon_king]

@EdgeFaction Glad it works. Nice install btw.

 

I'll attach the gerber for those interested; there are other din connectors that output YPbPr I may put one on the other side instead of the 9 pin din; or maybe S-Video IDK. 

Gerber_PCB_RF replacement 8 PIN - YPBPR.zip

[EdgeFaction]

Thank you. S-Video would be a cool option for your new chip for those just looking for S-Video where the RF was and RCA/TRSS for composite.

[EdgeFaction]

My RetroTink 5X Pro came over this last week and I'm excited to say Baked_Potato with YPbPr enabled looks beautiful with component input - no flickering, sharp pixels. The only strange thing that may be RetroTink related is the rounded corner on the top left and some missing pixels on the bottom row. None of which is really noticeable during game play.

 

[the_crayon_king]

4 minutes ago, EdgeFaction said:

My RetroTink 5X Pro came over this last week and I'm excited to say Baked_Potato with YPbPr enabled looks beautiful with component input - no flickering, sharp pixels. The only strange thing that may be RetroTink related is the rounded corner on the top left and some missing pixels on the bottom row. None of which is really noticeable during game play.

 

Something related to how it is handling Vsync is my guess? 

I would wager that playing around with the 5X's settings would fix it?

 

The reason I believe it is related to vsync is because the aberrations are at the top and bottom (which is around where vsync is).  

 

There were further corrections (narrow equalization pulses and inverted hsync inside vsync) that I could have done. 

However, the option for an extra color palette was what I went with since I didn't have room for both. 

 

If at some point in the future I find a more appropriate CPLD/FPGA then maybe I could fit everything. 

 

 

Can anyone else confirm if this happens on RGBs input to the 5X? I wonder if the issue is specific to its handling of YPbPr.

 

[EdgeFaction]

I updated the RetroTink 5X Firmware to the latest version and the top rounding issue seems to be gone, the bottom pixels is still there and I can't seem to find a setting to remove them, though I'm admittingly new to the device. However I can make some adjustments as a bit of the top is hidden and essentially just move to where that section isn't visible, it almost doesn't appear to be part of the usable display area anyway. Again there is no noticeable issue in display gameplay - smooth as silk.

[MasterWelch]

Will this work on intellivision model 1?

[the_crayon_king]

22 minutes ago, MasterWelch said:

Will this work on intellivision model 1?

Yes. Model one or two Pal or NTSC, SEARs model etc.  

[goldendark007]

Hello all! I purchased this kit off eBay a little while back and attempted the install last night. Picture looked sharp for the most part (some interference is present occasionally - I did leave in the RF unit, not sure if this is causing it) but the colors are completely off. I'm away now til Monday evening and can't share photos of the actual mod til then, but I was curious if anyone could tell what is wrong just from these photos? My guess is I have a couple of the RGB lines crossed (also, I realize the image is dark - I am using a csync wired 8pin from Retro-Access and am too lazy to remove resistors). The game being played is "Horse Racing". You can see some of the interference in the border of the last image. 

 

Thanks in advance.

 

 

 

Edited December 29, 2022 by goldendark007

[+-^CrossBow^-]

16 minutes ago, goldendark007 said:

Hello all! I purchased this kit off eBay a little while back and attempted the install last night. Picture looked sharp for the most part (some interference is present occasionally - I did leave in the RF unit, not sure if this is causing it) but the colors are completely off. I'm away now til Monday evening and can't share photos of the actual mod til then, but I was curious if anyone could tell what is wrong just from these photos? My guess is I have a couple of the RGB lines crossed (also, I realize the image is dark - I am using a csync wired 8pin from Retro-Access and am too lazy to remove resistors). The game being played is "Horse Racing". You can see some of the interference in the border of the last image. 

 

Thanks in advance.

 

 

 

There are a couple of things. As you said, double check your wiring connections to be sure everything is connected where it should be. Another possibility is that your C2 variable capacitor near the clock crystal might have gotten bumped as it does effect the color output of the video in addition to adjusting the clock frequency.

 

But I do think that you have a week or loose connection somewhere. Seems the green is what might be missing.

 

[the_crayon_king]

Uh, so I messed up on the 8 pin side of the RF replacement thing. It's not exactly my fault since the datasheet and the footprint don't match.

I built from the footprint. When it is the datasheet that is correct. I have no idea where I got the source footprint.

 

Notice on the right picture the 3 and 5 pins are reversed from the datasheet.

There is a lesson here about building your own footprints.

So basically, 5V and Sync were switched around on the 8 pin side.

The 9 pin side should be functional as is.

 

I just put ten of these things together...

 

I made minor changes to the board and I may make minor changes in the future by pushing the din as far up as I can get it.

As soon as I find my caliper I will do that. Until then the fixed board is attached.

 

Gerber_PCB_RF replacement 8 PIN AND 9 PIN_2023-01-04.zip

[+-^CrossBow^-]

1 hour ago, the_crayon_king said:

Uh, so I messed up on the 8 pin side of the RF replacement thing. It's not exactly my fault since the datasheet and the footprint don't match.

I built from the footprint. When it is the datasheet that is correct. I have no idea where I got the source footprint.

 

Notice on the right picture the 3 and 5 pins are reversed from the datasheet.

There is a lesson here about building your own footprints.

So basically, 5V and Sync were switched around on the 8 pin side.

The 9 pin side should be functional as is.

 

I just put ten of these things together...

 

I made minor changes to the board and I may make minor changes in the future by pushing the din as far up as I can get it.

As soon as I find my caliper I will do that. Until then the fixed board is attached.

 

Gerber_PCB_RF replacement 8 PIN AND 9 PIN_2023-01-04.zip 43.21 kB · 0 downloads

Oh...so the PCB breakouts you were providing weren't correct then? I don't recall having an issue with the earlier ones? But I've been using my own PCB breakouts I designed for the 8pin dins when the originals I had didn't have the +5 on them.

 

 

[the_crayon_king]

@-^CrossBow^- this is the RF replacment for the model 2 that has the issue.

:

 

No normal 8 pin din that comes with the kit is fine.

[+-^CrossBow^-]

13 minutes ago, the_crayon_king said:

@-^CrossBow^- this is the RF replacment for the model 2 that has the issue.

:

 

No normal 8 pin din that comes with the kit is fine.

Okay, that makes sense. I hadn't tried to use any of these so I guess that is why I hadn't encountered an issue. Thanks for clarifying!

 

[goldendark007]

I just wanted to pop back in and say that my issues have been resolved. I retraced all my wires to the 8-pin PCB and everything was wired up correctly, but I still had the problem. Switching the R G B channels, as suggested by Crayon King, fixed everything right up. Also, using the OSSC at the settings suggested greatly improved noise. Turned out to be a great gift for my friend (and I already pulled out my Inty to mod for myself). Thanks again for the help - super quick to respond to every private message and worked with me on here and over eBay.

 

Thanks again! This mod is fantastic. Pics are included (the two different title screens are the two palette options using the switch). Also, check the CRT pics for comparison to original RF out. I WILL be getting more for other consoles!