Atari 800 VBXE installation

[+DrVenkman]

11 minutes ago, Stephen said:

I am pretty sure you have to have an Alterra blaster and the appropriate cable to update the CPLD on these.

https://www.amazon.com/waveshare-USB-Blaster-V2-Programmers/dp/B08CV3L6LF

Got one of those around somewhere, too (had to update the CPLD in my Dragonfly Cart a few months ago). Does it require that garbage, bloatware Quartus software to update the Incognito jed? Ugh. 

[+Stephen]

57 minutes ago, DrVenkman said:

Got one of those around somewhere, too (had to update the CPLD in my Dragonfly Cart a few months ago). Does it require that garbage, bloatware Quartus software to update the Incognito jed? Ugh. 

Pretty sure it does.  I've actually updated both my laptop and my desktop machine since the last time too - I don't think I have it installed anywhere.  Might have to make a VM image for such purposes.

[candle]

you need xilinx tools, not the altera

[flashjazzcat]

I'll go through this in the video too if it helps 

[spookt]

5 hours ago, DrVenkman said:

Got one of those around somewhere, too (had to update the CPLD in my Dragonfly Cart a few months ago). Does it require that garbage, bloatware Quartus software to update the Incognito jed? Ugh. 

Is this the same cable and software used for updating the JED on the Ultimate 1Mb? 

[Beeblebrox]

This is what I bought last year to flash the experimental Jed at the time on my Incognito:

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/203859387905

Xilinx Platform USB Download Cable Jtag Program FPGA CPLD C-Mod XC2C64A M102

FYI I used the flat connector to individual dupont connectors cable that came with the programmer and the following pinout which is the same as the U1MB:

 

 

From Xilinx to UM1B (and incognito) 
2 - 1 VCC
3 - 2 GND
4 - 6 TMS
6 - 3 TCK
8 - 4 TDO
10 - 5 TDI

 

I've just quickly popped this blog entry with a set of instructions/steps I used at the time which may help. 

https://forums.atariage.com/blogs/entry/18373-how-i-flashed-cpld-chip-on-incognito-with-latest-tweaked-experimental-jed/

 

Please Note:

Please read the posts above as well (especially the advice from Candle and Fjc in this instance), but I thought posting what I did at the time may help.

The flashing procedure itself of the then final experimental Jed at the time worked on my own incognito but for me the Jed was unstable and I reverted back to the original Jed, where all instability disappeared.

 

Edit:just dug out my programmer which still has the cable (a dupont 8 header to single connectors)  still plugged in:

 

 

 

Edited December 15, 2022 by Beeblebrox

[flashjazzcat]

3 hours ago, spookt said:

Is this the same cable and software used for updating the JED on the Ultimate 1Mb? 

Yep. If you have what's needed to update U1MB, you have what you need for Incognito.

[+DrVenkman]

 

2 hours ago, flashjazzcat said:

Yep. If you have what's needed to update U1MB, you have what you need for Incognito.

Does it require the Quartus software? If so, is there a specific version? The reason I ask is, when I updated the CPLD in my Dragonfly Cart (for the 7800), it required an older version from several years ago for some reason. 

[Beeblebrox]

10 minutes ago, DrVenkman said:

 

Does it require the Quartus software? If so, is there a specific version? The reason I ask is, when I updated the CPLD in my Dragonfly Cart (for the 7800), it required an older version from several years ago for some reason. 

Not sure re Quartus software ..

 

So as per my link above earlier this morning to the blog post I used the following at the time for my Windows 10 64-bit - lappy:

....

Downloaded the 14.5 version of Xilinx ISE design software  (16GB) (includes iMpact software):

https://www.xilinx.com/support/download/index.html/content/xilinx/en/downloadNav/vivado-design-tools/archive-ise.html

 

version 14.7 kept crashing so I tried 14.5

 

Installed the webpackage and ISE design suite

 

....

 

 

 

Edited December 15, 2022 by Beeblebrox

[flashjazzcat]

19 minutes ago, DrVenkman said:

Does it require the Quartus software? If so, is there a specific version? The reason I ask is, when I updated the CPLD in my Dragonfly Cart (for the 7800), it required an older version from several years ago for some reason.

I used the Xilinx ISE Webpack 14.7 on a Windows 7 VM:

 

https://www.xilinx.com/downloadNav/vivado-design-tools/archive-ise.html

 

Quartus is something quite different from what's needed for the Xilinx CPLDs. YMMV, though, because Xilinx haven't updated this software much in recent years, and it flat-out doesn't work with Windows 11 regardless of any of the patches which enabled older builds to work with Windows 7, etc.

 

 

[candle]

xilinx discontinued all ise based products, new chips are handled with vivado, thus no new ise version

i'm using 14.7 nativly on windows 10, and patiently skip update to windows 11 each week i'm offered it

 

[flashjazzcat]

 

[candle]

nicely done!

 

one last thing to cover is VBXE VGA output capability, as this board was designed with this in mind - way for US folks to obtain easy path for RGB output as VGA capable monitors are far common compared to RGB capable ones

 

[Beeblebrox]

11 hours ago, flashjazzcat said:

 

@flashjazzcatGreat video and excellent that you cover in detail the JED flashing process that will clear it up for a lot of people asking the questions on this thread. (Those damn Xilinx Windows software quirks don't help matters).  Thanks

[candle]

personally i don't use any virtual machines for this development - it was way too much fuss for my taste, and working of this, was as Jon shown, erratic at least

so i took the path users from eevblog and have this set up on windows 10 nativly

 

here are some details about it:

https://github.com/cbureriu/xilinx-14.7-patch-for-Win10-32-64

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/fpga/guide-getting-xilinx-ise-to-work-with-windows-8-64-bit/

 

as for windows 11 i wouldn't know, as this is as good as windows 8 was in my head, and my computer is for work not to play with "windows 11 appplication" as windows update calls it every time it bothers me with "new rich features"

 

Edited December 16, 2022 by candle
additional information

[flashjazzcat]

7 hours ago, candle said:

one last thing to cover is VBXE VGA output capability, as this board was designed with this in mind - way for US folks to obtain easy path for RGB output as VGA capable monitors are far common compared to RGB capable ones

Yeah: sorry - you asked about this weeks ago, and I totally forgot about it until after the event (the second video turned out to be four times longer than I'd intended as it is). I have a decent DIN13/DB15 cable now, anyway, so I can demonstrate this at a later date, I guess. I was heavily hampered by losing six days when poorly the other week, among other things.

19 minutes ago, candle said:

personally i don't use any virtual machines for this development - it was way too much fuss for my taste, and working of this, was as Jon shown, erratic at least

so i took the path users from eevblog and have this set up on windows 10 nativly

I can't even remember what the Windows 10 experience was like with that software (although I did use it for several years), but if 14.7 works better on Windows 10 while being buggy on Windows 7, it's puzzling. I can't (won't) stay on a particular operating system just for the sake of one piece of software I use twice a year, especially when I personally have a better productivity experience with webcams and other recording equipment when using Windows 11 (yeah: I like the OS). But I might try a Windows 10 VM, and if that works better, it's job done as far as I'm concerned.

[candle]

key factor here is NOT TO use VM - every approach I had with VM were as you experienced

 

[flashjazzcat]

2 minutes ago, candle said:

key factor here is NOT TO use VM

The VM certainly causes problems with license deployment (although the software somehow continues to 'work' without it), but the quirks encountered during use in the video are identical to my experience when running it on real hardware (laptop with a clean install of Windows 7, tested immediately prior to setting up the VM). What I cannot recall is whether the experience was as bad under Windows 10.

[candle]

what i had was all kind of problems with detecting platform cable or rather not detecting it at all

 

[flashjazzcat]

4 minutes ago, candle said:

what i had was all kind of problems with detecting platform cable or rather not detecting it at all

Yep. There are dozens of forum discussions on the Internet about Xilinx cable setup issues, and VMs certainly aren't a required ingredient. The PEBCAK issue I kept running into was caused by my using a patch cable for Lattice programming, attached to the same JTAG cable I use for the Xilinx adapter, and forgetting to remove the patch cable.  But the problem with license installation (which is known and documented) is the only problem which occurred - for me, at least - on a VM which didn't also occur when running on bare metal.

[flashjazzcat]

Decided on a whim to tackle the RGB connector. I actually messed up first time around and had to take a panel from a breaker machine with a smashed case. Now I know what I'm doing, though, this will be releatively easy to do consistently.

[Beeblebrox]

I went to pcb way to treat myself to the VBXE carrier board as a Christmas prezzie to myself.

 

First time using PCBway so was a bit of a learning curve. Naively didn't realise there is a 24hr+ review period before you even get a cost. Had to abandon it when I realised it's a minimum order of 5 x boards. I engaged with the live chat where the best they could offer me was paying for the 5 x boards but only populating /assembling 1 x board. 

 

For now I've have to abandon the idea as can't afford it and obviously don't need the other 4 x unpopulated boards. 

 

Doh!! 

[spookt]

9 hours ago, Beeblebrox said:

I went to pcb way to treat myself to the VBXE carrier board as a Christmas prezzie to myself.

 

First time using PCBway so was a bit of a learning curve. Naively didn't realise there is a 24hr+ review period before you even get a cost. Had to abandon it when I realised it's a minimum order of 5 x boards. I engaged with the live chat where the best they could offer me was paying for the 5 x boards but only populating /assembling 1 x board. 

 

For now I've have to abandon the idea as can't afford it and obviously don't need the other 4 x unpopulated boards. 

 

Doh!! 

What does it work out to per board?

[Mark2008]

 

On 12/23/2022 at 2:38 PM, Beeblebrox said:

I went to pcb way to treat myself to the VBXE carrier board as a Christmas prezzie to myself.

 

First time using PCBway so was a bit of a learning curve. Naively didn't realise there is a 24hr+ review period before you even get a cost. Had to abandon it when I realised it's a minimum order of 5 x boards. I engaged with the live chat where the best they could offer me was paying for the 5 x boards but only populating /assembling 1 x board. 

 

For now I've have to abandon the idea as can't afford it and obviously don't need the other 4 x unpopulated boards. 

 

Doh!! 

 

Thanks for sharing, I've also never ordered from PBCway, and would've run into the same issue.

 

15 hours ago, spookt said:

What does it work out to per board?

 

I just put in a couple orders as a teset, as Beeblebrox said, it takes 24 hours to review, so I expect my first order to be rejected, but that, including shipping for 1 item, assembled, was $58.  And the second order was for 5 - which I hope is not going to be rejected (but I don't know), was for $118, or 1/5th of that price could be $23.60.  

 

oh this is so tempting now, but I did just start a mechanical keyboard project, and probably should hold off....ack!  too many choices!

[mimo]

On 12/23/2022 at 8:38 PM, Beeblebrox said:

I went to pcb way to treat myself to the VBXE carrier board as a Christmas prezzie to myself.

 

First time using PCBway so was a bit of a learning curve. Naively didn't realise there is a 24hr+ review period before you even get a cost. Had to abandon it when I realised it's a minimum order of 5 x boards. I engaged with the live chat where the best they could offer me was paying for the 5 x boards but only populating /assembling 1 x board. 

 

For now I've have to abandon the idea as can't afford it and obviously don't need the other 4 x unpopulated boards. 

 

Doh!! 

That's a shame, PCB way  are always more expensive than JL.